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  • #46
    Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

    Hi PlanB,

    I did try to upload the website screen captures yesterday but i kept getting time outs although fortunately it has worked today.
    There is a queue for the scanner at the moment so hope to post the Halifax letter up in about half hour.

    Thanks
    Missy
    Attached Files
    Last edited by SA Gold; 16 August 2013, 08:24.
    When Gold isn't enough, there is SA Gold! New to the forum and find the UE route a bit scary? Take a look at my diary here and judge for yourself. I am now saving the money each month that was making little difference to the balance and not a bit of difference to my credit file as a result of finding AAD.


    I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

    If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

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    • #47
      Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

      I've had a thought

      Is your property detached or are you in a terrace or a semi-detached? If so then the chimney stack could be a Party Wall issue. It may/may not also be your neighbour's mutual duty for it's upkeep in which case you could consider claiming the cost of those repairs from them. Just a thought

      Comment

      • #48
        Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

        Originally posted by missy View Post
        Hi PlanB,

        I did try to upload the website screen captures yesterday but i kept getting time outs although fortunately its worked today.
        There is a queue for the scanner at the moment so hope to post the Halifax letter up in about half hour.
        Well looking at that old website checklist it all seems pretty clear to me. The roof void should have been inspected by the surveyor's "head and shoulders" meaning he didn't have to climb into the loft to look around but he did at least have to get out of the car! He will argue that he didn't see anything untoward so didn't go any further. So it will depend on whether the FOS think that he should have seen any signs of water using his "head and shoulders" presumably with his eyes open, although it doesn't clarify that exact point

        This is about your expectations and the FOS can use it's discretion to decide that you expected that to mean a proper look. That's the point you need to emphasise.

        I think this old website screenshot is very helpful to your investigation
        Last edited by PlanB; 9 August 2013, 12:34. Reason: typos :(

        Comment

        • #49
          Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

          I don't think the old website screenshot will help you with the soggy ceiling saga which could be seen as a separate "expectation" because there is nothing in that old checklist to say that the surveyor would do anything other than a visible internal inspection. Which would require him to get out of the car of course. If you were to take this to court you would be asking for a Statement of Truth from the surveyor to confirm he picked up the keys and went inside the property. I see no harm in you asking the Halifax (via the FOS) to provide proof since you seemed pretty convinced he didn't.
          Last edited by PlanB; 9 August 2013, 12:43.

          Comment

          • #50
            Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

            Originally posted by missy View Post
            Below is the recent request from the FOS; would it be best just to reply with what the are asking (in the hope something is offered), or pursue the mortgage company? The problem with this is although i have the email from the advisor; its just a link and he doesn't actually say words to the effect "this is what you are getting".
            I can't answer that question only you can decide what would work best for you. But I don't see how withdrawing your complaint from the FOS at this late stage and pursuing the mortgage company through the courts would guarantee a better outcome. If you did that I would expect Halifax to use an in-house solicitor to defend themselves, and if the surveyor was joined into the proceedings they too would be represented by a solicitor because they would have Professional Indemnity insurance to cover any claim of negligence. It could become Missy vs. lawyers x 2

            Your complaint is currently being investigated by an Adjudicator. If you don't accept the outcome you can escalate it to an Ombudsman for a more senior overview. This typically takes a further 3 - 4 months during which time you are allowed to seek more evidence to be included in the final investigation. This would give you plenty of time to establish whether the surveyor actually got out of his car and inspected the property with his "head and shoulders" or any other part of his anatomy.
            Last edited by PlanB; 9 August 2013, 14:27. Reason: typos again :(

            Comment

            • #51
              Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

              Hi,
              Thanks for all the input, it really is appreciated. A reply came back from FOS to say the 16th is fine

              I have included the Halifax Valuation report documents (first 2) received prior to the sale. The third document is what Halifax supplied us with when we wrote to complain.

              I've just noticed the surveyor has correctly stated one bathroom and one WC on his report which makes me wonder if he did actually go in the house after all.
              I know they may be aware of the design of the house, although this may well have changed since the build.

              Thanks
              Missy
              Attached Files
              When Gold isn't enough, there is SA Gold! New to the forum and find the UE route a bit scary? Take a look at my diary here and judge for yourself. I am now saving the money each month that was making little difference to the balance and not a bit of difference to my credit file as a result of finding AAD.


              I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

              If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

              Comment

              • #52
                Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

                Originally posted by missy View Post
                A reply came back from FOS to say the 16th is fine

                . . . . I've just noticed the surveyor has correctly stated one bathroom and one WC on his report which makes me wonder if he did actually go in the house after all.
                I know they may be aware of the design of the house, although this may well have changed since the build.
                ^^^^ do you mean the surveyor incorrectly stated one bathroom and one WC on his report which is wrong, implying that he may not have been inside the property to inspect anything? Otherwise known as a *drive-by* which is common for remortgage valuations but not new purchases.

                Comment

                • #53
                  Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

                  Originally posted by planB View Post
                  ^^^^ do you mean the surveyor incorrectly stated one bathroom and one WC on his report which is wrong, implying that he may not have been inside the property to inspect anything? Otherwise known as a *drive-by* which is common for remortgage valuations but not new purchases.
                  Hi,
                  No, i mean he correctly stated there is one bathroom and one WC - which is how the house is.
                  Since i have been racking my brains about this; something else has come to mind...

                  I recall viewing the house with the estate agents and family three times before we had the keys. The loft opening was closed. I remember this because i did want to pop in the loft for a nose - to see if there was any crap left up there more than anything (some left at the bottom of the garden).

                  When we picked the keys up from the estate agents on the afternoon the contracts had been exchanged we went straight there as you do. One thing i noticed (although didn't really think anything of at the time) was the loft hatch was missing. When we begin moving our stuff in i went up there and the hatch had been placed just to the side of the opening.

                  Of course, this is just from memory and doesn't mean that it was the surveyor although because it was a repossession, there was literally nothing in the house from the previous owner and don't know of any reason the estate agents would go up there.

                  Food for thought....
                  When Gold isn't enough, there is SA Gold! New to the forum and find the UE route a bit scary? Take a look at my diary here and judge for yourself. I am now saving the money each month that was making little difference to the balance and not a bit of difference to my credit file as a result of finding AAD.


                  I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                  If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

                  Comment

                  • #54
                    Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

                    I'm glad the FOS have given you a few more days to deal with this

                    My first reaction to that report is that it's headed Halifax Valuation which I would think makes them responsible for everything and not the surveyor in legal terms.

                    The Guidance Notes will be important especially if you say they don't match what was stated on the surveyor's old website page. You read that website, you made your choice based on what you read, you paid your money expecting what you read to be what you would get, and the survey went ahead. The fact that the Halifax wrote to you after the job was completed to tell you that they had different criteria shouldn't make any difference.

                    You should make it clear to the FOS that you only bought that level of survey because you believed it would do what it said on the tin (old website). So what if the Halifax wrote to you later and said they weren't singing from the same hymn sheet as Colleys. If it was me I would tell the FOS that if you had known of the discrepancy or the fact that the roof void wouldn't be properly inspected (as per old website promise) you would have chosen the next level up of survey. You've now lost that opportunity because you've completed on the sale and subsequently found defects.

                    That Guidance Notes say "if you wish to discuss any technical aspects of this report please contact the valuer" but the surveyor's website says the valuer will not discuss anything with you. The more discrepancies the better.

                    I know it also says you have the option to request a more detailed survey (nice try!) but you would only do that if the report pointed out something which needed further investigation. For example if it said damp was noticeable you might want to get a more in depth report from a specialist. You can't be expected to order up another survey just in case the man has missed something which you haven't been told about

                    Comment

                    • #55
                      Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

                      Originally posted by planB View Post
                      I'm glad the FOS have given you a few more days to deal with this
                      Me too!

                      Originally posted by planB View Post
                      My first reaction to that report is that it's headed Halifax Valuation which I would think makes them responsible for everything and not the surveyor in legal terms.

                      The Guidance Notes will be important especially if you say they don't match what was stated on the surveyor's old website page. You read that website, you made your choice based on what you read, you paid your money expecting what you read to be what you would get, and the survey went ahead. The fact that the Halifax wrote to you after the job was completed to tell you that they had different criteria shouldn't make any difference.

                      You should make it clear to the FOS that you only bought that level of survey because you believed it would do what it said on the tin (old website). So what if the Halifax wrote to you later and said they weren't singing from the same hymn sheet as Colleys. If it was me I would tell the FOS that if you had known of the discrepancy or the fact that the roof void wouldn't be properly inspected (as per old website promise) you would have chosen the next level up of survey. You've now lost that opportunity because you've completed on the sale and subsequently found defects.

                      That Guidance Notes say "if you wish to discuss any technical aspects of this report please contact the valuer" but the surveyor's website says the valuer will not discuss anything with you. The more discrepancies the better.

                      I know it also says you have the option to request a more detailed survey (nice try!) but you would only do that if the report pointed out something which needed further investigation. For example if it said damp was noticeable you might want to get a more in depth report from a specialist. You can't be expected to order up another survey just in case the man has missed something which you haven't been told about
                      Excellent!
                      You make an excellent point that all this crap about "you had the chance for another one" - why, when there is nothing of significance on the basic one which is alledged to do just that: go in, have a nose round and if anything looks dodgy, recommend a more in-depth check.

                      I'll work on a reply on the weekend and post back. Be great if you were around to give it the once over.

                      thanks
                      Missy
                      When Gold isn't enough, there is SA Gold! New to the forum and find the UE route a bit scary? Take a look at my diary here and judge for yourself. I am now saving the money each month that was making little difference to the balance and not a bit of difference to my credit file as a result of finding AAD.


                      I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                      If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

                      Comment

                      • #56
                        Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

                        Ah ha! I've now discovered that Colleys is in fact HBOS in disguise

                        Colleys is simply a *Trading As* name of the bank. See where it says this under the picture on their website:

                        http://www.colleys.co.uk/

                        This explains why Halifax won't be critical of the surveyor because they are one of the same

                        There was a big legal case a couple of years ago on erroneous valuations by Colleys. The case is not strictly relevant to your particular situation (I think it may have got overturned on appeal) but it does show that Colleys get it wrong at times and HBOS is no stranger to litigation. You might find a way to drop this information into your FOS letter:

                        http://www.weightmans.com/library/ne...rs_-_dont.aspx

                        Comment

                        • #57
                          Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

                          Morning,

                          Sorry for the delay in replying. It's been a(nother!) busy weekend working on the house.

                          Yes, Colleys is essentially Halifax and i should have pointed that out from the start as it is relevant.

                          I think its worth dropping in the reply to FOS. What do you think about the following?


                          Dear X X X

                          Thank you for your email and providing me with more time to reply.

                          As requested i have attached a scanned copy of the roof repair receipt. You will note a second receipt for materials which were required to repair the bedroom ceiling as a result of the leaking chimney stack. There is no labour costs involved here - it is a job my boyfriend carried out.
                          As for the comments made within the email, i would like to add the following if i may.

                          On 15th November, following a telephone conversation with the mortgage advisor regarding the different surveys Halifax offered i received an email with the following link: http://www.colleys.co.uk/customer/services/compare/

                          I have re-added the screen shots of the survey at the time of choosing my survey and after the complaint was made for your viewing.
                          I made the choice of survey on the basis the roof voids were part of the inspection. I paid the fee on the belief the points listed on the website would be checked and the survey was arranged. If the checklist for the type of survey didn't specify anything and stated it was purely for the lenders protection; i would have chosen a different type.

                          I feel the Halifax's response with different criteria and "you had the option of another survey" irrelevant ; I lost that opportunity when the sale completed and subsequently found defects not listed in the report. Furthermore if the report highlighted potential defects with the roof i would have arranged a more in-depth survey. I fail to see why Halifax would expect me to order another survey just in case they have missed something which i have not been informed about.
                          Interestingly i recently found the article below about Colleys which suggests they don't always get things right:
                          http://www.weightmans.com/library/ne...rs_-_dont.aspx

                          The guidance Notes say "if you wish to discuss any technical aspects of this report please contact the valuer" but the surveyor's website says the valuer will not discuss anything with you. I find this strange as Colleys is part of the Bank of Scotland.

                          I am deeply disappointed with Halifax. I made my choice of survey on the basis of the checklist at the time of purchase on the Colleys Website. Its taken considerable time to get in the position to buy my home and feel let down from what i considered a trusted lender. If i was made aware of potential problems with the roof i would have made a revised offer to the vendor.

                          I feel they tried to disregard the complaint raised too.To re-iterate, my first letter was returned with all the attachments because they claimed they couldn't find me on their system.
                          The second was ignored with the third receiving a reply to say they didn't believe i had cause to complain disregarding the fact i had chosen that survey as a result of the checklist on the Colleys website.

                          Moving forward i would like Halifax to refund the survey fee and re-reimburse the cost of the roof repairs which i allege they failed to spot on inspection/report on. I hope this can be resolved without the time and expense of legal advice.

                          Yours faithfully,

                          Missy
                          Last edited by SA Gold; 13 August 2013, 11:30. Reason: Spelling as usual!
                          When Gold isn't enough, there is SA Gold! New to the forum and find the UE route a bit scary? Take a look at my diary here and judge for yourself. I am now saving the money each month that was making little difference to the balance and not a bit of difference to my credit file as a result of finding AAD.


                          I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                          If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

                          Comment

                          • #58
                            Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

                            Originally posted by PriorityOne View Post
                            Please post a draft of what you want to say on here and I will tweak it....
                            ^^^^ I won't be around again until Thursday if you need any more help from me.

                            I think you may have missed a couple of salient points in your draft letter. You and I have different writing styles. I would have hammered home the message in bullet points rather than write an essay on why you think you are right and the FOS is wrong.
                            Last edited by PlanB; 14 August 2013, 09:35. Reason: typos :(

                            Comment

                            • #59
                              Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

                              Originally posted by planB View Post
                              ^^^^ I won't be around again until Thursday if you need any more help from me.

                              I think you may have missed a couple of salient points in your draft letter. You and I have different writing styles. I would have hammered home the message in bullet points rather than write an essay on why you think you are right and the FOS is wrong.
                              Hi PlanB,
                              Thanks for posting. On re-reading my reply it does come across a tad on the rant side - and that's not what i want the FOS to think. I want them to agree with me If you do have chance on Thursday, would you be able to help re-draft in bullet including the points i have missed?
                              Really hoping to get the money back for the repairs as we still haven't moved in the house yet!

                              Many thanks,
                              Missy
                              When Gold isn't enough, there is SA Gold! New to the forum and find the UE route a bit scary? Take a look at my diary here and judge for yourself. I am now saving the money each month that was making little difference to the balance and not a bit of difference to my credit file as a result of finding AAD.


                              I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                              If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

                              Comment

                              • #60
                                Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

                                evening,
                                does anyone have chance to review my response to FOS? I need to reply to them tomorrow (Friday).
                                Many thanks,
                                missy
                                When Gold isn't enough, there is SA Gold! New to the forum and find the UE route a bit scary? Take a look at my diary here and judge for yourself. I am now saving the money each month that was making little difference to the balance and not a bit of difference to my credit file as a result of finding AAD.


                                I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                                If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

                                Comment

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