Kitchen sink problem

[PlanB]

Re: Kitchen sink problem

They agree that IF there was an insufficient gap between the sink and worktop, it could cause damage BUT the fitters of the worktop should have called them and would not have proceeded to fit the top, if there wasn't a sufficient gap.

Just to clarify, the kitchen company installed the sink, the worktops were fitted by another company and they would have sealed the sink to the top, which they (the kitchen company) confirmed is normal practice with any granite company.

The granite company did come out at my request because I was concerned that the top would have to be removed to replace the sink. They didn't think it would be necessary but advised me that a carpenter would have to do the job.

I will approach the granite company but I can probably guess what their reply will be, they weren't employed to fit the sink however, it is a service they offer

Can you clarify whether the 'worktop fitters' were paid by the kitchen supplier as their subcontractor or paid direct by you?

Di

[marypoppins]

Re: Kitchen sink problem

The kitchen company quoted for the worktop but I sourced the same one elsewhere at a considerable sum less than they quoted.

I paid the worktop fitters directly, they weren't subcontracted.

[PlanB]

Re: Kitchen sink problem

The kitchen company quoted for the worktop but I sourced the same one elsewhere at a considerable sum less than they quoted.

I paid the worktop fitters directly, they weren't subcontracted.

Maybe the next step is to establish who exactly is to blame.

If (and I stress if) the worktop fitters got it wrong and that's the cause of the hairline fracture to the sink, then maybe the kitchen installers (who didn't fit the worktop) aren't responsible?

If the money you're withholding is nothing to do with any work carried out by the kitchen installers or their subcontractors then you may be on thin ice.

Have you considered whether you should take your quarrel to the worktop fitters?

I'm not a fitted kitchen expert so maybe the kitchen installers are simply passing the buck?

Di

[marypoppins]

Re: Kitchen sink problem

Maybe the next step is to establish who exactly is to blame.

I agree but that's not going to be easy.

If (and I stress if) the worktop fitters got it wrong and that's the cause of the hairline fracture to the sink, then maybe the kitchen installers (who didn't fit the worktop) aren't responsible?

Yep, agree with this too.

If the money you're withholding is nothing to do with any work carried out by the kitchen installers or their subcontractors then you may be on thin ice.



Have you considered whether you should take your quarrel to the worktop fitters?

I'll email them tomorrow and see what they say.

I'm not a fitted kitchen expert so maybe the kitchen installers are simply passing the buck?

Well they were employed to install the sink in preparation for the top but of course it's very easy for then to lay the blame elsewhere.

Di

Yes and I'm beginning to think its just not worth the hassle and will just pay up!

[PlanB]

Re: Kitchen sink problem

This is fast becoming a chicken and egg situation.

Did the kitchen installers fit the sink incorrectly so the worktop fitters can't be blamed for their contribution after that?

Or was the sink installed correctly but the worktop fitters got it wrong?

The kitchen installers say that if the sink had been fitted incorrectly they would expect the worktop fitters to contact them while they were on site, and they say that didn't happen in their letter to you.

Did your contract with the kitchen installers include their supervision of any third party work i.e. the worktop fitters?

Di

[marypoppins]

Re: Kitchen sink problem

I agree with you Di.

The reply to my very detailed letter to the kitchen installers (which you have seen), made no mention of the photos of the sink that I supplied to them, they just questioned why I felt it necessary to outline the issues that I’d had throughout the installation.

The original quotation lists the worktop – ‘arranging your own to be fitted’ and the sink and taps – ‘providing your own’. I never gave it a thought that any supervision would be required but would have had no reason to expect it unless I was having an unusual/out of the ordinary top.

There isn’t any disclaimer that I can see which refers to me supplying any items (I supplied all the appliances too). The only thing stated is that extra labour charges may incur, should any items not be available when required for the installation.

I’ve emailed the granite company this morning and will update in due course.

[PlanB]

Re: Kitchen sink problem

I only raised the 'supervision' point in case it made the kitchen installer responsible for supervising the worktop fitter's work, making them (kitchen installer) responsible for the worktop fitter's mistake (if they made the mistake).

Di

[marypoppins]

Re: Kitchen sink problem

Whilst the granite company didn't deny or accept responsibility they were very helpful and gave me a contact who might be able to sort it.

Fortunately he took on the very difficult task of changing the sink, he confirmed that it hadn't been put in correctly and due to the way it had been put in, it was difficult to get out!

It's done now and has cost me £100. It turned out that he works for the granite company, but he's done it as a personal job and not through them.

That's 4 people I've had in to look at what needed doing, all agreed that the damage was caused due to the fitting of the sink, only one offered to do the job but let me down.

The sink is now sitting in a wooden cradle and it's very clear to see the required gap as per the manufacturers installation guide and it's even more clear to me now that there wasn't a gap when the first one was put in!

Anyone that's read this thread will be aware that the kitchen installers passed the buck and decided that the granite company was at fault for fitting the top and they should, or would have contacted them if there was any concern when they put the top in.

Whilst that point could possibly be argued between themselves, I did not employ the granite company to fit the sink, only the worktop so I don't consider that it was their responsibility to inspect something fitted by someone else. (They wouldn't have had any installation details for the sink and why should they have when it wasn't their job?) There are so many different sinks available nowadays so does that mean that they need to know installation guidelines for every type of sink?

It is on this basis that I will write back to the kitchen company, pay them the balance, less the £100 and (maybe) point out to them that they've been lucky that it's not cost them £200 for the replacement sink!

Next job is to get in touch with Neff because my new all singing and dancing cooker keeps freezing!

Oh the joys!............................................. ...............

[PlanB]

Re: Kitchen sink problem

It is on this basis that I will write back to the kitchen company, pay them the balance, less the £100 and (maybe) point out to them that they've been lucky that it's not cost them £200 for the replacement sink!

Are you not going to replace the cracked sink?

If so maybe you should deduct £300 to cover all the repair cost i.e. parts and labour?

Di

[Deepie]

Re: Kitchen sink problem

Next job is to get in touch with Neff because my new all singing and dancing cooker keeps freezing!

Oh the joys!............................................. ...............

Did they fit the freezer where the cooker should have gone ....????

[marypoppins]

Re: Kitchen sink problem

Are you not going to replace the cracked sink?

If so maybe you should deduct £300 to cover all the repair cost i.e. parts and labour?

Di

Sorry Di, I didn't make that very clear.

The manufacturers (to my astonishment) just sent me a replacement, I think it was more trouble to come and inspect it because it was getting close to Xmas so I didn't actually have to pay for it. They asked for photos and asked what the gap was between the sink and the worktop.

They stressed the importance of the fitting and the required gap and this was when it became apparent that it hadn't been fitted correctly.

So if I was being honest, I should send pay them for the replacement but they're never going to know.

[marypoppins]

Re: Kitchen sink problem

Dear Mary Poppins,

Provided that the suggested payment of £400.00 is made today by BACS transfer then such payment can be made by way of full and final settlement of the balance of our outstanding invoice and any dispute arising therefrom.

Thanks everyone

[PlanB]

Re: Kitchen sink problem

Dear Mary Poppins,

Provided that the suggested payment of £400.00 is made today by BACS transfer then such payment can be made by way of full and final settlement of the balance of our outstanding invoice and any dispute arising therefrom.

So common sense prevailed in the end.

And if I've got my maths right, you are not out-of-pocket either.

Well Done You.

Di

[marypoppins]

Re: Kitchen sink problem

Spot on Di!

[Pixie]

Re: Kitchen sink problem

Well done on finally getting this resolved marypoppins