Alzheimers

[Angry Cat]

Re: Alzheimers

Look forward to hearing of your progress Riberaclass. There are those of us who realise what a painful time this is and I am sure we can all rally round and "chip in our bit" to help you through.

regards
Garlok

Hopefully, we will hear back from riberclass, soon!

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Alzheimers

Hopefully, we will hear back from riberclass, soon!

Indeed that is what this post says
http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...1&postcount=13

Regards

[Angry Cat]

Re: Alzheimers

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/...er_of_attorney

[Riberaclass]

Re: Alzheimers

MORE NEWS

Many thanks for all your link to various sites. I've been through them all & found them very helpful although some are a bit confusing. I've made contact with a chap from the Alzhiemers Soc who is extremely 'on the ball' with all this. I've found that my Aunt has a building soc a/c & a National savings a/c & I have the books for these. Both, quite rightly cannot talk to me till I have POA & her other a/c is a Post Office 'card' a/c. Apparently you can nominate someone to be an extra cardholder & she had done this with a friend who lived local to her - I have been to see him as he was the one getting her money out for her & doing her shopping. It appears that the larger amounts that were being drawn out were at her request & these amounts were being paid into her building Soc a/c so she didn't have too much in the PO a/c (if you follow me!) My Aunt has now signed for me to become her card holder so when I receive the card I can get her statements sent to me & then I can tie up the money taken out of the post office & the money put into the building soc a/c.
The money she has will make her 'self-funding' according to social services but this will soon drop below the limit. The chap at the Alzheimers soc has said that there should be a report on her when her discharge was done from the hospital to asses her physical & mental state & we are having a continued conversation about this. It appears in some circumstances that social services have to pay for her care regardless but obviously they are not going to volunteer this information. It really depends on how she is - but then who is going to decide? When I saw her she was aware of who I was & quite happy to sign the forms for the Post Office but it has to be said that she is a bit eccentric - but then she has been like this for about 25yrs! I've got her medical file which was left in her house & I'm working my way through this - it's about 12" thick so it's hard going & lots of jargon. It also appears about 3/4 yrs ago she had some kind of breakdown so I'm trying to find out more - I've always been in touch with social services & they have my phone number so I'm not sure why I wasn't contacted at the time.
I spoke to Solicitor who is in the nearest large town to her who first said she would have to go to their office to do the POA & then said they could visit her for an initial consultation then they would have to return to get the forms signed - approx cost £500 - is this right?
The problem I can see is that who can decide if she is capable or not? I tried to speak to her Doctor but they will not talk to me - but they said I could write in?? Her medical file mentions Alzheimers & also tablets for her although I have been told she generally refuses to take most tablets prescribed for her. I'll post more on the medical file when I've been through it & I should be speaking to the chap at the Alz soc later today.
Would be grateful for any other suggestions you have. best wishes to all, RL

[The Debt Star]

Re: Alzheimers

My Aunt has now signed for me to become her card holder so when I receive the card I can get her statements sent to me & then I can tie up the money taken out of the post office & the money put into the building soc a/c.

She can only grant a general power of attorney like this if she has the requisite mental capacity to do so.

If so, and she has the capacity to grant you Lasting Power of Attorney for her property and Financial Affairs, she should do so as this then avoids the neccessity for an application for a Receivership Order at the Court of Protection. You should approach her GP or consultant geriatrician for a report as to her acapcity to make a Lasting Power of Attorney.

The alternative, as you have already stated, is Deputyship and this takes a long time to get an order and it is an intrusive process. For instance, Deputies have to pay a bond into the court each year and submit annual accounts. Attorneys are spared these tasks but unforntunately your aunt cannot appoint an Attorney under a Lasting Power if she does not have the mental capacity to do so.

The capacity test for a donor making a Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA) is determined by the Mental Capacity Act 2005.

A person lacks capacity if, at the time a decision needs to be made, she is unable to make or communicate the decision because of an impairment of, or a disturbance in the functioning of, the mind or brain.

The Act contains a two-stage test of capacity:

1. Is there an impairment of, or disturbance in the functioning of, the person’s mind or brain?
2. If so, is the impairment or disturbance sufficient that the person lacks the capacity to make a decision in relation to the matter in question?

The assessment of capacity must be based on the person’s ability to make a decision in relation to the relevant matter (in this case give instruction and execute a Lasting Power of Attorney (Property and Affairs), and not their ability to make decisions in general. It does not matter therefore if the lack of capacity is temporary, if the person retains the capacity to make other decisions, or if the person’s capacity fluctuates.

Under the Act, a person is regarded as being unable to make a decision if they cannot:

• understand information about the decision to be made;
• retain that information;
• use or weigh the information as part of the decision-making process; or
• communicate the decision (by any means).

Only you know the answer to these questions and you need to get a report from her GP or consultant to verify this. A lack of capacity cannot be established merely by reference to a person’s age or appearance or to a particular condition or an aspect of behaviour. A person is not to be treated as being unable to make a decision merely because they have made an unwise decision.

The test of capacity is not the same as the test for detention and treatment under the Mental Health Act 1983. Many people covered by the Mental Health Act have the capacity to make decisions for themselves. On the other hand, most people who lack capacity to make decisions will never be affected by the Mental Health Act.

The money she has will make her 'self-funding' according to social services but this will soon drop below the limit.

What is the limit? The upper level was £21,000 but may be slightly more now. Don't forget they then apply a contributory pro-rata band down to approximately £13,000 (or thereabouts, do you know the actual lower limit?).

Also, remember that the cost of NHS related care costs are not paid by the patient but by the NHS. Regular and through assessments of your aunt should be undertaken. Local Authorities / Social Services try to put people off demanding such assessments for the obvious reasons - funds. But you can insist on an assessment for the NHS level of her care and this will reduce her privately funded contributions. Here is a link to a useful local authority leaflet. Its a few yaers out of date but covers the issues https://shareweb.kent.gov.uk/Documen...re-leaflet.pdf

When I saw her she was aware of who I was & quite happy to sign the forms for the Post Office but it has to be said that she is a bit eccentric

Its a grey area and no two cases are the same. All hinges on the medical report. £500.00 is a very good quote indeed for an LPA including a home visit. Others may say do it yourself and save money but to be frank, in these circumstances, yuo must do it right and involve a solicitor.

The problem I can see is that who can decide if she is capable or not?

Her GP or geriatrician consultant. You must send a formal request for a medical report as to her capacity to grant an LPA. This is something the solicitors will do as a matter of course, so use them. The doctor will charge for this service though, so bear that in mind.

[garlok]

Re: Alzheimers

Excellent post DS. Remember Riberaclass there are now two LPAs to be considered here, one is for health and welfare issues plus the other is for the conduct of financial matters. The last one I was involved in (2010), each set of forms was nearly an inch thick and a lawyer had to be involved to get things right.

Also you mention a breakdown in your aunt's medical history. It needs to be checked whether she was sectioned (or at any other time) for any reason under section 3 of the Mental Health Act, if she has been then section 117 comes into play and Social Services will have to pay.

As you say the doctors are not being helpful, a good lawyer who is representing both you and your aunt will make application as an "officer of the court" for the relevant information and it is a foolish doctor indeed who fails to comply. Failing to comply with this formal request would in all likelyhood place them in the area of professional misconduct which in turn is actionable by the General Medical Council.

Unfortunately you may find that it will be turned into a subjective area by the medics as they will not want to be pinned down. Just hang in ther and don't be fobbed off. They all have an agenda not least Social Services trying to abdicate their responsibilities and liabilities to cut their costs. Even the high Court agrees as in the Birmingham case and i was informed of a case on the Wirral this very weekend where they have had to back down.

regards
Garlok

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Alzheimers

I tried to speak to her Doctor but they will not talk to me

Are you registered with her doctor as being here carer if that is the case then they have a duty to speak to you.

If you are not then I would get the form required from the doctors reception and get it filled in as soon as.

Regards

[garlok]

Re: Alzheimers

Another little snippet I had forgotten in the cases we are having to deal with, concerns benefits. If the person concerned is in full time care with an element of payment from the public purse, all of that persons income can be taken from them and just a "pocket money" element, about £23 remains in their control for personal use. The carers allowance goes into the pot, as does DLA, incapacity benefit for those still of working age etc. This includes State pension as well. Put in the NHS nursing care element contribution. Hence when all of this is boiled down to realistic levels, Social services are not actually coughing up an awful lot.

What we have found is that private sector care homes are falsely inflating their rates to make a killing financially. This despite the fact that care homes are supposed to charge Social Services an appropriate rate for the area and the levels of care provided. AND Social Services are required NOT to contract into care home organisations that are out of line.

Food for thought.
Regards
Garlok

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Alzheimers

What we have found is that private sector care homes are falsely inflating their rates to make a killing financially. This despite the fact that care homes are supposed to charge Social Services an appropriate rate for the area and the levels of care provided. AND Social Services are required NOT to contract into care home organisations that are out of line.

Garlok,

This is a point I touched on a while back in that the care for the elderly and disabled should not be profit driven, it is very clear that the profits these private care homes make go to there shareholders of these homes.

That cannot be right every penny should be used to care for those not able to care for themselves.

[garlok]

Re: Alzheimers

I agree completely PF. What we have seen and witnessed with our own eyes over OH's younger brother who has been mentally handicapped since birth, now has dementia, Parkinsons and a lowish level of paranoid schizophrenia in his mid fifties is a total scandal. He is not alone as we all know.

I now class the social workers running with his case as something a bit lower than the average threat monkey at a DCA. The underside of stones are not low enough.

Sorry for the rant
regards
Garlok

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Alzheimers

Garlok,

No need to apologize m8 we are here to listen, but yes I understand what you are saying.

But yes caring should be not for profit, are there no morals left in this country.

You type care home scandals into your search engine and it throws up a multitude of cases, this is not new and has been ongoing for too long.

[Riberaclass]

Re: Alzheimers

Many thanks for your continued support. I've found a chap at the Alzheimers Soc who is very helpful & has given me a lots of useful information - although not as much as I've been given here! I'm getting lots of calls from Social services about what I'm doing but as far as I'm concerned they can wait. The home just keeps sending invoices marked 'overdue' so I'm filing them in the appropriate place. As you say there seems to be only one concern from them & that's money. I'm not registered as my Aunt's carer as I live too far away. She's generally managed in her house (housing association)with carers but it's now just too much for her. I think I've decided that if I end up in a situation like that it's the river for me. I've always had a low regard for these type of set-ups - like you say it should not be based just on the premise of making money. Will keep you posted, kind regards RL

[garlok]

Re: Alzheimers

Many thanks Riberaclass, as pompey said a few posts ago we are only a few clicks away.

We are about to go legal with one of our cases if there is no progress this next week and my OHs elder brother has found an expert solicitor in these matters who only represents vulnerable people who practices in the Malvern area. So we'll see waht the Waffen SS has to say about that if they force the issue.

best regards
Garlok

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Alzheimers

Riberaclass,

You are welcome, we only care that you get the right information so you can move forward in a timely manner and not feel confused by it all because as you have found out this situations are a minefield.

Kindest Regards

PF

[caspar]

Re: Alzheimers

Wow - fantastic advice folks. Thanks for teaching me a lot too!