Work have pulled a fast one here.....

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

I'm surprised you're still in a job

But well done on fighting for your rights....

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

**Update**

Following a number of emails sent to all and sundry and my boss on the phone to HR on Monday morning, I had a reply saying that my health policy would be reinstated as soon as possible and that it had been an admin. error..... As soon as it's been reinstated, the claim could then be honoured.

Hmmm.

I am happy for myself but not for the other poor b*ggers who've had claims rejected and done nothing about it. In fact, several people have been at my workplace for around two years now and never been sent any health policy documents at all. Why do people not complain about these things? No new staff employed since September have been included in the health policy either.

I know for a fact this was to save money on the set-up of this new part of where I'm based..... but as long as my claim is paid, I won't rattle any cages.

I'll let you know when I get another update.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

It does seem that the tax man will be a little more than interested in this case. The HR intern may be in for a telling off.

The tax deduction is why husband and wife, who are both eligible for 'free' healthcare normally do not both claim. As the spouse or family subscription is generally cheaper and therefore attracts less tax, all other things being equal they would tend to take the scheme from the person with the lowest tax code. Tax on a subscription of £1400 pa on 40% is £560 or a mere £280 on a 20% tax code.

If they have not charged you tax directly, the company must have paid it on your behalf . That is tantamount to an annual pay increase/decrease of say £1400, more if you are prone to chronic illness and accident, as private medical insurance for a company is spread over the all staff, but an individual subscriber pays more for not being fit. As SXGuy says, contact your union or staff association if you get no joy from HR.

TastyJane seems to be an HR person. Perhaps you should PM?.

Yes.... they do pay it on our behalf, which means I've had an indirect pay cut really.

Not happy.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Oh i see what you mean, well yes then if it ran for 2 years, you would have seen a tax code change in the 2nd and 3rd year.

I can only recall one tax code change but it was to everyone's advantage and not the other way around. I also seem to recall something about being expected to notify HMRC ourselves but may have this mixed up with something else.... as often, people take on a second role where I work and need to declare this separately.

I will be raising the tax code issue with HR this week though if no-one sorts this out at work.

[julian]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

It does seem that the tax man will be a little more than interested in this case. The HR intern may be in for a telling off.

The tax deduction is why husband and wife, who are both eligible for 'free' healthcare normally do not both claim. As the spouse or family subscription is generally cheaper and therefore attracts less tax, all other things being equal they would tend to take the scheme from the person with the lowest tax code. Tax on a subscription of £1400 pa on 40% is £560 or a mere £280 on a 20% tax code.

If they have not charged you tax directly, the company must have paid it on your behalf . That is tantamount to an annual pay increase/decrease of say £1400, more if you are prone to chronic illness and accident, as private medical insurance for a company is spread over the all staff, but an individual subscriber pays more for not being fit. As SXGuy says, contact your union or staff association if you get no joy from HR.

TastyJane seems to be an HR person. Perhaps you should PM?.

[SXGuy]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Blimey.... what a mess!

The umbrella company covers loads of smaller ones, so I can't think that they'd play silly b*ggers with HMRC but my tax coding is definitely the same both before and after taking on this new role.

HMM im not an expert with umbrella companies, so there may well be a loop hole that gets them out of the "benifits in kind" senario which would reduce your tax code.

Usually, most if not all benifits in kind, is taxable, but umbrella companies skirt around the law by their very nature, so they may well know a way around it that im unsure of.

[SXGuy]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

they've had it for two years

so surely it would have appeared in a tax code by now?

regardless of the tax position, you can't just withdraw a benefit without notification and discussion

Oh i see what you mean, well yes then if it ran for 2 years, you would have seen a tax code change in the 2nd and 3rd year.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Blimey.... what a mess!

The umbrella company covers loads of smaller ones, so I can't think that they'd play silly b*ggers with HMRC but my tax coding is definitely the same both before and after taking on this new role.

[MrsD]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

they've had it for two years

so surely it would have appeared in a tax code by now?

regardless of the tax position, you can't just withdraw a benefit without notification and discussion

[SXGuy]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Tax code deductions for benifits wont appear till the following year, it works on a arrears basis im afraid.

HMRC dont know what benifits someone has until the end of the year, and its then they recode you and take in to account benifits from the previous year.

With that said, with the new RTI scheme started this April, it may happen in the same year in future, but non of us know enough yet to see if thats the case.

But you still have an argument as i see it, if your tax code this year, is allowing for health care benifits you had last year, you will get a coding notice telling you what your new code is and what has come off of it.

If it runs for the whole year, and you only received health care for example 3 months, then your clearly overpaying tax for the other 9? if you see what i mean.

So its not as easy to just say, we will reinstate it, as it will cause you to pay more tax over the time you wasnt receiving it.

Maybe a call to Acas?

[MrsD]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

P1 sounds as if someone somewhere has made a simple mistake.

If you are receiving health care, it is a benefit in kind, the company must tell the tax peeps and it should have appeared on your notice of coding as a deduction, if it doesn't someone somewhere is in deep shit.

if you've been receiving it and not paying tax on it, you'll be liable for the tax, also for previous years.

I would definitely go to HR and get chapter and verse, make them aware you know the rules and see what they say.

it could just be some numpty not putting your names on a list, which is easily fixed, it could be a lot more than that, which could look like fraud in some cases, so you need to get it straight, even just for your own tax purposes

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Check if they have deducted tax for it. Normally all that appears on the wage slip is the tax deduction for benefits.

If they have continued to deduct tax, or not informed the taxman, who may have incorporated it into your tax code, they are doubly accountable.

In most cases there is a notice period when the benefit is removed. An insurance company will not just let somebody stop paying premiums. If the company backs the policy and just uses the insurers to manage it, they can do what they want, but not without making it informing you explicitly that the benefit is being removed.

Thanks Julian. I can't see any tax deductions on any payslips for this but as it was being paid by the company and not us, I'm not sure if it would show..... There is definitely nothing on their for benefits though. My tax code is the same as it was before I was transferred over.

As far as I can make out, the insurance company is unaware that premiums were just stopped for certain people as part of a block policy. When I emailed them in March to find out what paperwork they would need prior to a private consultation, they wrote and told me... yet according to the letter I received yesterday, premiums ceased to be paid in November last year, even though I had transferred across to this other workplace in September. That in itself makes no business sense. I had a claim paid in November just before they ceased (fortunately) but no-one had the decency to let anyone know premiums were ceasing and in my books, that's dirty.

I have just looked on our umbrella company's website and this health policy is open to all employees, so I intend to kick some butt.

[julian]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Check if they have deducted tax for it. Normally all that appears on the wage slip is the tax deduction for benefits.

If they have continued to deduct tax, or not informed the taxman, who may have incorporated it into your tax code, they are doubly accountable.

In most cases there is a notice period when the benefit is removed. An insurance company will not just let somebody stop paying premiums. If the company backs the policy and just uses the insurers to manage it, they can do what they want, but not without making it informing you explicitly that the benefit is being removed.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

Unless it is written in black and white in your contract...

I know from bitter experience. I lost health care, company car scheme, pension, bonus...

They can pretty much do what they like.

That seems to be the way things are a lot of the time.....

well there might be a delivered in practice instance here

you can't have a benefit, which by the way you are paying tax on
then some numpty just removes it cos they are either eejits or they have no money, it's simply not as easy as that


you should raise a grievance and ask why they have removed benefits with no consultation

you need to frighten the shyte out of HR

I will do that Mrs D. I will give HR a chance to reply back this week and if not, will raise merry Hell. The fact they let it lapse 2 months after we all transferred over is a bit of a thick move as well.....

[MrsD]

Re: Work have pulled a fast one here.....

well there might be a delivered in practice instance here

you can't have a benefit, which by the way you are paying tax on
then some numpty just removes it cos they are either eejits or they have no money, it's simply not as easy as that


you should raise a grievance and ask why they have removed benefits with no consultation

you need to frighten the shyte out of HR