Bedroom tax

[jon1965]

Re: Bedroom tax

Not that many years ago after being widdowed (less than 10) my MIL was offered 2K by Charnwood council to move to a smaller property. She was also offered an bungalow on what was locally called death row.

She took the money and moved because it was in her best interest.

However you are right, even if the costs of moving and carpets/curtains etc covered then more people would be inclined to move

[Pixie]

Re: Bedroom tax

If I end up back on benefits and have to pay the bedroom tax I'll live on bread and jam rather than give up my home. The liaison officer at the housing association said she didn't blame me as she wouldn't want to move either!

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Bedroom tax

The problem is though we are perceived to be in austerity and councils are having their funding cut in all areas so I doubt very much if they will help with the cost of moving.

[diddlydee]

Re: Bedroom tax

That is fair enough, Pix. I don't think anyone should be forced to move. But for those that are prepared to, I don't see why they should be out of pocket for giving up their home.

If only this and previous governments had placed more of the funds they made when they sold off housing stock into building more, we wouldn't be in this mess, I'm sure!

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Bedroom tax

Pixie their has been very little public consultation on this and no consultation at all from charitable organisations. That is wrong because the Government has hammered it through parliament with out the full facts.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Bedroom tax

Not sure if you use Facebook but if you do some of the Srories I am reading on this Tax is tragic.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/453691884690427/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/492600724103642/

[Pixie]

Re: Bedroom tax

That is fair enough, Pix. I don't think anyone should be forced to move. But for those that are prepared to, I don't see why they should be out of pocket for giving up their home.

If only this and previous governments had placed more of the funds they made when they sold off housing stock into building more, we wouldn't be in this mess, I'm sure!

When the housing association first contacted me about this, the woman (a different one to the liaison officer) kept going on about taking me to court if I got into arrears. She obviously didn't realise that I'm quite knowledgeable on this...I'd make sure my priority debts were paid.

Pixie their has been very little public consultation on this and no consultation at all from charitable organisations. T

I know that PF.

I've signed petitions and belong to a facebook group so I know people are trying to sort it out but I fear it might be too late.

I know benefit cuts need to be made but they're targeting the wrong people...the "scroungers" (and we all know there are some who have no intention of even trying to find work) will still be okay.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Bedroom tax

When the housing association first contacted me about this, the woman (a different one to the liaison officer) kept going on about taking me to court if I got into arrears. She obviously didn't realise that I'm quite knowledgeable on this...I'd make sure my priority debts were paid.




I know that PF.

I've signed petitions and belong to a facebook group so I know people are trying to sort it out but I fear it might be too late.

I know benefit cuts need to be made but they're targeting the wrong people...the "scroungers" (and we all know there are some who have no intention of even trying to find work) will still be okay.

That is my biggest bugbear the ones who can work are still walking the streets I see it every day and they are the ones that have never worked, but I am also seeing and being told about the genuine ones who are unable to work due to disability with life long conditions are being wrongly targeted these are people who have worked and paid taxes and NI the safety net that is supposed to protect them from poverty.

The Government has all the data they need to weed out the ones that have never contributed to society so it is about time they put in a task force to end it.

[Pixie]

Re: Bedroom tax

I'm lucky in that I'm healthy and can work but, as my work is so erratic, I do get very worried and depressed about the bedroom tax. I can only imagine what it must be like for someone who is also coping with disabilities and serious illness.

[cardiac arrest]

Re: Bedroom tax

I'm a bit ignorant on Housing benefit for Social/Council housing...anybody care to enlighten me as to how they work out how much you are entitled to ?

[Pixie]

Re: Bedroom tax

I get the letters etc but I can't make head nor tail of them.

They still haven't sorted mine out from when my daughter moved back in October even though I've notified them.

[julian]

Re: Bedroom tax

The issue only arises as a consequence of council tax benefits which are paid to enable somebody to pay their rent. Council rents are subsidised already n most areas (compare £2000 per month private to £600 council in London), so there are issues on whether the subsidies provided when there is a need should be withdrawn when there is no longer a need.

When my grandparents were bombed out of Manchester they moved into a house with relatives 50 miles away 14 people in 3 bedrooms and 2 receptions. Overcrowding, not considered then. They were on a list for rehousing for 9 years, during which time their children grew and married and had children, 20 all in the same place, a bit of a squeeze.

Finally in 1953 a 3 bed house came up. They were no longer eligible but a daughter with a husband and 3 children were allocated the house, and the rest of them stayed put. 6 years afterwards a 1 bedroomed bungalow came up and the now widowed grandmother went in.

The daughter in the 3 bedroomed house went on to have 10 children. So in the next 10 years there were 6 girls and 4 boys in the 3 bedrooms. They slept in bunk beds and shared the one bathroom. 5 miles from schools.

In certain areas there are no 1-bedroomed accommodation. If you end up in a council city, you live in very similar accommodation. You may live near schools, you may live near your job. As in the counties, in London you may need to move 5 miles to a different council property within the same borough incurring extra travel problems. Just like with house purchase, but with less choice.

I do not object to immigrants coming in, but not all have children with them all the time, just proof they have children. Why should children require 3 bedrooms? With the new birth control methods and abstinence why should anybody have more than 2 children if they are on benefits? Is there ever an audit of people in beds? If sleeping partners move in should they be declared?

Having children is not a human right, it is a human decision. Accidents apart. Could it not be a rule on allocation of property? You will only ever be entitled to 2 bedrooms?

I could not afford a child, I had one and he is lovely, but I took pains not to have more. I don't have a council property, but lived in one for a short time as I had nowhere else to go. I am thankful for the opportunity, but I am glad I was able to move out. Some people can't and some people can. Some people choose not to, and can thereby afford expensive cars, holidays and even private education. Others rent them out and move to cheaper accommodation.

Local Authority Housing should be for those in need at the time and those that provide into the local community. There should be a space where new-comers in need, and not intentionally homeless, can be housed. Not shanty towns but not fully equipped to the highest standard. The right to bring in entire families of dependants should be resolved until the host is fully self-sufficient and not dependent on welfare. When people can afford to move out they should do, not spend their wealth on second homes.

Seaside towns and large cities are invaded by people from all over the world expecting to be housed to the detriment of local people, who then have to move away because there is no housing. The incomers move to those places because they are nicer, but they have no history with the area and so no investment in its future, hence the decline of what were once 'nice and pleasant' estates.

Allocate a maximum of 3 bedrooms so have fewer children or bunk up.
If you separate, you need to face up to the consequences of becoming homeless.
Violent spouses should be prosecuted and lose all tights to community housing.
Partners not on the rent book should have no rights even if they breed.
If you allow your children breed than take care of them, don't expect others to do it for you.
Hostels for mothers with children without support (ie not already housed including teenage mothers and those who have chosen to have children as a right but have not made provisions), but no co-habiting, and penalties if there are more children.
Give more points to local people than to those coming in with children to overcome the need to have children to be housed.
Count incomers from other towns and immigrants with children as intentionally homeless.
Count offspring under 25 in full-time education or training as residents.
Ensure that all applications for housing are vetted and audited and followed up after allocation to prove they are valid.

[cardiac arrest]

Re: Bedroom tax

I've sussed it out, and compared identical figures for Social Housing rent versus Private renting...

here we go (figures per week)

.........................Social ........... Private
Net Pay/benefit... 200.00 ....... 200.00
earnings disregard . 5.00........... n/a

Income for HB..... 195.00........ 200.00

Allowed earnings .. 142.70....... 142.70
excess earnings...... 52.30........ 57.30
65% of excess ....... 34.00........ 37.25 *

Actual rent paid .... 100.00 ...... 100.00
Single person adj (see note)..... (14.00)
Allowed Rent......... 100.00 ....... 86.00
less excess * ......... 34.00 ....... 37.25 *

HB payable............. 66.00........ 48.75
===================================

Note: The new changes to Social Housing will deduct 14% (for one bedroom) from the actual rent paid, to yield an 'allowed' rent. as per Private rents..

SO in the above, the Social allowed rent will be 86.00...less the excess earnings of 34.00, making a HB payment of 52.00...

SO you can see how the Govt are trying to make both sectors the same...doesn't make it right, but at least you can see how they got to the figures.

As per my OP, the only difference now is the social sector HB new rules only applies to people of working age, whereas the private sector Hb rules applies regardless of how old you are...

[jon1965]

Re: Bedroom tax

Julian
Some of what you says makes sense but come on 10 kids in the late 40's early 50's. Show some bloody self control!

I do agree that having children should not be a way to get on the housing ladder, my OH says these children should be taken into care (not something I advocate)

As for the talk of immigrants etc it sounds like you read too many Daily Mail headlines. I do not believe the issue is as bad as people believe.

Maybe the answer is to make social housing rents on a par with private rents although where I live they are not a million miles apart. Of course if you do that you will have to increase the benefits budget and the DM would scream "we are paying xbillion more in HB than 5 years ago"

Another question, are you saying that social housing should be for those in need at the time...just what we need another disincentive to get a job. If we weren't a country so pro house ownership (thanks Mags) this would not be a problem. There would be a good stock of quality rental housing available unlike at the moment where a lot of private rental is unsecure (long term) and in a poor state of repair.

[julian]

Re: Bedroom tax

Well Jon you have bitten. The Popes have a lot to answer for don't they? In those days it was a case of many or none at all. It was just life and it was just life, without the frills and the food. Now there is sex education and IVF. Many children in care are better off physically than with their families at least they eat and have clothes, but they many are emotionally deficient. Besides those who foster often get bigger houses .

Need does not only mean financial need. It also implies safety on the Maslow scale, which is why more points are given to people with children or disabilities.

Social Housing was always for the impoverished. It was for those in need. My grandparents went from rented to bought on a regular footing at a similar monthly cost. They tried to live near work, but in some of the mill towns there was only rented accommodation, and elsewhere there wasn't. When a mill/mine closed people had to move, if they had no job and no money families went to the workhouse, and probably did not come out. If they were mentally ill they went to an asylum. No job, no food, no shelter men went to soup kitchens and slept in hedgerows. Hence so many wars as the soldiers were clothed and fed albeit badly.

Prior to LA housing there was the tied cottage or the workhouse for many if not most. They lived 10 to a house, they lived from hand to mouth and from week to week. The exception was almshouses and Peabody Trust type accommodation endowed by benefactors at low rents. I know many people that have spent years sleeping on somebody's floor because they can't find anything they can afford, and so they miss out on their own family life whereas others just have children and get a leg up.

If you can remember until the 1960s people had to get permission from their bosses in banks etc to get married as they could not afford a family until they had a career and in that way they were not tempted to steal. Most people were married before they had children.

In my area we have many council estates and other social housing as well as modest and expensive private houses, and many immigrants for both economic and asylum reasons as well as high flyers and academics. The local schools have 90% foreign born children including private schools. So it is not a case of the newcomers integrating with the current population but the reverse. All races and ethnicities are included, so how can any pretense of historical social values be maintained if they are unknown? I had work colleagues whose families went on holiday and came back married and then imported the in-laws, who are very pleasant people but don't have jobs but require accommodation and interpreters. Facts not opinions. This may be the only area upon which the Daily Mail reports.

Common sense is dead and political correctness killed it. Not everybody out of work is a layabout, but not everybody on benefits deserves them. Just like respect is earned and our elders do not necessarily know better. However, the meek will definitely not inherit the earth.