Help for a fool

[ScabHunter]

Re: Help for a fool

OK, here's my take on this -


We can't possibly know for sure which is the right course of action because we don't have knowledge of all of the facts. We don't know when the last payment or written acknowledgement of the alleged debt was made, and we obviously don't know whether any agreement still exists, and, if so, whether or not it is enforceable.


What we need to do is find the course of action which involves the least amount of risk for the highest possible reward. If I was in this position, I would send the s.78 request off immediately. Here is why -


1) Lying low and waiting for the alleged debt to go statute barred no longer makes any sense if they have come after you demanding money. As of now, they have no knowledge that you are an informed consumer with knowledge of your rights, so they may try to go for a quick court judgment to secure the alleged debt. If they did, crafting a defence would prove extremely difficult as we know virtually nothing of the prevailing circumstances.


If you send an s.78 request, they will have to satisfy that before they could legitimately proceed to court. We have no knowledge of whether a compliant agreement exists, but it would be rare in an account of that age for a compliant agreement to be readily available. If such an agreement did exist, it would worsen your case, but only to the degree which would have happened in any case as the agreement would need to be produced whenever the case proceeded to court.


There is a strong chance that an agreement of this age will not be fully compliant, and the s.78 request may reveal this. If it does, your position immediately strengthens considerably.


2) If the alleged debt is statute barred, sending off a s.78 request will not alter that. In fact, sending anything would not alter it as once a debt is statute barred it cannot be un-statute barred.


3) If the alleged debt is close to being statute barred, the s.78 request may just buy enough time to close the window of opportunity the lender currently has to take action before the time elapses. In any case, the s.78 request will have no bearing on when the time actually does elapse.


For me, the risk involved in sending the request is far lower than the risk involved with not sending it. This is just my opinion, and I am only a new poster to the site, certainly not a moderator nor anyone involved with administration. Get several expert opinions before making a final choice.


SH

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help for a fool

^^^ You mention risk, lets not forget the amount of the alleged debt here. The risk is minimal if indeed, even defaulted.

It's really not something I would lose sleep over. But as previously mentioned, they are having a fishing exercise so why pander to them?

At this stage I suggest doing nothing. Maybe when we have more facts then my opinion would change. However in any case, as you do correctly point out - sending a CCA does no damage at all other than confirm you are indeed the person they are looking for, and I have the opinion (at times) that we shouldn't need to jump at their every whim thus occasionally I do suggest ignorance is best and this is one of those times, as things stand here and now anyway.

Statistically, I don't often make mistakes of such a nature to lead people into court

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help for a fool

p.s. Scabhunter - thanks, your post does explain things to people that don't understand these basics. I also agree with what you have said in your post so don't think I'm saying it's wrong - ordinarily it is 100% spot on

Its just on this occasion I really think it's best to wait and see if/what they send next..... no harm in waiting a few weeks

New or not, all input and opinion is welcome -

[ScabHunter]

Re: Help for a fool

^^^ You mention risk, lets not forget the amount of the alleged debt here. The risk is minimal if indeed, even defaulted.

It's really not something I would lose sleep over. But as previously mentioned, they are having a fishing exercise so why pander to them?

At this stage I suggest doing nothing. Maybe when we have more facts then my opinion would change. However in any case, as you do correctly point out - sending a CCA does no damage at all other than confirm you are indeed the person they are looking for, and I have the opinion (at times) that we shouldn't need to jump at their every whim thus occasionally I do suggest ignorance is best and this is one of those times, as things stand here and now anyway.

Statistically, I don't often make mistakes of such a nature to lead people into court

OK. Fair enough.

That is the opinion which matters. The opinion of someone with the experience of helping many people in similar situations and with a proven track record of success.

Follow this advice but keep us informed of any future developments.

SH

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help for a fool

Thanks both, but please be gentle with me.

Hope this makes sense??

• Type of account : Lloyds credit card
  
  
• Date commenced : no idea
  
  
• Approx balance : £2000
  
  
• Date last paid : no idea
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying : this is the complicated bit. I was paying...many years ago. I have no idea when i stopped paying regular, but sure it was over 5years ago. Then i would only make random payments. Also I have no proof of this as i have destroyed the statements etc, but i think Lloyds were taking money out of my bank account when i previously missed payments.
  
  
• Status : they want £121.75 by 8th May
  
  
• Account owner : letters are from Lloyds collections centre

Based on what you have said in this, you may only be 2 payments behind (working out a £2k debt on average of 3% repayment would be about right).

Why, may I ask, would you consider UE if you're not defaulted etc? Can you actually afford to repay this and/or do you have other debts?

The ramifications of non payment will be severe (ie 6yrs of no credit) all for one £2k account that's only £121 (2 payments) behind.

I would consider this very risky and rather crazy so I'm guessing I have it wrong (if so please put me right) or you've other debts in which case, can you elaborate and tell us more...

Right now I don't think a CCA request is appropriate, certainly not with the above facts that suggest you may not even be defaulted as yet.

I have a Lloyds TSB credit card which I haven't used since roughly 2004 and I owe about £2000. My problem is I'm not doing anything about it and I haven't done for years!!
Due to various reasons, one being I suffer with depression, I tend to just ignore things and think they will go away. I have NEVER spoken to the bank about this and I also ignore every letter I get!

additionally, as a result of the above - can you login and access your bank details? If not then I would suggest you SAR the bank to get copies of statements but one way or another you have to get statements and notification of default sums each month you miss so you must have some idea as to what's going on. Statements etc don't just stop - have you moved house?

If you have online access to your bank, can you login and tell me if you paid January 2012 credit card payment? Also, why would it suddenly stop - unless you were in a payment plan years ago and they took £1 per month or whatever thus the balance is the same?

Its pure guesswork but something is not adding up. Please try and login and spend some time online so we can ask questions as I have several

Thanks

[alangee]

Re: Help for a fool

wonganumpty

Have you been receiving your statements from LTSB for credit card?

As Niddy has said, on the face of it you are only two months behind in payments, so you should have been receiving monthly statements.

How do you know you only owe about £2000?

The last letter from LTSB stating that they wanted £121.75 by 8 May, what else did it say? Was it a Default Notice?

Alan

[wonganumpty]

Re: Help for a fool

Firstly i would really like to thank all of you for taking the time to reply!

I'm sorry i haven't been on much to answer your questions, but i'm really getting myself worked up over this again and to be honest i don't really understand some of what you lot are saying. I've no idea when it comes to money...obviously.

I have NO other debts. A bit more to it, but basically i just got depressed over other things, then over time i got lazy with the payments. As i said, when i missed paying i just assumed that Lloyds were just then taking the payment from my bank account. Now for some reason that seems to have stopped and they want the said amount by the 8th.

What can i do about this? I can't afford to pay that. However i probably could afford to pay around £30 a month (not sure if that's enough).
Should i write or email them, if yes what do i say?

Sorry for being a numpty!!!!!!!

[Pixie]

Re: Help for a fool

There's no need to get worked up wonganumpty.

We really need you to find out when you last made a payment.

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Help for a fool

It's OK Wonganumpty, I know all the questions/answers are confusing but we just want to help you, and how we help very much depends on where you are with this account.

We can't really suggest what to write to them without knowing where it stands.

Is your bank current account with Lloyds too?
Any chance you can check your bank statements to see when it was last paid?

(It doesn't sound as if it was that long ago if they're only asking for £121.75)

Can you remember roughly how much you were paying, and was this the minimum payment?

If we can just get a rough idea then we can sort out a letter for you

Shep x

[wonganumpty]

Re: Help for a fool

I've no idea when i last paid and i can't check as i was stupid and binned everything.

My bank account is with Lloyds and yes i think it was the minimum payment they were taking.

[Pixie]

Re: Help for a fool

It seems like LTSB have been taking payments then and it won't be statute barred.

Do you know what your credit rating's like?

First thing though, I'd open a bank account with someone else other than LTSB and then they can't use right of set off to take payments that you can't afford though, if you're on benefits, they shouldn't be doing that anyway.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Help for a fool

The first thing we need to do here is establish the exact status of the account.

Can you tell us whether this demand for £121 by a certain date is a DEFAULT NOTICE, or whether it is just a bog standard threat letter? Does it use words like “remedy the breach”?

It is vital to know whether this is still a live account on which the privileges can still be retained, or whether it is inevitably going to fall into default as you will obviously not be able to give them £121.

There are negative consequences of a default, but it can actually work in your favour in some ways. I won't elaborate here as it may just confuse you, the important fact is to know the exact status of the account.

The one thing I would definitely do immediately is to get another bank account opened. Co-op, Barclays and Nationwide all do basic accounts with a debit card. You need to get your salary or benefits or whatever other income you have away from Lloyds completely. If there is any cash in that Lloyds account, get it out now.

It may be that if your income is low the bank is “not supposed” to use RoSO and take the money out of your account, but wouldn't you sooner be in a situation where this simply couldn't happen?

SH

[wonganumpty]

Re: Help for a fool

Sorry again for not replying, i tried hiding away from it again...idiot!!

I've no idea really, it says;

DEFAULT NOTICE (Served under section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974)

blah blah...

You are in breach as you failed to pay the due amount ete etc

I'm bricking it!!! Help!

[ScabHunter]

Re: Help for a fool

Right, so what you have been sent is definitely a default notice, and that changes the game completely.

What it means it that Lloyds are about to terminate the account, which will mean that you will lose all spending privileges on the card, and the account is likely to be assigned to a third party debt collector. This is obviously negative in the sense that you will no longer be able to use the card, and it also means that a default will be registered with the credit reference agencies.

It does, however, put you in the position where you no longer have any incentive to give them money. You can't retain the card, and you can't get the default removed from your credit file.

Firstly, the default notice may be defective. Obviously, without seeing it, we can't tell. It would be a good idea to email it to Niddy so he can tell you this. If there is a problem with the notice, it is vital not to alert Lloyds to the problem. If they find out, they can always issue another one prior to the actual termination of the account.

FIRST STEP – GET A NEW BANK ACCOUNT

This is absolutely essential. Get another bank account opened as soon as you can and get whatever income you have away from Lloyds. Do it first thing tomorrow morning if you possibly can.

If you have no other debts, you will at least have a wide range of alternative banks to choose from. Co-op, Barclays and Nationwide all do basic accounts with a debit card.

If you don't do this, Lloyds will have the legal right to take money from your bank account to put towards this alleged debt. I can't emphasize this strongly enough – getting a new bank account is ESSENTIAL.

SECOND STEP – DO NOTHING

I take it that you're not in a position to pay the amount needed to remedy the breach? Even if you did pay it, it would most likely only be postponing the difficulty as you would need to keep making payments well in excess of the nominated minimum to bring the balance down and retain spending privileges on the card.

Unless you are able to do this comfortably, it is better just to let this card go as it was becoming too much of a burden in any case. The best course of action is to do nothing, and then the account will be terminated and passed to a third party debt collector. When the debt collector begins demanding money, you can then hit them with an s.78 request to begin the potential unenforceability process.

There is no guarantee that this account will be unenforceable, but due to its age there is a good chance it will be. Even if it is not, there are posters on this site who have been blagging enforceable accounts for years.

Finally, stop “bricking it”. The absolute worst case scenario is that you would end with a court judgment and have to pay the creditor a tiny sum of money each month. Even that is a very long way off and is unlikely to happen. Whatever happens, they cannot hang, draw and quarter you, imprison your parents, sell your children into slavery, eat your dog, dissect your canary or mutilate your hamster.

Stop worrying, and if you have any questions, just ask.

SH

[Deepie]

Re: Help for a fool

^^^great post SH