Maui Jim's UE Diary

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Maui Jim's UE Diary

Thanks Niddy, one last dumb question (well last on this DCA I hope) do I have send back a copy of their copy CCA?

One would not suppose so, as they should know what dreck they sent.

[mauijim]

Re: Maui Jim's UE Diary

p.s. send this back: ---> CCA Query - Missing Prescribed Terms

Thanks Niddy, one last dumb question (well last on this DCA I hope) do I have send back a copy of their copy CCA?

MJ

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Maui Jim's UE Diary

My thoughts too but just wanted to ensure you agreed. It seemed like they were trying to put a brave face on things!

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Maui Jim's UE Diary

if they happen to send the signed agreement to you with terms from when you actually took the account out and not just current ones, it'd then become enforceable.

If.

[PlanB]

Re: Maui Jim's UE Diary

It was 24th!! My registered join date is the site birthday.

In that case we must have an After Party. Please start a "one-year-old-this-week" thread so we can all add our own stuff. It won't matter at all if it's late because men are always late at remembering birthdays and anniversaries (think I had better log off right away . . .).

And it's time I got off M's thread too. Sorry M.
Plan B

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Maui Jim's UE Diary

It was 24th!! My registered join date is the site birthday.

[Deepie]

Re: Maui Jim's UE Diary

I think it,s tomorrow 28th I think

[PlanB]

Re: Maui Jim's UE Diary

Ok, yes!

Here's a recent post, in a protected section, made by Paul which clarifies the point, I think (note the red text):

Thanks for the tutorial Niddy. I now get it: the reason creditors try to fob us off with any old crap we've signed (such as application forms) at the CCA request stage is to fool us into thinking they've got all the right docs in their arsenal. Maybe they have for s.78 purposes but not necessarily for the real deal of the courtroom. I know not all DJs are without prejudice (the "pay up and shut up you low-life debtor" kind) and it's a lottery going to court - although most of us do this by invitation only not out of choice. But I view this UE route as a game of poker in which both sides are playing a game of bluff (Barclays be warned I'm really shit hot at poker).

I love this website because you help us make the creditors abundantly aware that we hold the cards too, and some of them are flippin' aces.

Plan B

PS when's the site's birthday? I may just have to donate like everyone else you've helped will be doing, right people?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Maui Jim's UE Diary

And if they can't provide it in court (never mind s.78) they're stuffed? (Please say yes)

Ok, yes!

Here's a recent post, in a protected section, made by Paul which clarifies the point, I think (note the red text):

Id ask them to comply with their statutory obligations and produce a true copy of the agreement. Now i dont know what you say about the signing of an agreement but if you say you did not sign an agreement, then id refer them to carey v hsbc which states

Para 53(11)

If he does and for example asserts positively that although he has been using a credit card agreement for years he never actually signed an agreement, or one that complied with s61, the creditor may well have to try and find the original in order to deal with that allegation.

So that means that in my view, the creditor when faced with such an allegation needs the original agreement or some strong evidence to prove there was a signed compliant agreement

Id also refer them to the case of

Devendra Kotecha vs Phoenix Recoveries (court of appeal) which confirmed that to comply with s78 the creditor must provide the complete agreement not just part of it

so i think they best go provide the full information rather than hassling you

[PlanB]

Re: Maui Jim's UE Diary

Well how did / can you agree to something if you never signed anything?

The prescribed terms do say a signature is needed as does Carey. So whilst lack of one doesn't in itself hold much significance, if it went to court they'd then have to provide the signed copy which they'd rely on within the POC.

And if they can't provide it in court (never mind s.78) they're stuffed? (Please say yes)

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Maui Jim's UE Diary

Well how did / can you agree to something if you never signed anything?

The prescribed terms do say a signature is needed as does Carey. So whilst lack of one doesn't in itself hold much significance, if it went to court they'd then have to provide the signed copy which they'd rely on within the POC.

[PlanB]

Re: Maui Jim's UE Diary

This does not have any provision for anything signed, whether digitally (by way of a tick) or otherwise and is therefore 100%

However, if they happen to send the signed agreement to you with terms from when you actually took the account out and not just current ones, it'd then become enforceable.

Niddy, does this mean that a CCA must have at least a 'provision' for the creditor to sign (i.e. a box or dotted line saying "sign here" or a box to tick etc) somewhere on the paperwork in order for it to be enforceable? I know a signature is not required in order to satisfy a s.78 request because creditors (Barclays mostly) keep reminding me of this ad nauseam. So annoying. I've got lots of pretend reconstituted agreements which don't even have empty boxes or dotted lines.

(Sorry to barge in M but I got excited at the prospect of finding another possible get-out clause!)

Plan B x

[mauijim]

Re: Maui Jim's UE Diary

This does not have any provision for anything signed, whether digitally (by way of a tick) or otherwise and is therefore 100%

However, if they happen to send the signed agreement to you with terms from when you actually took the account out and not just current ones, it'd then become enforceable.

basically there is nothing anywhere to suggest you agreed to these terms, moreso they are from 2009, not when you took the account out!

Now that is good news. When I first read it I thought it was looking incorrect but I did panic when it mentioned enclosing my original signed agreement - something that neither of us has found!!

I'll send off the letter as advised in your PS Post - thanks again

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Maui Jim's UE Diary

p.s. send this back: ---> CCA Query - Missing Prescribed Terms

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Maui Jim's UE Diary

12/08/11 A letter in reply to my final CCA request to Bryan Carter (Crapital One) with a reconstituted CCA attached. Strange that I wrote on 18/07/11 and they replied outside of the 12+2 days. I have read it and it almost appears as if they admit it is unenforceable but they are still going to register the debt with credit agencies etc. Well tell me something I don't know! Anyway I will get this to NIDDY and wait for his expert opinion and not trust my amateur one!

This does not have any provision for anything signed, whether digitally (by way of a tick) or otherwise and is therefore 100%

However, if they happen to send the signed agreement to you with terms from when you actually took the account out and not just current ones, it'd then become enforceable.

basically there is nothing anywhere to suggest you agreed to these terms, moreso they are from 2009, not when you took the account out!