Miss-Treated's UE Diary

[Miss-Treated]

Re: Miss-Treated's UE Diary

Thank you Pixie, I do hope so. I don't want to go back to the days of sleepless night.

[Riz]

Re: Miss-Treated's UE Diary

I assume they are default notices under s87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act?

Do they actually mention anything about credit files?

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Miss-Treated's UE Diary

Type of account: Personal Loan
Date commenced: 2005
Balance: £13,500
Last full payment: 2006
Arrangement: None
Status: Defaulted Dec 2006 - Default recorded 2008 - PPI reclaimed.
Account owner: Nat West Bank

Type of account: Current Plus Account
Date commenced: 2001
Balance: was £1900 now £1217
Last full payment: 2006
Arrangement: None
Status: Defaulted Dec 2006 - interest frozen
Account owner: Nat West Bank

Type of account: Advantage Gold (overdraft)
Date commenced: Early 1990s
Balance:was £2750 - now £1174
Last full payment: 2006
Arrangement: None
Status: Defaulted Dec 2006 - Default recorded 2008 - Interest added to 2008
Account owner: Nat West Bank

I have gone through a quiet period with NatWest regarding the three above accounts but the shit hit the fan with today's post.
I could really do with some help now, please.

Briefly (to save you having to read my whole diary):
All three accounts have previously been defaulted (as above).
All have dropped of my credit history.
The loan account is unenforceable - they have lost the Credit Agreement and have told me so.
Both overdrafts are Statute Barred.

Today I received three separate, almost identical, letters from NatWest, all dated 14th August.

Each of them contained a Default Notice giving me until 31st August to remedy the breach.

I know they cannot legally default an account a second time but what really worries me is that these defaults will be filed with the credit reference agencies before I can do anything about it - and I know how hard they are to get removed. My credit record is clean now and I don't need it screwed-up again by these swine.

I intend to write to them tomorrow (signed for) but would really welcome some advice on how to word the letter(s) and what to do next. It has me worried sick.

Thank you for reading. x

Hiya

Do you have a record of the accounts that were defaulted with the CRA's? (i.e. have you printed off the record?).

What you have to remember is that a default notice issued under the consumer credit act (which is what you have received), is a different thing to a default issued to the credit reference agencies so I would suggest that these have been computer generated somewhere.

If you've not already, I would suggest that you establish the status of the accounts that are SB by using the following template:

http://www.all-about-debt.co.uk/inde...barred-england

The ball is then in their court to prove the date that the cause of action accrued

[nightwatch]

Re: Miss-Treated's UE Diary

Hi Miss T,
I would hold fire till you find out IF they have entered a default on your Credit files, they can only default and record it with CRAs once, but they can issue other DNs. If a second one is recorded then it can be argued to get it removed.
It could be they are selling these debts on to a DCA, if they have no DF on file which they won't as it was 8 years ago when it was defaulted they need to issue one to sell/ off load the account ( the gold account should still be on record with the CRA's so that one is easy to argue)
statute barred is 6 years after the final payment so if you last paid july 06 then SB starts from the first missed payment eg Aug 06, but if you have contacted them in the last 6 years and admitted the debt in any way the SB clock is reset. do you know when you last made ANY payment to these accounts
do you have a copy of your credit files showing the Defaults and when they were registered as this can help also
I have had a couple of account's defaulted for a second time and got the default(s) removed with help from this fantastic site,( also got some compensation for the last one)
as pixie says please don't worry, we will help you sort this
NW

S&V types faster tham me xx lol

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Miss-Treated's UE Diary

S&V types faster tham me xx lol

I've been known to wear out a keyboard or two/three/four

[Miss-Treated]

Re: Miss-Treated's UE Diary

I assume they are default notices under s87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act?

Do they actually mention anything about credit files?

The 2 overdraft DNs are issued under sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the Consumer Credit Act. The loan one is issued under section 87(1).

The attached letters all say that "information about your indebetness will be given to the following Credit Reference Agencies": They then list the three CRAs.

[nanna58]

Re: Miss-Treated's UE Diary

Good luck MT x

[nightwatch]

Re: Miss-Treated's UE Diary

The 2 overdraft DNs are issued under sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the Consumer Credit Act. The loan one is issued under section 87(1).

The attached letters all say that "information about your indebtedness will be given to the following Credit Reference Agencies": They then list the three CRAs.

that last line only says Information will be given. it does not say that the Defaults will be Recorded with the following CRAs. that is why I said find out if they have been placed before you go in with all guns blazing. they could just be following protocol before trying to sell them on.
if they are then sold on you can tell whoever gets them they are SB and if they have registered a second default we can help with it's removal.
NW x

[Miss-Treated]

Re: Miss-Treated's UE Diary

Right, thanks for the input everyone - I have moved out of panic mode (for the moment) and have read the letters I received again, much more carefully.

I have given you some incorrect info so here we go now I am thinking a bit more rationally:

The loan letter includes a Default notice issued under Section 87(1) of the CCA. It gives me until 31st August 2014 to remedy (£8148 - as if I could). The attached letter says:
Formal notice of intention to file a default and to take action to recover debt.
Please note that, unless within 28 days of the date of this letter, satisfactory payment or arrangements for payment are made to us in response to the attached default notice, information about your indebtedness will be given to the following Credit Reference Agencies:
Callcredit Information Group Limited
Equifax Europe Limited
Experian Limited

Enclosed with this was a copy of the FCA information sheet: Default.

The two overdraft letters do NOT contain Default Notices (sorry - panic removed my logic). They are in fact Termination Notices issued under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA although the enclosed letters do refer to default - see below. Again the attached letters say:
Formal notice of intention to file a default and to take action to recover debt.
Please note that, unless within 28 days of the date of this letter, satisfactory payment or arrangements for payment are made to us in response to the attached default notice, information about your indebtedness will be given to the following Credit Reference Agencies:
Callcredit Information Group Limited
Equifax Europe Limited
Experian Limited

The two overdrafts both became SB recently - one in May and the other one on 15th of this month. I have not sent SB letters yet.

They have previously defaulted the loan account (2006) and defaulted and terminated both overdrafts (2006). It looks like they are going through the same process again and it will hit my credit files as if they are new debts.

[nightwatch]

Re: Miss-Treated's UE Diary

as I said before they may be trying to sell them on to make some money on them,
They close your account ,Which they can't do unless they have issued a DN,
they claim a tax loss/write off so they get some money back,
they sell the debts on to some unsuspecting DCA,
you start the merry-go-round again with the new DCA.
they don't care if there SB/UE or written in Swahili as long as someone takes them of their hands.
the buyer has no knowledge of the debt, only that they are sold as owing.
hope that makes sense NW

If the loan is still on your credit file then they cannot add another Default

[Riz]

Re: Miss-Treated's UE Diary

Right, thanks for the input everyone - I have moved out of panic mode (for the moment) and have read the letters I received again, much more carefully.

I have given you some incorrect info so here we go now I am thinking a bit more rationally:

The loan letter includes a Default notice issued under Section 87(1) of the CCA. It gives me until 31st August 2014 to remedy (£8148 - as if I could). The attached letter says:
Formal notice of intention to file a default and to take action to recover debt.
Please note that, unless within 28 days of the date of this letter, satisfactory payment or arrangements for payment are made to us in response to the attached default notice, information about your indebtedness will be given to the following Credit Reference Agencies:
Callcredit Information Group Limited
Equifax Europe Limited
Experian Limited

Enclosed with this was a copy of the FCA information sheet: Default.

The two overdraft letters do NOT contain Default Notices (sorry - panic removed my logic). They are in fact Termination Notices issued under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA although the enclosed letters do refer to default - see below. Again the attached letters say:
Formal notice of intention to file a default and to take action to recover debt.
Please note that, unless within 28 days of the date of this letter, satisfactory payment or arrangements for payment are made to us in response to the attached default notice, information about your indebtedness will be given to the following Credit Reference Agencies:
Callcredit Information Group Limited
Equifax Europe Limited
Experian Limited

The two overdrafts both became SB recently - one in May and the other one on 15th of this month. I have not sent SB letters yet.

They have previously defaulted the loan account (2006) and defaulted and terminated both overdrafts (2006). It looks like they are going through the same process again and it will hit my credit files as if they are new debts.

If they put anything back on your credit files then we will give them hell.

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Miss-Treated's UE Diary

I still think theres benefit that you write to them with the SB template letter. Not only does it push on them the burden of proof but you could cause them some mischief if they then do sell the account to a DCA and then also gives you some leverage over them.

See below sections from the new FCA CONC guidelines. While you can question the effectiveness of the FCA's authority over creditors, its still useful to know how creditors should be conducting themselves and should they breach those sections a formal complaint to the FCA, ICO and FOS off the back of their conduct sometimes can be beneficial.

So once you point out the debt is in dispute because it is SB then if the debt is sold, then you make a formal complaint to both companies quoting the sections below, and you also make a formal complaint of their conduct to the FCA, ICO and FOS and inform them you will do so.

If they sell the debt to a DCA, then you can also cause them mischief, as you can then write to the DCA pointing out the fact that you had told the OC the debt was disputed due to being SB.

This has them by the short and curlies, because if the OC did inform the DCA of the SB status, (as per 7.15.9 below), and if the DCA threatens you with legal action then the DCA falls foul of sections 7.11.1 and 7.11.6 (see below).

If the DCA claims that they did not know of the existence of such a dispute then you still have them under section 7.13.5, and you can make a complaint to the OC under 7.15.9 You can also make a formal complaint to the DCA and suggest they take that up with the OC in the event that the OC did not identify to them that it was not SB.

While none of the CONC stuff is legislation, it gives you plenty to beat a creditor over the head with, and also shows them that you are not going to be bullied or intimidated.

Just my 2p's worth


7.15.9

A firm must identify for prospective purchasers of debts arising under credit agreements or consumer hire agreements or P2P agreements those debts which it knows or ought reasonably to know are statute barred, so as to avoid a firm taking inappropriate action against customers in relation to such debts.

Also section 7.13.5 states:

A firm should ensure (subject to any legal requirements) that adequate and accurate information it holds about a customer in relation to a debt is made available to persons involved on its behalf in the debt recovery process. Information relating to the customer which should be made available to agents or employees includes, for example:

1. (1) being in financial difficulties;
2. (2) being particularly vulnerable;
3. (3) disputing the debt;
4. (4) a repayment plan or forbearance being in place;
5. (5) having a representative acting on the customer's behalf.

7.11.1
When contacting customers, a firm must not misrepresent its authority or its legal position with regards to the debt or debt recovery process.


7.11.6
A firm must not suggest or state that action can or will be taken when legally it cannot be taken.

[Miss-Treated]

Re: Miss-Treated's UE Diary

If they put anything back on your credit files then we will give them hell.

Thank you Riz. It is so reassuring to know I am not on my own against these big banks.

[Miss-Treated]

Re: Miss-Treated's UE Diary

Just my 2p's worth

And what a 2p's worth it is!
Thank you S&V

Based on the advice I have received here, it seems I should write to them along the lines of:

1. Remind them that these accounts have previously been defaulted and terminated (with the dates) and that this information was reported to the CRAs at that time.
2. Remind them that they have already written to me saying that an account cannot be defaulted twice.
3. Complain that the have said they intend to, if necessary, take court action, even though they have already written to me confirming they cannot take court action due to having misfiled the original Consumer Credit Agreement.
4. Inform them that the two overdrafts are statute barred (incorporating the AAD template).
5. Warn them against giving inaccurate or inappropriate information to any CRAs.

Does that sound about right?

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Miss-Treated's UE Diary

Are you cast iron positive that they are Statute Barred, Miss Treated?