Tastyjane's UE diary

[SA Gold]

Re: Tastyjane's UE diary

but page 2 must be sitting in a file somewhere in their offices unless they've lost it fingers crossed.....

Jane x

got my fingers crossed for you Jane

[ATW]

Re: Tastyjane's UE diary

That can't comply with s78. Its not a true copy if it has prescribed terms missing. It looks like they have just copied any old T&Cs and blanked out the bits that might show they do not apply to your account. They may as well just blank the whole lot if they are going to cover up the key bits.

[SA Gold]

Re: Tastyjane's UE diary

That can't comply with s78. Its not a true copy if it has prescribed terms missing. It looks like they have just copied any old T&Cs and blanked out the bits that might show they do not apply to your account. They may as well just blank the whole lot if they are going to cover up the key bits.

Result!

[tastyjane]

Re: Tastyjane's UE diary

Thanks Andrew, they have only blanked out the interest rates, names and addresses on the second set of T&Cs which I am taking to be the most current - does your post still apply? Hopefully Niddy will get a chance to look at the things I uploaded to the secure section - feel a little anxious as this is a large debt and the second card is with Marlin!

Jane x

[ATW]

Re: Tastyjane's UE diary

they have only blanked out the interest rates, names and addresses on the second set of T&Cs

Jane x

A s78 request has been clarified to be a request for information. It allows you to see what your rights and obligations are under the contract. One of the key terms of a credit agreement is the rate of interest that will be charged. With no rate of interest on the T&Cs I can't see how they can say they have complied with s78.

[ATW]

Re: Tastyjane's UE diary

S78 CCA 1974 states:

“78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement.E+W+S+N.I.
(1)The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it”

The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 state at regulation 3:
“3 General requirements as to form and content of copy documents
(1) Subject to the following provisions of these Regulations, every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall be a true copy thereof.
(2) There may be omitted from any such copy--
(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;
(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act applies);”

HHJ Waksman said in Carey at paragraph 234 (4)

“If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms;”


The interest rates will therefore need to be included to make the s78 copy complete. It is highly likely that they will have been varied from those in operation when the agreement was entered into. Without them being present in the agreement you cannot check whether the Creditor has run you account properly and charged the correct interest.

I do not see how they can say that what they sent is a "true copy" as per the Copy Documents Regs or how it can be said to follow the Guidance given by Waksman in Carey to give you a copy of the "varied terms" when what they have sent is a partially obscured document.

[ken100464]

Re: Tastyjane's UE diary

Thanks Ken, wonder where I stand with this - Page 2 is not within their pack - I suppose it makes it EU at the moment but as they obviously have just had a drongo photocopying they would easily rectify it....

Is yours enforceable with the second page?

Jane x

Niddy deemed it enforceable. But we are blagging it and the DCA doesnt seem none to sure of its position at all at the moment.

[vint1954]

Re: Tastyjane's UE diary

Indeed Jane, if the relevant page is missing and info redacted, as Elsa says, it will be UE until they comply

[tastyjane]

Re: Tastyjane's EU diary

18.10.13 - well I have received a response from Aktiv with papers numbered 1 - 25 from Canada Square Operations which they are claiming to be my CCA - I will scan the main pages and email to Niddy but I am slightly concerned as they have photocopied them back to back and the page 2 is missing - it goes page 1 of 25 then jumps to page 3 of 25 which is just an A4 sheet which contains my signature and date and a signature box signed on behalf of egg. No where does it list my name or address but I suspect that might have been on page 2 which hasn't been copied..... There is then 8 pages of terms which I am assuming are from the point of the application and 14 pages of terms with all the interest rates and figures blanked out.

Not sure what to do now - I will email to Niddy and hopefully he can give me some ideas.

Jane x

25.10.13 Niddy has confirmed that without page 2 (the actual PT's) this is - I suppose we cannot tell if it would become enforceable if we had page 2 until we do

I am not sure what to do now though - shall I wait until they get in touch again; the letter accompanying the CCA didn't request any payment or anything.

Jane x

[Deepie]

Re: Tastyjane's EU diary

25.10.13 Niddy has confirmed that without page 2 (the actual PT's) this is - I suppose we cannot tell if it would become enforceable if we had page 2 until we do

I am not sure what to do now though - shall I wait until they get in touch again; the letter accompanying the CCA didn't request any payment or anything.

Jane x

Best to send this ---> CCA Query - Missing Prescribed Terms

[tastyjane]

Re: Tastyjane's UE diary

Hi Deepie, thanks for your quick response, reading that letter it says I will send a copy of what they sent me, won't this just highlight to them their cock up and give them the opportunity to include page 2 next time? I only have 12 months till SB on this account so stringing it out as long as I can would be good

jane x

[Deepie]

Re: Tastyjane's UE diary

Hi Deepie, thanks for your quick response, reading that letter it says I will send a copy of what they sent me, won't this just highlight to them their cock up and give them the opportunity to include page 2 next time? I only have 12 months till SB on this account so stringing it out as long as I can would be good

jane x

Just omit that bit and don't attach a copy...

[tastyjane]

Re: Tastyjane's UE diary

Sneaky , I love it - might confuse them as I am sure that they think they have sent the complete thing to me

I'll wait a while (mid week next week do you think?) then send it to them.

Jane x

[Deepie]

Re: Tastyjane's UE diary

Sneaky , I love it - might confuse them as I am sure that they think they have sent the complete thing to me

I'll wait a while (mid week next week do you think?) then send it to them.

Jane x

Sounds good to me...No rush

[ATW]

Re: Tastyjane's UE diary

I defo wouldn't rush with it. You don't want to help them build a case against you.