Dibs UE Diaries

[ScabHunter]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

I have received yet another letter from this lot and my question is this: I know that I have never signed a credit agreement, hence the reason they can't supply an original copy, however, they are stating that a reconstituted copy is all they need to prove the debt in court, so how can they supply a reconstituted copy of something that never existed, isn't that fraud?
I realise that they are not going to go away and will argue every point, but I am reluctant to send a template letter and need to compose a letter that sets out the relevant argument, which in a nutshell is that they have absolutely nothing with my signature!

I'm wondering whether it might be a good time to utilise a CPUTR strategy here. Have you read Priority One's thread on that? If not, here it is -

PriorityOne CPUTR 2008 (ex P1 CAG CPUTR 2008) - allaboutFORUMS

I think a lot of that thread, especially Waksman's assertion that the original would be needed for enforcement, is relevant here.

SH

[Paul.]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

I'm wondering whether it might be a good time to utilise a CPUTR strategy here. Have you read Priority One's thread on that? If not, here it is -

PriorityOne CPUTR 2008 (ex P1 CAG CPUTR 2008) - allaboutFORUMS

I think a lot of that thread, especially Waksman's assertion that the original would be needed for enforcement, is relevant here.

SH

if you never signed an agreement

and you make a positive assertion that you never signed an agreement

Then the creditor will need to produce evidence to rebut that assertion.

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Thank you for the replies.
SH, I have sent the CPUTR 2008 and no joy, (Missed that out,doh!) they confirmed that they had been unable to obtain a copy of the original signed credit agreement and therefore, cannot supply me with it. They then reiterate that the reconstituted copy is sufficient to fulfil the requirements set out under section 77/78 of the CCA, therefore, whether they hold a signed copy or not is not applicable in this instance.

[SXGuy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

That is correct, a recon can be used to satisfy the request, but they need proof of an orignal to obtain a court judgement. Thats the point you rely on.

[Paul.]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

That is correct, a recon can be used to satisfy the request, but they need proof of an orignal to obtain a court judgement. Thats the point you rely on.

not entirely correct

If a positive assertion that you never signed an agreement is not made, then the court could give judgment on a recon supported by witness evidence

I just mention "Iron Mountain Fire" as one reason why they would not have a copy of the signed agreement

[Paul.]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

not entirely correct

If a positive assertion that you never signed an agreement is not made, then the court could give judgment on a recon supported by witness evidence

I just mention "Iron Mountain Fire" as one reason why they would not have a copy of the signed agreement

I just want to add that personally i think it is wrong that the burden to raise unenforceability in great detail rests on the shoulders of the defendant in these cases.

However that is what it is at the moment and until a higher court rules otherwise, were left with it.

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

I couldn't agree more, Paul.

I have often wondered why it is that all the required documents are not prepared and presented to the court by the plaintiff, prior to a summons being issued, which would hopefully ensure that it was at least enforceable, however, clearly I do not have a vast amount of experience of the court system!

Thank you Paul & SXGuy for the replies regards this alleged Citibank account, it's helped me with clarity on my reply to their recent letter.

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

I really should have started these before now!

Capital One

Credit card taken out in 1999

Current dca is Robinson Way
Approx balance outstanding is £1400
Niddy has said that it's UE

August 2007 CCA request sent to Capquest
Last payment August 2007
September 2007 Account returned to Capital One
November 2007 SAR sent to C1
December 2007 Account sold to Robinson Way
Endless correspondence with RW
May 2012 letter from RW stating that the documentation provided is sufficient to prove liability and they will not enter into repetitive correspondence regarding this.
November 2012 Letter from RW stating that the account has been assigned to Hoist Portfolio, however, RW will continue to manage the account, pay up or else!

The letters have become as frequent as snow showers and just as irritating, the last one demanded payment or they may take further action against me!
I sent the CPUTR request again and enclosed a letter asking why they were refusing to answer this request, same reply from them again: "We are satisfied that the documentation provided is sufficient to demonstrate liability and we will not enter into repetitive correspondence regarding this," clearly a template letter, but I really don't know where to go from here?

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

hi Dibs

Just to clarify, what did they send in response to your CCA request...was this a recon? Did Niddy tell you on what basis it's UE?
I know you didn't sign anything for the Citibank account, does that apply to the Cap One account too?

Elsa x

[cardiac arrest]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

not entirely correct

If a positive assertion that you never signed an agreement is not made, then the court could give judgment on a recon supported by witness evidence

I just mention "Iron Mountain Fire" as one reason why they would not have a copy of the signed agreement

just to clarify...filling in and and signing an application form, will never stand in the place of actually signing an agreement, will it..as a lot of us only ever get back application forms when doing a CCA request ?

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Good Morning Elsa,

RW have only sent a copy of an application form in reply to my CCA request and it is only the application form that I have signed.

I did SAR C1 in 2007, they sent a copy of the application form, a template default notice and a copy of t&c's, they stated the default notice date as 2004, but did not enclose the actual copy, also statements which show several charges of £20 for each overlimit payment fee and late payment fee, however, they only total a little over £200.

Dibs x

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Hi Dibs,
Thanks hun...
Apart from CPUTR, what was the last template from here you sent them...missing prescribed terms? ?

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Hi Elsa,
Yes, it was this one: http://www.all-about-debt.co.uk/temp...lity/s2-t1.php
Always the same reply from them, it's enforceable and they will not engage in repetitive correspondence, maybe I should write the same to them, as they churn out weekly letters!
Thank you for your help Elsa.
x

[SXGuy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Hold on, lets not get carried away, ive not seen this application form, but i do think theres some misconseption going on here.

An application form, is also an agreement, providing it ticks the right boxes.

It must state that its a consumer credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974, if it says this, its an agreement.

Next it must contain the prescribed terms, either on the same document, or another, but must make reference to that document.

and lastly, you must realise the difference between complying with a CCA Request, and whether it could be used to enforce in court, as its two different things.

[cardiac arrest]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Hold on, lets not get carried away, ive not seen this application form, but i do think theres some misconseption going on here.

An application form, is also an agreement, providing it ticks the right boxes.

It must state that its a consumer credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974, if it says this, its an agreement.

Next it must contain the prescribed terms, either on the same document, or another, but must make reference to that document.

and lastly, you must realise the difference between complying with a CCA Request, and whether it could be used to enforce in court, as its two different things.

Even when the form says...'when completing this application. etc....' ?