TenCount's UE sequel

[TenCount]

Yep, I do realise that they'll follow me to the grave. But they drop off my credit file early next year, so I'm hoping I'll be able to live a bit again before I die!

(Joke)

I've been fortunate, I know - living abroad then and the OCs not being arsed to communicate with me via email (when I'd asked them to) in the first few years obvs took a lot of the sting out what would be the normal experience.

I am prepared to go for set aside if one of the carousel DC firms get around to sending me any meaningful correspondence before Jan 2021, it would just be a drag to have to do it so close to those black marks dropping off my credit file.

[Colin G Quinn]

Hi TenCount,

You need to tread very carefully if you are considering a set aside application.

If you want to apply to set aside a Judgment you are expected by the Court to have done so as promptly as possible after finding out about the Judgment, or at least as promptly as possible after finding out that there is a procedure for setting aside Judgment. You would be required to explain this in a witness statement in support of any Application, and you also need to apply for what is known as relief from sanction.

The Judgments won't 'follow you to the grave'. They will fall away after 6 years. A creditor can enforce the Judgments through the Court at any point during that 6 year period, and there is a process for them to apply to enforce a Judgment outside of the 6 year period.

So applying to set them aside now may be something you want to consider. I haven't had a chance to read your earlier posts and so I don't know the ins and outs of what the Judgments relate to, or their values. I'll have a look when I do get a chance.

[PlanB]

I just wanted to (hopefully) draw a line under this.

Fortunately I was able to get my Tenancy Saver Loan - it took almost 2 months to arrange, but it was very helpful indeed. My previously amicable letting agent/landlord did (as someone here predicted) lose patience as the time dragged on and, worse, did instruct a solicitor to begin possession proceedings. But now all arrears have been paid the landlord has agreed to withdrawn the case, so I did manage to "keep a roof over my head", as someone put it earlier in the thread.

I have heard nothing else regarding the crazy CCJs from 2016, so with a tiny bit of luck time will run out on those very shortly.

That is such good news about your Tenancy Saver Loan which will definitely help to protect the roof over your head.

I'm sorry your agent/Landlord instructed a solicitor to issue possession proceedings (as I predicted) which must have been so stressful. Shame on them!

I think you should draw a line under all this and enjoy the moment not worry about the 'what ifs'.

Best of Luck

Di

[TenCount]

Hi TenCount,

You need to tread very carefully if you are considering a set aside application.

If you want to apply to set aside a Judgment you are expected by the Court to have done so as promptly as possible after finding out about the Judgment, or at least as promptly as possible after finding out that there is a procedure for setting aside Judgment. You would be required to explain this in a witness statement in support of any Application, and you also need to apply for what is known as relief from sanction.

The Judgments won't 'follow you to the grave'. They will fall away after 6 years. A creditor can enforce the Judgments through the Court at any point during that 6 year period, and there is a process for them to apply to enforce a Judgment outside of the 6 year period.

So applying to set them aside now may be something you want to consider. I haven't had a chance to read your earlier posts and so I don't know the ins and outs of what the Judgments relate to, or their values. I'll have a look when I do get a chance.

Thank you Colin. I was being light-hearted there with my grave remark, but I realise now that it may have come across poorly to readers of the forum, and I do apologise for that.

I was also perhaps being a bit too flippant about the set aside process - if my situation were different, I would leap at the opportunity to investigate those black marks on my credit file.

But as one of your colleagues (I think) said earlier in the thread, as it stands there is a compelling argument to let sleeping dogs lie.

[Colin G Quinn]

Hi,

No need to apologise, I wasn't offended, I was just trying to reassure you.

Ok, no problem. If that is what you have been advised. As I say, I hadn't had the chance to read through the thread.

[TenCount]

Hi,

No need to apologise, I wasn't offended, I was just trying to reassure you.

Ok, no problem. If that is what you have been advised. As I say, I hadn't had the chance to read through the thread.

Thanks for that. In fairness, I was very torn when I started the thread - and still am, a bit - but every month closer to 2022 makes it harder to choose action over leaving things as they are and hoping my luck holds out.

[Roger]

Thanks for that. In fairness, I was very torn when I started the thread - and still am, a bit - but every month closer to 2022 makes it harder to choose action over leaving things as they are and hoping my luck holds out.

These DBA's are driven by commercial decisions to maximise their assets(unpayable Debts). Their interest includes your ownership of assets such as property even inheritance, wages/salary etc.. Nice to know that your welfare and well being is a matter of interest to these circling vultures!!
Bit like farming! Eyeing up the fatted calf for profit!

The idea is to stay at the bottom of their to do list! If they are engaged with letter ping-pong elsewhere thats all to the good. But you will find that there is most likely to be a flurry of last minute threats , phone calls, sms, letters and this is par for the course!
Be silent BUT vigilant

[TenCount]

These DBA's are driven by commercial decisions to maximise their assets(unpayable Debts). Their interest includes your ownership of assets such as property even inheritance, wages/salary etc.. Nice to know that your welfare and well being is a matter of interest to these circling vultures!!
Bit like farming! Eyeing up the fatted calf for profit!

The idea is to stay at the bottom of their to do list! If they are engaged with letter ping-pong elsewhere thats all to the good. But you will find that there is most likely to be a flurry of last minute threats , phone calls, sms, letters and this is par for the course!
Be silent BUT vigilant

Thanks Roger, that sounds like a story from the sharp end. But, yes, I am braced for a flurry, as you put it, before I can consider myself free.

[TenCount]

This is not strictly on topic, but I'm pretty confident one of the members here will know the answer:

if a County Court claim for possession on a rented property is made and the Defendant then correctly enters their N11B defence form by the deadline date, and the day after that the Claimant decides to drop the case (e.g. because a settlement has been agreed):

[1] does any record of the case simply disappear into the ether? (esp. for the purposes of the Defendant's credit file), and
[2] does the the Claimant's solicitor have to submit a standard form (N279?) to withdraw/discontinue?

Sad to say, I don't really trust my landlord or my letting agent...

[PlanB]

if a County Court claim for possession on a rented property is made and the Defendant then correctly enters their N11B defence form by the deadline date, and the day after that the Claimant decides to drop the case (e.g. because a settlement has been agreed): . . . . does any record of the case simply disappear into the ether?

Sad to say, I don't really trust my landlord or my letting agent...

I think it all depends on how the Claimant decided "to drop the case" such as leaving it stayed or agreed to discontinue once arrears paid etc.

It may also depend on what the Landlord Claimant sought such as possession using section 21 (no fault if the original fixed term of the AST has expired) or possession and rent arrears using Ground 8.

This is a question you need to ask a housing law expert because you need to know where you stand for peace of mind and in case there is anything you can do to prevent a resurrection of those legal proceedings.

Shelter has a free helpline so try that once you've read this on their website > https://england.shelter.org.uk/profe...on_for_tenants

You're right not to trust your Landlord or your letting agent. I'm a Landlord and I don't trust letting agents who look at everything from a commercial/business perspective only. And the solicitor probably did the same since I doubt they worked for free so will want their costs paid by someone.

Shelter's Helpline no > 0808 800 4444 but it's really for urgent advice such as homelessness so hopefully you'll find what you need on their website.

Di

[TenCount]

I think it all depends on how the Claimant decided "to drop the case" such as leaving it stayed or agreed to discontinue once arrears paid etc.

It may also depend on what the Landlord Claimant sought such as possession using section 21 (no fault if the original fixed term of the AST has expired) or possession and rent arrears using Ground 8.

This is a question you need to ask a housing law expert because you need to know where you stand for peace of mind and in case there is anything you can do to prevent a resurrection of those legal proceedings.

Shelter has a free helpline so try that once you've read this on their website > https://england.shelter.org.uk/profe...on_for_tenants

You're right not to trust your Landlord or your letting agent. I'm a Landlord and I don't trust letting agents who look at everything from a commercial/business perspective only. And the solicitor probably did the same since I doubt they worked for free so will want their costs paid by someone.

Shelter's Helpline no > 0808 800 4444 but it's really for urgent advice such as homelessness so hopefully you'll find what you need on their website.

Di

Thanks Di.

I should add that I don't have any kind of problem with landlords per se - my previous one was great - but this current one is obvs some kind of gentleman amateur sort who has a policy of only doing really the barest amount of cheapest-option upkeep/fixing, and then only when dragged to do it by the Agent. So the house (a nice house) is ever so slowly falling apart at different rates all over the place, and has been doing so for years before I got here, I'd guess. I imagine the Agent hates the landlord for being this way and hates me for insisting on trying to hold the landlord to *some kind* of professional standard, so ... frustration all round.

A different discussion, I guess.

Yep, it was a s.21. The AST had run out, so I was on an automatic Stat Periodic Tenancy. I was shielding, then sick, then furloughed, fell behind on rent, had agreed with agent/landlord to pay all arrears by Jun/Jul (as I was able to work again). Agent/landlord backtracked on that, decided to start court case anyway on Jul 1, the twerp.

Arrears paid and case settled now, and I remain in the house, but I can't trust them to have actually properly withdrawn/discontinued the case until I receive formal or court notification of that, which agent/landlord don't seem to want to give me.

Plus, I don't want this hanging over me (or my credit file) - if indeed there is any possibility of that.

[PlanB]

Thanks Di.

Yep, it was a s.21. The AST had run out, so I was on an automatic Stat Periodic Tenancy.

. . . decided to start court case anyway on Jul 1

Arrears paid and case settled now, and I remain in the house, but I can't trust them to have actually properly withdrawn/discontinued the case until I receive formal or court notification of that, which agent/landlord don't seem to want to give me.

This may seem like a silly question, but how do you know the "case has been dropped". Was it a letter from the solicitor and if so exactly what did it say? Or was it a casual phone call from the agent once the rent arrears had been banked?

The next question is when was the s21 Notice served on you, and is/was it valid? Since Covid-19 the rules about how much notice must be given in a s21 have varied from the standard two months up to six months, depending on when it was served.

You can check that out using the flowchart on Nearly Legal, because if the s21 isn't valid then they would have to serve a new one (although don't tell them it's invalid if you discover it is).

Nearly Legal flowchart link > https://nearlylegal.co.uk/section-21-flowchart/

My point being if they don't have a legal leg to stand on (and you don't know that yet) then they won't get very far even if they do decide to revive those proceedings. Obviously the ideal thing is to establish that the proceedings have been discontinued.

Di

[TenCount]

This may seem like a silly question, but how do you know the "case has been dropped". Was it a letter from the solicitor and if so exactly what did it say? Or was it a casual phone call from the agent once the rent arrears had been banked?

The next question is when was the s21 Notice served on you, and is/was it valid? Since Covid-19 the rules about how much notice must be given in a s21 have varied from the standard two months up to six months, depending on when it was served.

You can check that out using the flowchart on Nearly Legal, because if the s21 isn't valid then they would have to serve a new one (although don't tell them it's invalid if you discover it is).

Nearly Legal flowchart link > https://nearlylegal.co.uk/section-21-flowchart/

My point being if they don't have a legal leg to stand on (and you don't know that yet) then they won't get very far even if they do decide to revive those proceedings. Obviously the ideal thing is to establish that the proceedings have been discontinued.

Di

Yes, exactly. As it stands, I only know it has been dropped because the agent has told me so in an email, hence my original questions about this issue. I think I'll get in touch with the court admin tomorrow.

As it happens, I don't think the s.21 was valid because at the beginning of the tenancy the agent hadn't provided me with some of the prescribed information required around the Tenancy Deposit Scheme.

But, as long as they have formally discontinued, then that point is now moot.

Guess I'll find out tomorrow...

[PlanB]

I think I'll get in touch with the court admin tomorrow.

. . . I don't think the s.21 was valid because at the beginning of the tenancy the agent hadn't provided me with some of the prescribed information required around the Tenancy Deposit Scheme.

Definitely wise to contact the court to get the updated information 'from the horses mouth', although they can be slow to deal with paperwork so it may not be on their systems yet.

It'll be hard, but not necessarily impossible, for the Landlord/Agent to remedy the fault of missing information from the start of the tenancy retrospectively. Gas Safety Certificates cause the most problems since they must be given to you before the tenancy start i.e. before you're handed the keys. Leaving the certificate on the kitchen table for you to see upon arrival is not good enough.

If you like where you live and would like to stay then consider whether a new AST (6 months minimum) might remove the uncertainty of being on a Statutory Period Tenancy rolling contract where you can be given notice without any reason.

If the property has 'repair issues' you can invite in your local council's Environmental Health Officer to assess what needs to be done to comply with Health & Safety, and then they can issue an Improvement Notice to force the Landlord to carry out the works within a specific time-frame. This could also frustrate possession proceedings under section 21 while the Notice is outstanding.

However that can create bad feeling between you all so see how this situation unfolds first.

Di

[TenCount]

Definitely wise to contact the court to get the updated information 'from the horses mouth', although they can be slow to deal with paperwork so it may not be on their systems yet.

It'll be hard, but not necessarily impossible, for the Landlord/Agent to remedy the fault of missing information from the start of the tenancy retrospectively. Gas Safety Certificates cause the most problems since they must be given to you before the tenancy start i.e. before you're handed the keys. Leaving the certificate on the kitchen table for you to see upon arrival is not good enough.

If you like where you live and would like to stay then consider whether a new AST (6 months minimum) might remove the uncertainty of being on a Statutory Period Tenancy rolling contract where you can be given notice without any reason.

If the property has 'repair issues' you can invite in your local council's Environmental Health Officer to assess what needs to be done to comply with Health & Safety, and then they can issue an Improvement Notice to force the Landlord to carry out the works within a specific time-frame. This could also frustrate possession proceedings under section 21 while the Notice is outstanding.

However that can create bad feeling between you all so see how this situation unfolds first.

Di

Thanks Di - the Environmental Health Officer stuff is very helpful. There are a ton of maintenance issues here, which agent/landlord are aware of but have not attended to. I haven't forced the issue because of covid/shielding/arrears, etc.

I think the time has come to push on that.

Also: I've heard from the court today that the landlord's solicitor has requested, effectively, a 3 month stay on proceedings to see that I adhere to the agreement I made with them (pay arrears + pay 3 months advance rent) to *discontinue* proceedings, as detailed in my N11B defence form.

So now I'm really confused - seems to me they're effectively asking the court to put a 3 month stay on discontinuance, with that dependant on an agreement the terms of which *I have already satisfied*. Maybe I'm missing something...