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  • ad_p's UE diary (SB dates almost in sight)

    Hi all,

    Hope you are all looking forward to the long weekend. I actually meant to start a diary some months ago, but there were site problems at the time, so I have returned Would really appreciate any advice on upcoming steps, with SB not so far away. As is the same for many, I unfortunately got into significant debt while going through very difficult personal circumstances.

    Diana Mayhew Great to see you here. We briefly crossed paths in another forum some years back. I've always appreciated / remembered the advice you give and your willingness to help others.


    No 1 - HALIFAX / ARROW GLOBAL LIMITED
    • Type of account - CC
    • Start date - 21 Dec 2012
    • Approx balance - £9750
    • Last payment - Mid 2015
    • Status - Default (23 Nov 2015)
    • Owner - Arrow Global Limited
    • Agreement and T&C's sent to Niddy, which he says look

    This is the largest of the debts, and the most pressing. Originally with Halifax, then sold on to Arrow Global Limited in June 2017 (managed by Capquest at the time).

    Subsequently managed by Restons (I don't have a notice of assignment on file)

    (Nov 17) - Letter received from Restons Solicitors, of their having been instructed to issue court proceedings.

    (Dec 17) - Pre-action letter received from Restons Solicitors. Also mentioned that 'no further interest or further charges are being applied by the creditor to this account', which conveniently keeps the amount below £10k and in the small claims track.

    (Dec 17) - Due to advice at the time from another forum, I ticked box (letter I "I need more documents or information") and requested I be sent 1) a copy of the contract, including all items and conditions, 2) A list of all transactions, showing how the ~£9750 figure was calculated, 3) copies of any notices of assignment, 4) copies of any relevant deeds of assignment and 5) a copy of the default notice. I also sent a CCA request to Arrow Global Limited separately, while advising of my new address.

    (Jan 18) - Arrow Global Limited advised they had received the CCA request, advising they were not the creditor, according to CCA 1974 statute, and would request docs from the creditor.

    (Feb 18) - Arrow Global Limited responded with a response to the CCA request, advising they were enclosing:
    1. a copy of the agreement
    2. a copy of the t&c's
    3. a copy of the originator's statements
    They commented that according to OFT guidance, reconstituted agreements were acceptable. Various statements were received, what looks like familiar (and genuine) t&c's, a (reconstituted?) agreement with identical text as the t&c's, but with a tick for a signature at the end, from both user and Halifax; in addition to a couple of missed payments letters from September and November 17. No default notice was present.

    It was at this point that I expected Restons to contact me again and to continue their claim, but all in fact went silent.

    (Apr 18) - Statement received from Arrow Global Limited, with apology for not providing a statement covering the period between my last statement from Bank of Scotland and when they purchased the account.

    (Oct 18) - Statement received from Arrow Global Limited, with apology for not keeping me up to date by sending regular statements.

    (Sep 19) - Statement received from Arrow Global Limited.

    (Oct 20 - Approx) - It's possible that a letter was received from Arrow Global Limited, advising of management being transferred to Moorcroft, but cannot be certain.

    (Nov 20) - Letter received from Moorcroft giving me two options - 1) agree an affordable repayment plan, or 2) telephone them for a discount ("partial settlement figure").

    (Mar 21) - Letter received from Arrow Global Limited to advise that management was being transferred to drydensfairfax solicitors.

    (Mar 21) - Letter received from drydensfairfax solicitors, asking me to pay the full balance or appropriate recovery action will be taken. Told to contact them by 8th April.

    (Apr 21) - Agreement and T&Cs previously received from Arrow Global sent to Niddy who suggests are enforceable.

    (Apr 21) - Letter received from drydens suggesting their client may be willing to consider a significantly reduced offer to settle the account, followed swiftly by a further comment that if they do not hear from me by 16th April, they will be issuing me with a Letter of Claim.

    -

    It would be great to have some advice on how to respond at this point. The debt isn't SB until late November 21, so still around 8 months away, but a concern to receive fresh contact from Arrow Global at this point.

    I'm curious why Arrow Global/Restons didn't continue their claim in 2018. I'm tempted to send a SAR now to Halifax/Lloyd's, to see what info they have, but in particular if there is any reference to a default notice there. Would this be wise though, along with a copy to drydensfairfax, considering the 8 months to go until SB? It seems to me that drydensfairfax are gearing up to make a claim. I wonder if Arrow Global still have the same docs they provided to me before (mentioned above).

    I have all the docs mentioned above, so happy to attach to this / future posts if needed.
    Last edited by ad_p; 9 April 2021, 20:39.

  • #2
    No 2 - NATWEST / CABOT CREDIT MANAGEMENT GROUP LIMITED
    • Type of account - CC
    • Start date - 23 Dec 2012
    • Approx balance - £6500
    • Last payment - Mid 2015
    • Status - Default (01 July 2015)
    • Owner - Cabot Credit Management Group Limited

    Earliest communication I can find is:

    (Jul 15) - Letter received from Westcot, asking for payment of the alleged debt, having been instructed by their client The Royal Bank of Scotland Plc.

    (Aug 15) - Follow letter received from Westcot, more of the same, along with a nice update that should they do not hear from me, they will continue to undertake activity including phone calls, texting and lettering to recover the account on behalf of The Royal Bank of Scotland Plc.

    (Aug 15) - Letter received advising that in attempt to close this matter, the client has 'agreed we can offer a discount to settle your account'.

    (Aug 15) - Follow up letter giving me an opportunity to 'take control of this outstanding balance in a way that suits' me.

    (~Jul 20) - Some kind of welcome letter received from Cabot I think, which I'm trying to locate (can't so far for some reason)

    (Jun - Oct 20) - Various emails received from Cabot, who 'understand my situation' and are 'happy to help'.

    (Jan 21) - Resolvecall visit (left card as we weren't home).

    (Mar 21) - Two text messages received from BPO out of the blue, asking me to contact them on X number, giving X reference. I didn't connect this with Cabot at the time, but thought it could be related to a delay with paying corporation tax (makes no sense in hindsight, as I would have received a letter in which case, or heard from the company who do our business accounts). I foolishly phoned BPO, who asked me to confirm various details initially, such as name, date of birth, address (I think) etc.

    I pushed back at the time, mentioning how I was resistant to giving details to them, without knowing what it was about, but they mentioned it was required for data privacy reasons, so he could provide more info. He eventually revealed he was calling on behalf of Cabot, who are now the legal owners of the debt. There was back and forth, but the only thing I really revealed was that this debt was in dispute and that I wanted to communicate in writing instead, so there was a paper trail. He seemed to suggest he would go back to Cabot and request a copy of the agreement, thinking this would be sufficient for any dispute. He also asked whether it was the amount that was in dispute.

    I don't think I was particularly strong with a yes or no, but only that the debt was in dispute and the desire to instead communicate only by writing.

    I have heard nothing since. As far as I'm aware, I have never seen a copy of the agreement, default notice, or anything else. I haven't sent a CCA request though, so there is no reason I should have. I don't know if I ever received a default notice from Natwest. It's due to be SB on 1st July, going by the default date on my credit file.
    Last edited by ad_p; 3 April 2021, 21:27.

    Comment


    • #3
      No 3 - HSBC / ARROW GLOBAL LIMITED
      • Type of account - Current Account
      • Start date - 04 Apr 2008
      • Approx balance - £2700
      • Last payment - 2014/2015
      • Status - Default (02 November 2015)
      • Owner - Arrow Global Limited

      (Jun 15) - Various letters received from HSBC regarding the overdrawn balance (above agreed overdraft amount).

      (Oct 16) - Letter from Arrow Global advising management of the account was being transferred to Moorcroft Debt Recovery Limited

      (Dec 16) - Letter received from Moorcroft, advising that their client have informed them of being able to offer me a substantial discount.

      (Mar 17) - Letter received from Arrow Global, advising that management of the account has been transferred to Restons Solicitors Limited.

      (Apr 17) - Letter received from Restons Solicitors advising of a potential court claim.

      (May 17) - Claim form received.

      (Jun 17) - CCA request sent to Arrow Global (in case other debts 'rolled' into one sum, but more for their inconvenience with needing to respond. I had an HSBC credit card, but was unused). CPR 3.14 sent to Restons, asking for a copy of the contract, t&c's, copies of any notices and deeds of assignment. SAR sent to HSBC. Defence also submitted.

      (Jun 17) - Letter received from Arrow Global, acknowledging the CCA request, denying they are the creditor, according to CCA act, and for part V of the CCA 1974 not applying, due to it being an overdraft (I know this has recently changed however, thanks to one of Joanna/DI's posts). £1 postal order also returned, as expected.

      (Jun 17) - Letter received from the court, acknowledging receipt of my defence.

      (Jun 17) - Letter received from Restons Solicitors noting my submitted defence, then proceeding to tell me how they don't view it has any real prospect of success, threatening they will recommend to their client that an application be made to strike it out and enter summary judgement against me. Suggesting strongly I withdraw my defence, to save me from further costs that would be incurred otherwise. They were kind enough to also attach the required N9A admission form to do so.

      (Jul 17) - SAR data received at a local HSBC branch (2 boxes worth).

      (Dec 17) - Letter received from Restons Solicitors, advising that their client have instructed them to put forward a settlement offer. The offer was around £2k (inclusive of legal fees and costs), so a fairly small discount.

      Nothing further received from Arrow Global / Restons , as far as I am aware, so no agreement, t&c's, transactions. I do have a couple of boxes of data received from the SAR request though, which I still need to go through.

      Last edited by ad_p; 3 April 2021, 01:07.

      Comment


      • #4
        No 4 - BARCLAYCARD / HOIST PORTFOLIO HOLDING 1 LIMITED
        • Type of account - CC
        • Start date - 03 Jun 2010
        • Approx balance - £4700
        • Last payment - 2014?
        • Status - Default (September 2015)
        • Owner - Hoist Portfolio Holding 1 Limited

        (Sep 18) (earliest communication I can find) - Notice of assignment received from Hoist Finance UK Holdings 1 Limited, with the account being assigned by Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Limited.

        (Mar 19) - 'Pre-Legal Assessment' received from Robinson Way, advising that the account meets their initial criteria to be considered for legal action, and needing to understand my individual circumstances.

        (Apr 19) - Letter of claim received from Howard Cohen & Co. Solicitors, acting for Hoist Finance UK Holdings I Limited, informing me of their intention to issues proceedings. Letter also advises that the debt originates from a written agreement from 2010, as well as the account being legally assigned in September 2018.

        (May 19) - Box D ticked, along with Box I, requesting information related to the alleged debt, such as default notice, copy of the notice of assignment, all transactions etc. CCA request sent separately to Hoist (do not have a record of this letter however). As far as I understand, none of these were ever received.

        (May 19) - Acknowledgement of CCA request received from Robinson Way.

        (May 19) - Letter from Robinson Way, advising that they have processed my request for the credit agreement, and that the account would remain on hold until they receive a 'copy of the requested documents'.

        (Nov 20) - Letter received from Robinson Way, advising that they have been notified I am no longer at the address (I am), and that they would like to let me know that according to credit report data, it shows that I am in fact resident at the address. They ask me to contact them as soon as possible, so they can 'help' me.

        Nothing further received. As mentioned, the entry disappeared from my credit file (TransUnion) at some point last year I think, but wasn't due to be SB until September 2021, based on the default date listed in there before, which seemed accurate.

        Last edited by ad_p; 3 April 2021, 01:08.

        Comment


        • #5
          No4 will have disappeared as these have to disappear off your credit file on 6th anniversary from defaulted date. So the others will disappear in the coming months. Doesn’t mean the debts have disappeared, and given that they are perhaps nearing SB is the reason you have seen an increase in activity from the leeches. Once over the SB line then the leeches can’t take it to court, can still pester but have no authority behind them to force you to pay.

          Comment


          • #6
            last attempt to get something comes to mind? if so sure then they would of dealt with this ages ago?

            sit on hands and do nothing but update diary unless a claim form etc arrives, no need for a SAR to awaken them at the moment sure Di or one of the others will advise if and when to ask for something, ??
            I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

            If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi

              Looking at No 1 the Halifax CC. When you were sent a letter of claim you ticked box 1 saying you admit the debt- is that correct? This may have some impact on the limitations period. It may be that this account will not be SB now until December 2023 or did I misunderstand what you said about replying to the previous letter of claim. If you have the agreement available it may be worth looking at the clause which says which laws are applicable - England and Wales or Scotland.

              AG are correct that reconstituted agreements are acceptable but in 2018 it was the FCA and not the OFT. They should have sent you a copy of the agreement and terms and conditions when you took put the card and also the terms and conditions when you defaulted. It might be worth sending them to webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk and ask Niddy to look at them. Put a link to this thread within the email.
              PlanB

              I was wondering about the DN

              If Niddy comes back saying the CCA request is enforceable you could send another CCA request and see if they come up with the same.

              Lets see what Di says about sending a SAR- if they do issue a claim you will certainly need to send one. It is possible they may issue a new letter of claim.

              The default dates on the others- are they the dates on your credit file or the expiration dates of S87(1) Default Notices.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ad_p View Post
                Diana Mayhew Great to see you here. We briefly crossed paths in another forum some years back. I've always appreciated / remembered the advice you give and your willingness to help others.

                What a nice thing to say

                I hope I can give you useful advice again - I'll take a look at your thread tomorrow and make some suggestions.

                Di

                I don't give advice, I share wisdom. Whenever the chips are down there's always a Plan B

                I'm a fully qualified mother which is the hardest exam I've ever sat. I have other more formal qualifications which are less important


                I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

                Comment


                • #9
                  No 1 - HALIFAX / ARROW GLOBAL LIMITED

                  Originally posted by Warwick65 View Post
                  Looking at No 1 the Halifax CC. When you were sent a letter of claim you ticked box 1 saying you admit the debt- is that correct?
                  hey Warwick. thanks for the advice.

                  apologies, I have updated my Halifax post. It was actually the letter I, rather than 1 that I selected, so no admission of the debt, thankfully.

                  the default dates on the others are indeed those as listed on my credit file (TransUnion). I'm going to add info to those posts today. no 2 (Natwest) is quite active, in that I have been receiving communication recently from Cabot and their managing agent (BPO), which is maybe not surprising with the SB date the closest. BPO's tactics seem a little sneaky to me also.
                  Last edited by ad_p; 3 April 2021, 00:56.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Forgive me if I sound thick but I need to get it clear in my head.
                    In section 1 of the reply form you ticked option D ‘ I dispute the debt ‘ or even C ‘ I don’t know whether I owe the debt I need more info’ and asked for the documents you mention. You DID NOT send letter 1 of the 3 letter process( if you don’t know what that is , probably for the best).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      No 1 - HALIFAX / ARROW GLOBAL LIMITED

                      Originally posted by Warwick65 View Post
                      In section 1 of the reply form you ticked option D ‘ I dispute the debt ‘ or even C ‘ I don’t know whether I owe the debt I need more info’ and asked for the documents you mention.
                      I see now that I was only looking back at the section 3/4 page of the claim form, where I ticked box 'I' along with listing the documents I was requesting. For section 1 of the form I ticked C 'I don't know whether I owe the debt'.
                      Last edited by ad_p; 3 April 2021, 00:55.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That’s all good then. So we are looking at Nov this year hopefully for SB. I will look again tomorrow

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No 1 - HALIFAX / ARROW GLOBAL LIMITED

                          Originally posted by Warwick65 View Post
                          If you have the agreement available it may be worth looking at the clause which says which laws are applicable - England and Wales or Scotland.
                          I can't see any specific reference to this clause. The only thing I can see in the T&C's Arrow have sent is the following

                          We will not be liable if we break this agreement because of: - our obligations under UK or European Community Law.
                          I'll email over the received agreement and t&c's to Niddy today, with a link to the forum post, as suggested.

                          HALIFAX, NATWEST, HSBC and BARCLAYCARD above posts edited with info and timeline.
                          Last edited by ad_p; 3 April 2021, 08:55.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            No 1 - HALIFAX / ARROW GLOBAL LIMITED

                            Hi all, an update on the above account. I today received the attached letter from drydensfairfax, who first suggest the potential for a 'significantly reduced amount' to settle the account, followed not long after with a threat to issue me with a Letter of Claim, should I not respond by 16th April.

                            What is the best way to proceed here? Would now be a good time to send over a SAR to Halifax? The agreement I was sent a couple of years ago from Arrow Global was recently deemed enforceable by Niddy, but there are of course more ways than one to challenge any claim.

                            Thanks

                            Last edited by PlanB; 9 April 2021, 16:33. Reason: removed letter to protect identity

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Personally I think they are playing the fear card, as you pointed out they have done this before then shy’d away from following through which suggests they haven’t got what they really need to succeed.
                              it would be in my opinion wise to establish what is exactly in the file with respect to Halifax, but remember just because something derogatory may be in there, doesn’t mean the clueless can get their grubbies on it.

                              if you are strong enough then you can sit it out and see if another a claim arrives. I suspect that they’ll probably write to you again asking for payment first. ??
                              As TTC has suggested it could be a last ditch attempt to make you blink?
                              PlanB

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