F19FOX's UE diary

[F19FOX]

I'm not sure which debt is being discussed but if an arranged overdraft facility has been renewed annually since 2012 then s 78 CCA may apply (running-account credit agreement).

Di

Thanks Di,

Yes you are correct and it has been renewed annually. It's for my debt #1 Smile (Co-Op bank) overdraft.

[F19FOX]

Not until they send the OP a formal Letter Before Claim giving them 30 days to respond.

At least that's what the new (1st October last year) Pre-Action Protocol says they should do.

Di

Thanks Di. I will keep an eye out on the post but hopefully I won't receive anything from them

[F19FOX]

F19FOX's account number 4

SANTANDER - ORIGINALLY ABBEY

• Type of account - Credit card
• Date commenced - 11th May 2009
• Approx balance - £4,294
• Date last 'full' payment - 30th Oct 2015
• Arrangement - not paying
• Status - defaulted 6th May 2016
• Account owner - Santander

2015
OCT26/10 Advice from Stepchange (SC) to set up temporary payment arrangements of £1 with each of my creditors as my income is less than my expenses.
30/10 Posted SC templated temporary payment arrangement letters to all creditors offering £1 per month token payments. Included budget and list of creditors.
7/11 Letter from Santander saying I have missed payment
13/11 Resent temporary payment letter + budget + list of creditors


2018
APR 27/4 Wrote to Santander to request copy of CCA
MAY20/5 I am pretty sure this was originally an Abbey credit card which was later rebranded to Santander. Thanks for the memory nudge Di
25/5 SAR letter posted to Santander
25/5 6 monthly statement received from Santander
29/5 SAR request signed for receipt from Royal Mail
JUN 2/6 cancelled all payments as nil response to CCA request
5/6 letter received from Santander acknowledging my SAR letter + committing to providing the information within 28 days
29/6 SAR response received from Santander. Comprising - cover letter (headed DPA 1988! Have they not heard of GDPR?), one pager credit agreement, one page DDM and 4 pages of transactions. Very surprised that there were no statements (even though I have received several from them previously) and no credit report which I requested in my SAR letter to them. Also interesting the credit agreement is in the name of Abbey!
SEP 22/9 letter received from Santander dated 17th Sept saying my account will now be managed by Robinson Way and to please speak to them from now on about my account. They will have a long wait
OCT 1/10 ltr received from Robinson Way dated 26th Sept confirming they are now managing my debt and asking me to contact them to agree an affordable plan .. blah blah blah ..ZZZZZZZZZZZZ
26/10 CCA response received back from Santander dated 23rd Oct. Niddy says it's enforceable
27/10 letter received from Robbers Way dated 22nd Oct asking me to contact them blah blah blah ..
NOV 25/11 SOA received from Santander
DEC 24/12 letter received from Robbers Way dated 19th dec 2018 saying help available- balance reduction offer but no actual offer and instead asking me to call them. Filed.

2019
APR 15/4 Letter from Santander saying my account is now being managed by Drydensfairfax Solicitors. Interestingly the contact number they have given to call them starts with 0133 (ie an invalid code!) so I couldn't call them even if I wanted to .. which of course I don't! Filed.
MAY 1/5 Letter from Drydensfairfax Solicitors dated 26th April asking me to contact them to make payment + I should not underestimate the seriousness of this matter! Filed.

I've just received a letter from Drydensfairfax solicitors asking me to contact them as they have been instructed by Santander to obtain repayment or take appropriate recovery action if I fail to pay. It seems to be just a threatening letter at the moment and says it is most important that I respond by 10th May.

I assume therefore the recommended action is to do nothing other than file their letter and wait to see what happens?

Thanks!

[F19FOX]

F19FOX's account number 4

SANTANDER - ORIGINALLY ABBEY

• Type of account - Credit card
• Date commenced - 11th May 2009
• Approx balance - £4,294
• Date last 'full' payment - 30th Oct 2015
• Arrangement - not paying
• Status - defaulted 6th May 2016
• Account owner - Santander

2015
OCT26/10 Advice from Stepchange (SC) to set up temporary payment arrangements of £1 with each of my creditors as my income is less than my expenses.
30/10 Posted SC templated temporary payment arrangement letters to all creditors offering £1 per month token payments. Included budget and list of creditors.
7/11 Letter from Santander saying I have missed payment
13/11 Resent temporary payment letter + budget + list of creditors


2018
APR 27/4 Wrote to Santander to request copy of CCA
MAY20/5 I am pretty sure this was originally an Abbey credit card which was later rebranded to Santander. Thanks for the memory nudge Di
25/5 SAR letter posted to Santander
25/5 6 monthly statement received from Santander
29/5 SAR request signed for receipt from Royal Mail
JUN 2/6 cancelled all payments as nil response to CCA request
5/6 letter received from Santander acknowledging my SAR letter + committing to providing the information within 28 days
29/6 SAR response received from Santander. Comprising - cover letter (headed DPA 1988! Have they not heard of GDPR?), one pager credit agreement, one page DDM and 4 pages of transactions. Very surprised that there were no statements (even though I have received several from them previously) and no credit report which I requested in my SAR letter to them. Also interesting the credit agreement is in the name of Abbey!
SEP 22/9 letter received from Santander dated 17th Sept saying my account will now be managed by Robinson Way and to please speak to them from now on about my account. They will have a long wait
OCT 1/10 ltr received from Robinson Way dated 26th Sept confirming they are now managing my debt and asking me to contact them to agree an affordable plan .. blah blah blah ..ZZZZZZZZZZZZ
26/10 CCA response received back from Santander dated 23rd Oct. Niddy says it's enforceable
27/10 letter received from Robbers Way dated 22nd Oct asking me to contact them blah blah blah ..
NOV 25/11 SOA received from Santander
DEC 24/12 letter received from Robbers Way dated 19th dec 2018 saying help available- balance reduction offer but no actual offer and instead asking me to call them. Filed.

2019
APR 15/4 Letter from Santander saying my account is now being managed by Drydensfairfax Solicitors. Interestingly the contact number they have given to call them starts with 0133 (ie an invalid code!) so I couldn't call them even if I wanted to .. which of course I don't! Filed.
MAY 1/5 Letter from Drydensfairfax Solicitors dated 26th April asking me to contact them to make payment + I should not underestimate the seriousness of this matter! Filed.

Just received another letter from Drydensfairfax solicitors (dated 13th May but received today) demanding that 'to avoid further action, payment of £4292.11 must be made to this office within the next 7 days'


I assume this is another threat to get me to make contact? Can someone please confirm that for now I'm OK just to sit tight, file it and see what happens next?

Thanks!

[F19FOX]

F19FOX's account number 4

SANTANDER - ORIGINALLY ABBEY

• Type of account - Credit card
• Date commenced - 11th May 2009
• Approx balance - £4,294
• Date last 'full' payment - 30th Oct 2015
• Arrangement - not paying
• Status - defaulted 6th May 2016
• Account owner - Santander

2015
OCT26/10 Advice from Stepchange (SC) to set up temporary payment arrangements of £1 with each of my creditors as my income is less than my expenses.
30/10 Posted SC templated temporary payment arrangement letters to all creditors offering £1 per month token payments. Included budget and list of creditors.
7/11 Letter from Santander saying I have missed payment
13/11 Resent temporary payment letter + budget + list of creditors


2018
APR 27/4 Wrote to Santander to request copy of CCA
MAY20/5 I am pretty sure this was originally an Abbey credit card which was later rebranded to Santander. Thanks for the memory nudge Di
25/5 SAR letter posted to Santander
25/5 6 monthly statement received from Santander
29/5 SAR request signed for receipt from Royal Mail
JUN 2/6 cancelled all payments as nil response to CCA request
5/6 letter received from Santander acknowledging my SAR letter + committing to providing the information within 28 days
29/6 SAR response received from Santander. Comprising - cover letter (headed DPA 1988! Have they not heard of GDPR?), one pager credit agreement, one page DDM and 4 pages of transactions. Very surprised that there were no statements (even though I have received several from them previously) and no credit report which I requested in my SAR letter to them. Also interesting the credit agreement is in the name of Abbey!
SEP 22/9 letter received from Santander dated 17th Sept saying my account will now be managed by Robinson Way and to please speak to them from now on about my account. They will have a long wait
OCT 1/10 ltr received from Robinson Way dated 26th Sept confirming they are now managing my debt and asking me to contact them to agree an affordable plan .. blah blah blah ..ZZZZZZZZZZZZ
26/10 CCA response received back from Santander dated 23rd Oct. Niddy says it's enforceable
27/10 letter received from Robbers Way dated 22nd Oct asking me to contact them blah blah blah ..
NOV 25/11 SOA received from Santander
DEC 24/12 letter received from Robbers Way dated 19th dec 2018 saying help available- balance reduction offer but no actual offer and instead asking me to call them. Filed.

2019
APR 15/4 Letter from Santander saying my account is now being managed by Drydensfairfax Solicitors. Interestingly the contact number they have given to call them starts with 0133 (ie an invalid code!) so I couldn't call them even if I wanted to .. which of course I don't! Filed.
MAY 1/5 Letter from Drydensfairfax Solicitors dated 26th April asking me to contact them to make payment + I should not underestimate the seriousness of this matter! Filed.

Just received another letter from Drydensfairfax solicitors (dated 13th May but received today) demanding that 'to avoid further action, payment of £4292.11 must be made to this office within the next 7 days'


I assume this is another threat to get me to make contact? Can someone please confirm that for now I'm OK just to sit tight, file it and see what happens next?

Thanks!

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Just received another letter from Drydensfairfax solicitors (dated 13th May but received today) demanding that 'to avoid further action, payment of £4292.11 must be made to this office within the next 7 days'

If DrydensFairfax intend to take legal action then under Pre Action Protocol they must send you a 'Letter of Claim' first which gives you 30 days to respond (or not) before they should issue legal proceedings.

I can see that you've posted this Santander credit card was originally opened by you as an Abbey National account, so did the credit agreement which they (Sandanter) sent you reflect that?

Di

[F19FOX]

If DrydensFairfax intend to take legal action then under Pre Action Protocol they must send you a 'Letter of Claim' first which gives you 30 days to respond (or not) before they should issue legal proceedings.

I can see that you've posted this Santander credit card was originally opened by you as an Abbey National account, so did the credit agreement which they (Sandanter) sent you reflect that?

Di

Hello Di

I hope all is well with you and thank you for your comments. That's re-assuring to hear and thus far they have not sent me a Letter of Claim.

With regards the credit agreement, the copy they have supplied me with is headed up 'Abbey copy' in the top left and has an 'Abbey part of the santander group' logo in the top right. The actual text is harder to decipher because the copy is a bit out of focus but it looks like the small print says it's a credit agreement between Santander cards limited and myself. Is this helpful to my case?!?

Many thanks

Foxy

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

the credit agreement, the copy they have supplied me with is headed up 'Abbey copy' in the top left and has an 'Abbey part of the santander group' logo in the top right. The actual text is harder to decipher because the copy is a bit out of focus but it looks like the small print says it's a credit agreement between Santander cards limited and myself. Is this helpful to my case?!?

It would need to be legible

Have you ever received a Default Notice for this account?

Di

[F19FOX]

It would need to be legible

Have you ever received a Default Notice for this account?

Di

Hi Di,

Thank you for your comments and posting!

Well I seriously struggle to read the small print .. and I am literally referring to the CCA being typed in very small print! .. but the situation is made much worse because it is out of focus.

It's interesting that you ask if I have ever received a default notice on this account. Stupidly I used to throw away all correspondence I received from Santander (and all my other credit card providers), not realising how important all that paperwork might be. Now of course I keep everything! However when I did a SAR to Santander all they sent me back was 8 pages in total and there was not a default notice enclosed. Four of the pages were dedicated to listing transactions on the account, with the final transaction dated 4th April 2016 saying Notice of Sums in Arrears which of course was before the default date of 6th May 2016 (courtesy of Experian!). So I know the account is defaulted but I have no evidence of a default notice being served.

I hope that helps

Thanks

Fox

[The Tech Clerk]

if not already checked by Niddy on here send a copy of the CCA (no crossing out etc) to webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk quoting this thread he will advise if enforceable or not?

[F19FOX]

if not already checked by Niddy on here send a copy of the CCA (no crossing out etc) to webmaster@all-about-debt.com quoting this thread he will advise if enforceable or not?

Thanks Tech Clerk,

Niddy has already seen it and deemed it be to enforceable. His eyesight must be a lot better than mine

Foxy

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

send a copy of the CCA (no crossing out etc) to webmaster@all-about-debt.com quoting this thread he will advise if enforceable or not?

Niddy's email address is webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk not webmaster@all-about.debt.com

Di

[The Tech Clerk]

Whoooppssss

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

when I did a SAR to Santander all they sent me back was 8 pages in total and there was not a default notice enclosed. Four of the pages were dedicated to listing transactions on the account, with the final transaction dated 4th April 2016 saying Notice of Sums in Arrears which of course was before the default date of 6th May 2016 (courtesy of Experian!). So I know the account is defaulted but I have no evidence of a default notice being served.

It's Santander (or any subsequent debt purchaser) who needs the evidence not you

Jo explains it here >

Whether or not a DN has to be issued before a creditor is able to make a claim

If the credit agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA) and is a running account agreement such as a credit card or current account overdraft or a Hire Purchase or Conditional Sale Agreement then a Default Notice which is compliant with S.87(1) and S.88 of the CCA must have been served, allowed at least 14 days from service to remedy the alleged breach before the whole balance can be called up as being due for payment and the agreement terminated.

Whether the SB clock can't start until a DN is issued

If the credit agreement is regulated by the CCA and is a running account agreement such as a Credit Card or Current Account Overdraft then a CCA compliant Default Notice must have been served and expired before the Statute Barred clock starts ticking.

If the regulated credit agreement is a fixed term loan, Hire Purchase Agreement or Conditional Sale Agreement then once the term of the loan has expired and no more payments are made then the Statute Barred clock starts ticking. There is no need for a Default Notice to be served for Statute Barred purposes. However if the creditor has served a CCA compliant Default Notice in order to terminate he loan early then the Statute Barred clock starts ticking subject to further payments or an acknowledgment of debt not being made.

Does the creditor have a free reign to issue a first DN years after the last payment or last contact

The short answer is no and if they put it on your credit file then they will have to remove it !


However we have seen many cases sadly where the creditors ignore the above when dealing with individual consumers knowing that any claim has to be properly defended.

Check that Transaction List to see if it mentions anything about a DN being issued, because if it's not in the log then it didn't happen.

If a reconstituted DN is subsequently produced then there would be an issue with the 'honesty and integrity' of the document.

Di

[F19FOX]

It's Santander (or any subsequent debt purchaser) who needs the evidence not you

Jo explains it here >





Check that Transaction List to see if it mentions anything about a DN being issued, because if it's not in the log then it didn't happen.

If a reconstituted DN is subsequently produced then there would be an issue with the 'honesty and integrity' of the document.

Di

Hi Di,

Thank you for your post - an interesting read!

I have double checked the transaction log from Santander and there is definitely no mention of a default notice being issued. When they sent me the SAR response, Santander helpfully numbered each page xx of 8 and I received all 8 pages so I am not missing anything they have sent me.

So if I am correctly interpreting the information that you sent from Jo, the SB clock has not yet started ticking? Is that therefore a bad thing for me??.. or am I missing the point and you are saying it is a good thing because they haven't served a DN and therefore the debt is UE?

Thanks Di

Foxy