scottygees UE diary

[Colin G Quinn]

It is often overlooked by Creditors/Claimants just how important the method of service of a Default Notice is (if indeed one was ever served), i.e. first or second class post.

If during the course of Proceedings the Claimant produces a Default Notice that is all very well and good, however if the notice was not served in time to allow a Consumer at least the minimum amount of time to remedy the alleged breach, the notice is defective and the agreement will have likely been incorrectly terminated and the Claim should fail as the Claimant has no right to call in the full balance.

An argument often put forward by a Claimant in response may be that even though the Consumer wasn't given the correct amount of time to remedy the breach on the face of the Default Notice itself, the agreement wasn't actually terminated on the day after the date specified in the notice for compliance and therefore the Consumer was granted more than the required amount of time.

That stance requires what can often be complex arguments in Court (if a case reaches that stage) and is obviously where Joanna Connolly Solicitors can assist.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Now back to Di

I'm going to suggest Colin when it comes to explaining the necessity of compliant Default Notices which he does here >

The Consumer Credit Act provides a full balance cannot be called in before service of a compliant Default Notice has been effected, and the term within expired. So, there is a chance a mistake has been noticed hence the reluctance to serve a Default Notice now, as said notice would be calling in the full balance and not arrears due to the premature termination.

Of course the last outpost retreat for a Creditor, and usually an alleged assignee, is to say the loan period has matured, therefore service of a Default Notice is irrelevant. But an Act of Parliament, installed for the protection of Consumers, doesn't say that.

If no Default Notice has been served and no Default registered against you, I would suggest the Creditor knows the alleged Agreement to be unenforceable. As service of a Default Notice is the very strict precondition for the enforcement of a regulated Credit Agreement.

Di

[Warwick65]

What I meant by service was the time the law allows from posting a letter to it legally been received. As most default notices are sent 2nd class it is 4 days however not every judge believes this ?? So for a DN where you have 14 days to correct it most people calculate 14 days + 4 for service . Hope that makes sense. Now back to Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

15/01/2020- as expected the LBC (dated 13th January 2020) has been received today from Lowells Solicitors giving 30 days (12th February) to make payment/respond. The letter is actually identical to the previous LBC they issued except for the date of course.

. . . . So once again they have put 3 debts on one LBC, again I don't know if this is the correct legal procedure as none of the debts are linked in anyway. Therefore if this did go to court I would expect them to issue three separate claims.
So that is the current state of play so advice is needed for what to do next and how to fill in the LBC reply.

As you say, this is not unexpected.

Email me the first couple of pages of Lowell's Letter of Claim so I can see what they are planning to claim and why they think they have the right to claim it.

Also email me what documents they have sent you in three separate emails (so I don't get confused ) since they seem intent of claiming three separate unconnected debts in one claim.

I know you've previously sent me some documents but I want to be certain that I'm looking at the right paperwork.

Di

[scottygees]

Have you sent it to Niddy for opinion?


Somewhere there is legislation about a DN

Your name
There name

The clause breached
How much is owed ( which has to be correct)

The date this must be paid by which is 14 days from service.

There is some debate on how long service is but say 18 days from the date on the letter

If it’s like mine it was laughable

So Niddy looked over the J Williams agreement last year and said it was unenforceable but only due to the fact he couldn’t read it, which is probably down to my scanning of the documents as I have just been looking at it again and it is clear to me. It is post 2007 so is likely to be enforceable. Is Niddy able to confirm whether the DN is correct?

excuse the Ignorance but what do you mean by how long Service is?

[Warwick65]

Have you sent it to Niddy for opinion?


Somewhere there is legislation about a DN

Your name
There name

The clause breached
How much is owed ( which has to be correct)

The date this must be paid by which is 14 days from service.

There is some debate on how long service is but say 18 days from the date on the letter

If it’s like mine it was laughable

[scottygees]

Just a couple of comments.

Your Vanquis DN , is that enforceable? I mean is it set out correctly, the one I had was so defective.

The JD Williams that you think is UE because of no signature, there is no need for a signature on a CCA request but...when was the account opened?

Thanks for the reply. I really wouldn’t know if the DN is set out correctly, how would I tell, how should it be laid out?

i was under the impression the J W Williams CCA was unenforceable due to no sig or date obviously this isn’t the case and looking at the agreement again it looks legible. According to Lowell’s the account was opened on the 10th April 2012, though this date isn’t reflected on the Agreement I have.

[Warwick65]

Just a couple of comments.

Your Vanquis DN , is that enforceable? I mean is it set out correctly, the one I had was so defective.

The JD Williams that you think is UE because of no signature, there is no need for a signature on a CCA request but...when was the account opened?

[scottygees]

15/01/2020- So as expected the LBC (dated 13th January 2020) has been received today from Lowells Solicitors giving 30 days (12th February) to make payment/respond. The letter is actually identical to the previous LBC they issued except for the date of course.


So once again they have put 3 debts on one LBC, again I don't know if this is the correct legal procedure as none of the debts are linked in anyway. Therefore if this did go to court I would expect them to issue three separate claims. So I will try and break this down nto the three separate debts to try and make it clearer:

Vanquis

Previously it was suggested I request the default notice for the Vanquis account of which they unduly replied and unfortunately it is a true copy of the one I received following my SAR request to Vanquis. As I also have an enforceable CCA is there anything else I can request or am I just going to have to suck this debt up and arrange a payment plan?

J Williams

As things stand I believe the CCA they sent me is unenforceable as the copy they sent me when i requested it hasn't been signed or dated by myself. The LBC states they can provide a copy of the CCA upon request. Though I am not sure that is the prudent thing to do. I do have a default notice for this account on file dated 25th July

EE

This is only £95 so I am not too concerned about this even though I am not sure whether I owe this or not as it goes back to an agreement I took out in 2005 supposedly.

As stated in a previous post I really cant remember how the account was opened. If I was to hazard a guess I would say online but I cant be sure. I don't know how phone contract agreements work but I was with EE for a while and would be pretty confident I would have upgraded after a couple of years, so not sure whether this would constitute a new agreement each time I upgraded or not in which case I am not sure the agreement i signed in 2005 would be the one that the debt is against. Lowells solicitors have previously argued the agreement isn't regulated by the Consumer credit act and therefore the original creditor is not required to retain a copy of the agreement. They have stated in their correspondence that they can however provide copies of the terms and conditions though I am not sure what that proves.

So that is the current state of play so advice is needed for what to do next and how to fill in the LBC reply. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than myself will be able to help me make that decision and advise any further documentation I can request to prolong this journey.

Once again thanks in advance.

PS Lowells must be busy as they have assigned one of my wifes debts to their solicitor to potentially instigate legal action as well!!

Sorry for the ramble!

[scottygees]

Thanks for the prompt reply Di, we did speak about this back in July/August when the original LBC was received from Lowells solicitors and I have sent you a private email so you can see the trail of the email conversations we have previously had.

I did send a SAR to Vanquis but I cant for the life of me find where I filed it. ( I will do some more digging)
The J Williams account balance is approx. £1100
As far as the EE contract is concerned I really cant remember how the account was opened. If I was to hazard a guess I would say online but I cant be sure. I think the problem with the EE account is that new handsets would have been taken out at renewal stage and new contracts possibly signed. My guess is that the actual EE package against the debt wont have anything directly to do with the contract signed in 2005. i.e different phone different allowances etc.

***UPDATE***

SAR documents now located. The Default notice is the same as what Lowells have sent me.

[scottygees]

Have you sent a Subject Access Request to Vanquis to discover what data they hold on you, so you can see if that Default Notice is 'honest and accurate'? If not send them one now. A Default Notice is different from a Default registered on your CRA file.

How much is the balance of the J. D. Williams debt (sorry if you've posted it somewhere else on this thread)?

How did you open the EE mobile account in 2005? And also how did the account end? Were you still in the minimum contract and/or did you give notice? Was there a handset involved?

Di

Thanks for the prompt reply Di, we did speak about this back in July/August when the original LBC was received from Lowells solicitors and I have sent you a private email so you can see the trail of the email conversations we have previously had.

I did send a SAR to Vanquis but I cant for the life of me find where I filed it. ( I will do some more digging)
The J Williams account balance is approx. £1100
As far as the EE contract is concerned I really cant remember how the account was opened. If I was to hazard a guess I would say online but I cant be sure. I think the problem with the EE account is that new handsets would have been taken out at renewal stage and new contracts possibly signed. My guess is that the actual EE package against the debt wont have anything directly to do with the contract signed in 2005. i.e different phone different allowances etc.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

letter received from Lowells solicitors dated 27th December 2019. They have included a notice of default for the Vanquis debt. This is dated 15th May 2014. They have also once again included the Vanquis CCA and a list of all Vanquis transactions.

On top of this they have also sent what looks like the letter of assignment for the EE account (dated 11/06/2018) and an EE bill from Feb 2016.

The letter confirms what they have sent and confirms the balances of all 3 debts and gives me 14 days to respond from the date if the letter.0nce again it states further action may be taken which may result in a claim form being issued and costs added to the debts.

So just to confirm it would look like following on from me asking for further documents when the LBC was received back in July they have now been able to find the Default notice for the Vanquis account. Though my credit report does show a different default date.

The J Williams account CCA they previously sent doesn't have a signature or date on it, so is currently unenforceable I believe.

They haven't actually complied with my request for a copy of my EE contract just sent the assignment letter.

Have you sent a Subject Access Request to Vanquis to discover what data they hold on you, so you can see if that Default Notice is 'honest and accurate'? If not send them one now. A Default Notice is different from a Default registered on your CRA file.

How much is the balance of the J. D. Williams debt (sorry if you've posted it somewhere else on this thread)?

How did you open the EE mobile account in 2005? And also how did the account end? Were you still in the minimum contract and/or did you give notice? Was there a handset involved?

Di

[scottygees]

VANQUIS

• Credit Card
• Date commenced -not known
• Approx balance £1002
• Date last paid -Sept 2010
• Are you on arrangement or not paying-DMP but no payment since Feb 2017
• Status -Default 31/8/2015
• Account owner-DLC

9/6/17-letter recd confirming they have been instructed by vanquish to collect balance and require me to contact them
26/6/17-letter recd offering a 50% reduction on outstanding balance
13/7/17-CCA request made
17/7/17-CCA request delivered and signed for
12/8/17-letter recdfrom DLC dated 1/8/17 stating they are only collectors and that I need to send request directly to Vanquis.They have returned the postal order. Any advice or should I just now send the request to Vanquis
17/08/17-CCA request made to Vanquis
19/08/17-CCA request delivered and signed for
01/09/17-CCA received from Vanquis dated 30/08/17.Awaiting advice
02/09/17-CCA sent to Niddy who confirms it is enforceable . Will await further contact from DCA before deciding what course of action to take.
11/12/17-Letter recd from Vanquis confirming now assigned to Lowell. Introducing letter recd from Lowell in the same envelope.
2/1/2018-letter received dated 28/12/17 from Lowell’s please contact us to arrange a a payment plan we are here to help. No action taken
27/01/18-Letter recd from Lowell’s they may look at referring for legal action.Best way to stop this is by contacting us to discuss affordable repayment plan.This letter also refers to JD Williams account
(01/02/18-SWID sent special delivery to Lowell’s
13/02/18-letter recd fro Lowells account on hold for 40 days until they can provide the CCA.
21/3/18-Letter and CCA recd from Lowell’s.This is an exact copy of the one Niddy has already said is enforceable. I assume no further action to take at this stage apart from await their next letter?
21/3/18- further letter recd from Lowell’s account on hold until 18th April to give me time to review the CCA they sent.
4/4/18-SAR request issued to Vanquis
19/4/18-letter received from Lowell’s.We are more than happy to help, please call us, Stepchange recommendations etc etc
4/5/18-letter from Lowell’s- no contact. Further action to be taken if no contact made
10/5/18-Letter received from Lowell’s dated 4/5/18 stating they haven’t heard from me , contact to make arrangements but this time saying they WILL take further action to recover debt if no contact made. I still haven’t received the SAR from Vanquis and have noticed the cheque hasn’t been cashed though I do have proof of delivery. How much longer should I give the SAR and if it isn’t received should I take any further action?

20/5/18-Letter received from Lowell’s stating they will now be passing the account to their collections department or one of our approved collections agencies. I was under the Impression Lowell’s were the Collection agency? They are also offering a 30% discount which can be paid in instalments. Any advice about the Collection agency part of my post?
3/12/18-letter recd from Lowell’s offering 20% discount
17/12/18-letter recd from Lowell’s confirming no payment is too big or too small, outlining payment examples
16/1/19-letter recd from Lowell’s “deciding our next steps” please respond by 31/1/19
25/5/2019-Pre Legal assessment letter received from Lowell’s regarding both the above accounts. Stating they would still prefer to work with me to set up affordable repayment. It then goes on to outline what legal action means.
29/6/19-letter received from Lowell and Lucas Credit . So it disappear Lowell have now instructed Lucas Credit to take collection action . !have letter is quite threatening and confirms they will instruct Lowells solicitors to take legal action if no solution can be found. So I currently have a SAR request outstanding for the vanquis account. Any advice on how to proceed will be greatly appreciated. Also why would Lowells i struck another company to instruct their own solicitors to take action?
5/7/19-letter before claim (LBC) received from Lowells Solicitors dated 2/7/19.
This LBC covers 3 debts Vanquis, J Williams and also a £95 EE mobile account from sometime in 2005. Should they have sent 3 individual letters as the reply form isn't really set out in a way to cover each individual debt.
I cant say I am surprised I have received this as my last few entries have indicated this was on the horizon. So they are requesting full payment in 30 days from date of letter.
So I am guessing at this stage there is a specific way in which to deal with this claim? I will be honest unless I have a concrete defence I wouldn't want this to get to court, however at the same time I don't have any spare funds to settle this and would only have limited resource to pay in instalments.





J Williams
4/4/18- CCA requested
12/4/18-Letter received from Lowell’s confirming receipt of CCA request.await their response
20/6/18-CCA received from Lowell’s giving until 16th July to respond with any queries
20/6/18-CCA sent to Niddy who confirmed as it isn’t legible and has no date or signature.
12/18-letter recd from Lowell’s offering 20% discount
17/12/18-letter recd from Lowell’s confirming no payment is too big or too small, outlining payment examples
16/1/19-letter recd from Lowell’s “deciding our next steps” please respond by 31/1/19
25/5/2019-Pre Legal assessment letter received from Lowell’s regarding both the above accounts. Stating they would still prefer to work with me to set up affordable repayment. It then goes on to outline what legal action means.

29/6/19-letter received from Lowell and Lucas Credit . So it disappear Lowell have now instructed Lucas Credit to take collection action . !have letter is quite threatening and confirms they will instruct Lowells solicitors to take legal action if no solution can be found. So the J Williams account CCA is not signed or dated so was deemed unenforceable. Any advice on how to proceed will be greatly appreciated. Also why would Lowells i struck another company to instruct their own solicitors to take action?

5/7/19-letter before claim (LBC) received from Lowells Solicitors dated 2/7/19.
This LBC covers 3 debts Vanquis, J Williams and also a £95 EE mobile account from sometime in 2005. Should they have sent 3 individual letters as the reply form isn't really set out in a way to cover each individual debt.
I cant say I am surprised I have received this as my last few entries have indicated this was on the horizon. So they are requesting full payment in 30 days from date of letter.
So I am guessing at this stage there is a specific way in which to deal with this claim? I will be honest unless I have a concrete defence I wouldn't want this to get to court, however at the same time I don't have any spare funds to settle this and would only have limited resource to pay in instalments.


CCA STILL OUTSTANDING

31/12/2019- Happy New Year letter, sorry further letter received from Lowells solicitors dated 27th December 2019. They have included a notice of default for the Vanquis debt. This is dated 15th May 2014. They have also once again included the Vanquis CCA and a list of all Vanquis transactions.

On top of this they have also sent what looks like the letter of assignment for the EE account (dated 11/06/2018) and an EE bill from Feb 2016.

The letter confirms what they have sent and confirms the balances of all 3 debts and gives me 14 days to respond from the date if the letter.0nce again it states further action may be taken which may result in a claim form being issued and costs added to the debts.

So just to confirm it would look like following on from me asking for further documents when the LBC was received back in July they have now been able to find the Default notice for the Vanquis account. Though my credit report does show a different default date.

The J Williams account CCA they previously sent doesn't have a signature or date on it, so is currently unenforceable I believe.

They haven't actually complied with my request for a copy of my EE contract just sent the assignment letter.

Is there any further advice I can be given with how to deal now they have provided in part what I requested. My thoughts are they will now issue another LBC.

[scottygees]

I’ve got your email

Di

Hi Di got a response from Lowell’s. Have sent you a PM.

[scottygees]

LBC reply received and signed for by Lowell’s on 31st July