The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Littlewoods (Shop Direct):

• Type of account - Catalogue Account
  
  
• Date commenced - Early/Mid 2007 (not sure exactly)
  
  
• Approx balance - Approx £750
  
  
• Date last full payment - August 2010?
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying - Arrangement (stopped DMP payments July 2012)
  
  
• Status - Default notice received
  
  
• Account owner - Lowell

Key:
Blue - Communication Sent
Red - Communication Received

13/8/2012 - Letter received from Lowell asking what they can do to help
21/8/2012 - Payment break letter sent
13/8/2012 - Letter received from Lowell demanding payment in full or £30 a month
3/9/2012 - Letter from Lowell suspending collection
2/11/2012 - Letter from Lowell asking me to contact them to make a payment arrangement
15/11/2012 - Letter from Lowell demanding payment in full
11/12/2012 - Letter from Lowell threatening doorstep collection or possible court action
17/12/2012 - CCA Request sent
17/12/2012 - Made payment to bring balance under £750
3/1/2013 - Letter from Lowell confirming CCA request received and waiting on documents from Littlewoods
10/1/2013 - Letter from Lowell stating CCA being looked for and demanding full payment

Letter from Lowells yesterday. SDG are looking for my agreement 'from their archives' and they state that once they provide me with the CCA they will be demanding payment in full.

Well they can demand what they want they will not be getting it.

At the very least, even if its not UE, I doubt very much that the agreement allows provision for them to be able to apply a charge just because they could not contact me by telephone. So I will be disputing the account based on unreasonable charges.

Lowell could be chasing both a UE debt and one based on unreasonable charges very shortly!

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Littlewoods (Shop Direct):

• Type of account - Catalogue Account
  
  
• Date commenced - Early/Mid 2007 (not sure exactly)
  
  
• Approx balance - Approx £750
  
  
• Date last full payment - August 2010?
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying - Arrangement (stopped DMP payments July 2012)
  
  
• Status - Default notice received
  
  
• Account owner - Lowell

Key:
Blue - Communication Sent
Red - Communication Received

13/8/2012 - Letter received from Lowell asking what they can do to help
21/8/2012 - Payment break letter sent
13/8/2012 - Letter received from Lowell demanding payment in full or £30 a month
3/9/2012 - Letter from Lowell suspending collection
2/11/2012 - Letter from Lowell asking me to contact them to make a payment arrangement
15/11/2012 - Letter from Lowell demanding payment in full
11/12/2012 - Letter from Lowell threatening doorstep collection or possible court action
17/12/2012 - CCA Request sent
17/12/2012 - Made payment to bring balance under £750
3/1/2013 - Letter from Lowell confirming CCA request received and waiting on documents from Littlewoods
10/1/2013 - Letter from Lowell stating CCA being looked for and demanding full payment
17/1/2012 - Letter from Lowell - still looking for the CCA

Quick update - SDG still trying to retrieve a CCA from their archives.......

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Halifax/IF:

• Type of account - Credit Card
  
  
• Date commenced - Years and years ago!
  
  
• Approx balance - Approx £800
  
  
• Date last full payment - Unknown
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying - Not paying (already established UE)
  
  
• Status - Defaulted though no DN received
  
  
• Account owner - Capquest
  

Key:
Blue - Communication Sent
Red - Communication Received

2/5/2012 - CCA Request Sent
7/6/2012 - Letter from Halifax/If stating that they cannot find my credit agreement and will not try to enforce the agreement while they try to find it
June 2012 - Numerous letters from Wescot making threats
2/7/2012 - Letter to Wescot - Account Sold While In Dispute
7/10/2012 - Letter from Halifax/If stating account transferred to Capquest
19/10/2012 11:05 - Telephone call from Capquest
25/10/2012 - Introduction letter from Capquest
26/10/2012 - Letter to Capquest - Account Sold While In Dispute
26/10/2012 08:50 - Telephone call from Capquest
29/10/2012 - Letter to Capquest - Telephone harassment at work letter
2/11/2012 - Letter from Capquest asking for £1 for CCA request!
13/11/2012 14:38 - Telephone call from Capquest
17/11/2012 - Threat-O-Gram from Capquest
21/11/2012 - Letter to Capquest - Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | Final Response - Unenforceability (No CCA Received)
1/12/2012 - Letter from Howard Cohen Solicitors stating that court action may be taken
10/12/2012 - Another Letter to Capquest - Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | Final Response - Unenforceability (No CCA Received)
17/12/2012 - Letter from Capquest acknowledging complaint and stating account is on hold
17/12/2012 - Letter from Capquest offering reduced settlement figure
5/1/2013 - Letter from Capquest responding to complaint
23/1/2013 - Letter from IF rejecting complaint

Hi All

So today get the following letter from IF in response to my Final Response letter to Capquest. Content as follows:

Dear Mr SnV

Thank you for taking the time to contact us about your complaint. I am concerned to hear about the problem you've had with your Intelligent Finance credit card. Please accept my apologies for the inconvenience and upset that we've caused you.

My understanding of your complaint is:

1) You're unhappy we've not provided you with a true copy of your signed credit agreement

2) As a result you don't feel the agreement is enforceable

I've fully reviewed your complaint and I'm now in a position to explain my findings to you.

As we confirmed in our letter dated xx/xxx/2012 our procedure is, and always has been, to obtain a customers signature to an agreement that detail the relevant terms and conditions relating to the credit card before entering into a credit card agreement.

Even if the agreement is not enforceable, it is clear from case law, this only prevents one party from enforcing the agreement through the courts; it does not prevent collections activity or the placing of information on the credit file.

As such repayment of the outstanding balance on your credit card will still be required. Please contact the debt management company, Capquest, on 08700843501 to arrange a payment plan.

I hope I've explained why I believe we haven't made a mistake. I appreciate that my decision may not be the one you wished for, but I hope you understand the reasons for it.

Theres some stuff then about contacting the FOS blah blah if I'm still unhappy with their decision.

So although they say it was always their procedure to obtain a signature there is still no acknowledgement that this procedure may not have been followed as has also been demonstrated in recent case law!

They also still admit that if the agreement is not enforceable (which it is not) that the only thing they can do is continue 'collection activity' and mark my credit file (which they already have).

So what bets that I am going to contact Capquest?

I'll wait and see what the Capquest threat-o-gram churns out next and see if it makes any reference to court action, in which case I'll send another complaint letter as their client admits in their letter above that such action cannot be taken!

Best
SnV

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Lloyds TSB:

• Type of account - Current Account/Overdraft
  
  
• Date commenced - Early/Mid 2007 (not sure exactly)
  
  
• Approx balance - Approx £800
  
  
• Date last full payment - August 2010?
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying - Arrangement (stopped DMP payments July 2012)
  
  
• Status - Default notice received
  
  
• Account owner - Collection with Apex Credit Management (still owned by Lloyds TSB)
  

Key:
Blue - Communication Sent
Red - Communication Received

26/7/2012 - Letter received from BLS Collections. One liner stating that I must contact them TODAY

1/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS Collections. I appear to be in arrears on my payment arrangement. Unless I bring my arrangement back on track within 10 days they may take further action to collect the full balance.

7/8/2012 - Sent OD CCA Request - allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - Overdrafts - CCA Information

16/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS stating that while they control account no interest will be accruing
16/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS stating that if I wish to make a payment then could I please contact them by phone
24/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS Collections. One liner stating that I must contact them TODAY
17/10/2012 - Notice from Lloyds TSB that account has transferred to Apex Credit Management Limited for collection
17/10/2012 - Introduction letter from Apex Credit Management
3/1/2013 - Letter from HL Solicitors threatening legal action
28/1/2013 - Letter from Apex Credit Management

Letter from Apex Credit Management contents as follows:

Our client has requested we contact you to arrange payment of the full outstanding balance.

We have made enquiries and sources have shown that you are resident at the address on this letter. Our clients have advised that previous attempts to contact you have been unsuccessful and this is potentially your last opportunity to arrange payment before further action will be considered.

Our staff are fully trained to assist you with your current situation and have a range of options to help. If you are unable to pay and are experiencing financial difficulty we strongly recommend that you call us to discuss repayment of your balance.

To prevent this matter becoming unmanageable please contact our offices within 10 days from the date of this letter.

So you have to love the weasel words. I also like the fact that this letter was dated the 18th Jan and has obviously been posted so late that they knew it would be delivered outside of their '10 day' deadline.

I'm going to send a letter to these clowns enclosing the O/D CCA request I sent back in August with proof of the delivery as it was sent RD. I'll ask them to explain why it is their client have not responded to my reasonable request, and why they claim to have not received correspondence when they quite clearly have.

Also going to look at a SAR to dispute the charges placed on this account (I think O/D was only something like £300, rest is charges).

Best
SnV

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Lloyds TSB:

• Type of account - Current Account/Overdraft
  
  
• Date commenced - Early/Mid 2007 (not sure exactly)
  
  
• Approx balance - Approx £800
  
  
• Date last full payment - August 2010?
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying - Arrangement (stopped DMP payments July 2012)
  
  
• Status - Default notice received
  
  
• Account owner - Collection with Apex Credit Management (still owned by Lloyds TSB)
  

Key:
Blue - Communication Sent
Red - Communication Received

26/7/2012 - Letter received from BLS Collections. One liner stating that I must contact them TODAY

1/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS Collections. I appear to be in arrears on my payment arrangement. Unless I bring my arrangement back on track within 10 days they may take further action to collect the full balance.

7/8/2012 - Sent OD CCA Request - allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - Overdrafts - CCA Information

16/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS stating that while they control account no interest will be accruing
16/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS stating that if I wish to make a payment then could I please contact them by phone
24/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS Collections. One liner stating that I must contact them TODAY
17/10/2012 - Notice from Lloyds TSB that account has transferred to Apex Credit Management Limited for collection
17/10/2012 - Introduction letter from Apex Credit Management
3/1/2013 - Letter from HL Solicitors threatening legal action
28/1/2013 - Letter from Apex Credit Management
4/2/2013 - Home Visit Appointment letter from Apex Credit Management
4/2/2013 - Sent OD CCA Request - allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - Overdrafts - CCA Information combined with doorstep letter template

Quick update - doorstep threat from Apex so have sent them a combined letter using both templates also referring back to the fact their client has ignored previous correspondence (lot more letters sent to BLS collections prior to 26/7/2012.

SnV

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Quick update - doorstep threat from Apex so have sent them a combined letter using both templates also referring back to the fact their client has ignored previous correspondence (lot more letters sent to BLS collections prior to 26/7/2012.

SnV

Good luck mate

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Good luck mate

Thanks Niddy

Hopefully will throw a spanner in their works as it won't be the standard letters they usually get!

[vint1954]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Well done S&V. Keep them on their toes

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Well done S&V. Keep them on their toes

Thanks Vint

A few years ago I used to dread the letters coming through the letterbox but now I have a very different attitude.

I actually look forward to the post now, its actually a good day when I get a letter from a DCA that has something original in it!

I also enjoy writing letters to them, its obvious that they cannot respond beyond the templated letters provided to them by their legal department, which means their responses frequently have no relevance to the correspondence thats taken place, meaning I can tie them up in knots and demonstrate unreasonable behavior should it come to that.

I won't be too smug though as it'll come back and bite me in the behind.

The problem with the debt collection industry is that it relies on smoke and mirrors and incorrect public perception of the debt industry to frighten people. Even on television programmes like Eastenders this is re-inforced with people being in debt being shown to be frightened of the 'bailiffs coming to get you' etc.

Once you realize its mainly bovine excrement, you can start getting on with your life again.

Best
SnV

[SA Gold]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

The problem with the debt collection industry is that it relies on smoke and mirrors and incorrect public perception of the debt industry to frighten people. Even on television programmes like Eastenders this is re-inforced with people being in debt being shown to be frightened of the 'bailiffs coming to get you' etc.

Once you realize its mainly bovine excrement, you can start getting on with your life again.

Very true! AAD has certainly opened my eyes. Before i found the forum i relied on a DMP who came out with things like "have you got a car because they might try and take that off you". After a short while of finding the forum i discovered no-one is taking anything off anyone without a court order. This forum really does allow people to find their feet and enable them to gain control over these maggots.

[ken100464]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

The greatest thing about this forum as you say is how it opens your eyes.

Yes you still get the letters and yes any debt could go nuclear and cause grief.

But what knowledge does is enables you to read letters the way more knowledgeable posters probably have been reading them for years.

I have a letter from a very senior member of a particularly nasty bank. In writing he states he is allowed to alter a CCJ debt due to our affordability if he so wants.

8 Months ago I would be seeing that as a threat and be worried about baliffs coming to take the children away. I would probably if he was to ring be trying to save an extra £10 to increase our payments. Probably stop living some more. Causing grief and sadness at home just to pay this leech another £10

Now you think berk, I wonder what judge would be impressed with not referring the matter back to court if they wanted more. Arrogant tosser.

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Lloyds TSB:

• Type of account - Current Account/Overdraft
  
  
• Date commenced - Early/Mid 2007 (not sure exactly)
  
  
• Approx balance - Approx £800
  
  
• Date last full payment - August 2010?
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying - Arrangement (stopped DMP payments July 2012)
  
  
• Status - Default notice received
  
  
• Account owner - Collection with Apex Credit Management (still owned by Lloyds TSB)
  

Key:
Blue - Communication Sent
Red - Communication Received

26/7/2012 - Letter received from BLS Collections. One liner stating that I must contact them TODAY

1/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS Collections. I appear to be in arrears on my payment arrangement. Unless I bring my arrangement back on track within 10 days they may take further action to collect the full balance.

7/8/2012 - Sent OD CCA Request - allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - Overdrafts - CCA Information

16/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS stating that while they control account no interest will be accruing
16/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS stating that if I wish to make a payment then could I please contact them by phone
24/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS Collections. One liner stating that I must contact them TODAY
17/10/2012 - Notice from Lloyds TSB that account has transferred to Apex Credit Management Limited for collection
17/10/2012 - Introduction letter from Apex Credit Management
3/1/2013 - Letter from HL Solicitors threatening legal action
28/1/2013 - Letter from Apex Credit Management
4/2/2013 - Home Visit Appointment letter from Apex Credit Management
4/2/2013 - Sent OD CCA Request - allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - Overdrafts - CCA Information combined with doorstep letter template
8/2/2013 - Letter from Apex Credit Management asking for £1 fee for CCA request

So response from Apex requesting a £1 fee as follows:

Dear SnV

Thank you for your letter in which you have requested documentation under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 with regards to your above noted account.

In order for us to process your request, and in line with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, the statutory fee of £1.00 should be paid in accordance with the Act.

We thank you for your correspondence and regret that at this time we are unable to process your request. On receipt of the mandatory feee we will endeavour to comply with your request.

So whats the best way to respond to this? Shall I write informing them that there is no 'mandatory/statutory' fee as my request is not being made under s77/s78/s79 of the CCA(1974) but rather I am making a request under c.39 (s.74 (A&B) (VA)) CCA(1974).

Or do I send them the £1 payment or send it anyway making the above point?

It certainly demonstrates that they haven't actually bothered to read the letter properly! (Though there was no reference to the 'field agent' visit this time!)

Best
SnV

[ScabHunter]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

So whats the best way to respond to this? Shall I write informing them that there is no 'mandatory/statutory' fee as my request is not being made under s77/s78/s79 of the CCA(1974) but rather I am making a request under c.39 (s.74 (A&B) (VA)) CCA(1974).

Or do I send them the £1 payment or send it anyway making the above point?

If it was me in this situation I would not pay them £1. Firstly, it is not appropriate for the type of request you are making, and may just give them an excuse to claim that you were requesting information under Sections 77-79 which do not apply. Also, if this case was ever to end up in a court, you would have to explain why you had sent a fee which did not apply. It is much better to stick to the exact letter of the law.

I would go here -

Overdrafts - CCA Information - allaboutFORUMS

and scroll down to “Part 2 – The Response”. I would send the short letter suggested there, but I would add one line to the paragraph before the “I look forward....” line at the bottom, saying “Note that the £1 statutory fee you have requested is only applicable to requests made under Sections 77-79 of the Act, and is therefore not required in this case”.

That keeps it squeaky clean and makes sure you are doing everything exactly right.

SH

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

If it was me in this situation I would not pay them £1. Firstly, it is not appropriate for the type of request you are making, and may just give them an excuse to claim that you were requesting information under Sections 77-79 which do not apply. Also, if this case was ever to end up in a court, you would have to explain why you had sent a fee which did not apply. It is much better to stick to the exact letter of the law.

I would go here -

Overdrafts - CCA Information - allaboutFORUMS

and scroll down to “Part 2 – The Response”. I would send the short letter suggested there, but I would add one line to the paragraph before the “I look forward....” line at the bottom, saying “Note that the £1 statutory fee you have requested is only applicable to requests made under Sections 77-79 of the Act, and is therefore not required in this case”.

That keeps it squeaky clean and makes sure you are doing everything exactly right.

SH

Thanks SH

Sounds like a good approach. Also puts the DCA on the back foot as it shows that either they did not read my letter correctly, or they are unaware of the legislation (probably as they only come across normal CCA requests).

Best
SnV

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: The SaltnVinegar UE Diary

Lloyds TSB:

• Type of account - Current Account/Overdraft
  
  
• Date commenced - Early/Mid 2007 (not sure exactly)
  
  
• Approx balance - Approx £800
  
  
• Date last full payment - August 2010?
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying - Arrangement (stopped DMP payments July 2012)
  
  
• Status - Default notice received
  
  
• Account owner - Collection with Apex Credit Management (still owned by Lloyds TSB)
  

Key:
Blue - Communication Sent
Red - Communication Received

26/7/2012 - Letter received from BLS Collections. One liner stating that I must contact them TODAY

1/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS Collections. I appear to be in arrears on my payment arrangement. Unless I bring my arrangement back on track within 10 days they may take further action to collect the full balance.

7/8/2012 - Sent OD CCA Request - allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - Overdrafts - CCA Information

16/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS stating that while they control account no interest will be accruing
16/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS stating that if I wish to make a payment then could I please contact them by phone
24/8/2012 - Letter received from BLS Collections. One liner stating that I must contact them TODAY
17/10/2012 - Notice from Lloyds TSB that account has transferred to Apex Credit Management Limited for collection
17/10/2012 - Introduction letter from Apex Credit Management
3/1/2013 - Letter from HL Solicitors threatening legal action
28/1/2013 - Letter from Apex Credit Management
4/2/2013 - Home Visit Appointment letter from Apex Credit Management
4/2/2013 - Sent OD CCA Request - allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - Overdrafts - CCA Information combined with doorstep letter template
8/2/2013 - Letter from Apex Credit Management asking for £1 fee for CCA request
9/2/2013 - Letter from HL Solicitors. It is EXACTLY the same as the letter they sent 3/1/2013 word for word!!

As above. Letter received today from HL Solicitors. It is EXACTLY the same as the letter they sent on 3rd January.

As it states they will 'not enter into correspondence with me at this stage, I'll send the next O/D CCA letter to Apex and see what they do with it.

Best
SnV

Letter from HL Legal as follows:

Notice of Pending Legal Action

We have been instructed by Apex Credit Management, agents for the above named creditor, in relation to your outstanding account in the sum of £xxx.xx

Unless our client receives payment in full or a valid reason for non payment of the account within the next 7 days then court proceedings may be taken against you without further notice.

Should court proceedings be issued, you may be liable for court fees, solicitors costs, and interest which may make it difficult for you to obtain credit in the future.

If you wish to avoid this course of action from being taken against you then you must telephone our client on 0845 849 8920 and one of their advisors will discuss this matter with you.

Please note we are instructed not to enter into correspondence with you at this stage but refer you to Apex Credit Management. You can contact them by the number stated above or at the address supplied on previous correspondence.