Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

If you're really unlucky, they can get a charging order (secured loan) at 8% interest after fleecing you for years at the unsecured rate!

Surely there should be a warning on credit card applications that homeowners may potentially face that risk? At the very least, if they want a charging order, interest should be re-calculated at 8% from the conception of the agreement.

best not go there, totally different argument!!

As for not costing the banks, well you know they too borrow the funds they lend us? But tough!! It does affect their shareholders which is good enough for me!!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Lol @ Billy. Thing is you ought to add a post here with what happened to you, ie LEGALLY HARASSED INTO ACCEPTING A CCJ ON A SB DEBT!!

If only if only you'd never signed the form that judge would have allowed an appeal/overturn - buggery!!

[midastouch]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

I don't think many if any people start out that way Peter. But the banks are like drug dealers... do you arrest the person buying the drugs or do you go after the dealer who supplies.

In this case we MUST go after the supplier, they are giving to anyone who can't afford and the bank KNOWINGLY gives loans, CC increasing limits to those who can't afford.

Who really is at fault here?

Very good analogy.

And as Garlok points out, it's not as if the banks actually lose any money here.

If you're really unlucky, they can get a charging order (secured loan) at 8% interest after fleecing you for years at the unsecured rate!

Surely there should be a warning on credit card applications that homeowners may potentially face that risk? At the very least, if they want a charging order, interest should be re-calculated at 8% from the conception of the agreement.

[billypre]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

If you borrow money you should pay it back where feasible and just..................but............my signature says it all.

[jen_br]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Midas my experience was similar to yours... I came to this country 8 yrs ago, lloyds gave me an account and a CC with 1500 this grow to 18k in 3 years... !!

I got ill very ill and couldn't work (cancer) and then it started to tumble for us ... me not working and just buying a new house caused our bank balance to drop, robbing peter to pay the mortgage off on the CC.

Basically I turned over my statement one day saw "If your in financial difficulties please call...." So I called.

I was told to say that I earned more then I said I did... so was my husband we were sold on a consolidation loan far more then what we could pay but it sounded good because well the guys at the bank wouldn't lead us down a bad path right????

WRONG! We then were given this loan from TSB with 16.9 percent interest on it (Yeah looks like lloyds knew we couldn't pay back just from the rate they charged said the CAB)

So it brings me to today.

[jen_br]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Taking money from creditors with no intention of paying it back is immoral.
You cannot have one side without the other if it is wrong for them it is wrong for you.

Peter

I don't think many if any people start out that way Peter. But the banks are like drug dealers... do you arrest the person buying the drugs or do you go after the dealer who supplies.

In this case we MUST go after the supplier, they are giving to anyone who can't afford and the bank KNOWINGLY gives loans, CC increasing limits to those who can't afford.

Who really is at fault here?

[garlok]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Yes Niddy the last para is fine with me. However when real professional advice was and is that you should forget all about morality when trying to resolve these issues I think that has to be taken aboard. I was told that the creditor will have no qualms at all about destroying you and that I had to get the mindset in place that there was no morality in this.

I had to be strong minded. The creditor was and is wrong under the law in our cases. I should never weaken on any front. Yep that is what got me and mine through.

regards
Garlok

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

I can relate to PB's post here as well to be fair. Guys, look beyond his opening statement to the last para; fine - he feels what you borrow you should repay yet let's not forget - we here will not assist those that just won't pay.

See this:---> Unenforceability Templates - Section 6

Now, the last para is where things start to come back to perspective; yes I agree sometimes with the best will in the world, your beliefs can go out the window if forced to survive. Ok, how abput this scenario, you're a die hard veggie - never eaten meat in your life. You then have a plane crash and All you have to eat is the wildlife around you, or you die if you refuse to eat!

Remember the group of blokes that turned to cannibalism when their plane crashed on the mountains.....

Just saying, it's kinda true....

[garlok]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Yep I have many times midas and it was brought to a head in the end with me telling them outright come to the table or get nothing and by the way here is the claim for compensation for what you have done. Here is the date here is the time.

When went to the real professionals, we told after they had investigated, pay nothing more at all, sit and wait with patience, they have been told go to court if they felt they had a case (which they don't LOL) then they get ambushed! Dont worry about CRFs they will trash them anyway, justly or unjustly, take that on the nose and when we have to we will destroy their case. That was all good enough for me. do you know that that all cost less than one month's payments on the cards and i now have written assurances from the senior partner that we will be defended at no further cost to ourselves should they ever try anything on in a court of law.

If, in the state I found myself in those fateful days of ignorance, I could get through it all I am sure with help from sites like this anyone can be guided through it.

I think that says it all really.

best regards
Garlok

[midastouch]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Spot on Garlok!

Six times - wow! If some of those were not enforceable, have you thought of counter claiming?

I bet most consumers have no real idea as to the real cost of using these 'credit tokens' over a long period of time - I certainly didn't.

It's certainly been an education.

[garlok]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Great comments midas,

We did the sums on credit cards which were 25 years old we have paid over 5 times the amounts spent in total on purchases and cash withdrawals.

I know now my debts have been more than paid in full. I now have a clear conscience whatever the law says.

Some people on here know the full extent of what was done to us and me in particular because of my own ignorance of the situation. I stupidly believed that all this "nonsense" (please forgive the word's usage here) about unenforceablity, consumer rights, CMCs and the like did not apply to me. I had pride, self respect and responsibility and would honour to my dying day my responsibilities which contribute to the destruction of my health and I was taken literally to the very edge of my grave by the totally amoral behaviour of the creditor.

I then looked at the small print. I then and went to seek proper help. I found a large specialist litigation law firm who knew what they were doing. Now I will reiterate there is not any morality issue. Our battles are not over, one is won outright and they will not face any court battle, skulk in the darkness trying to get someone esle to do their dirty work.

regards
Garlok

[midastouch]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Great thread.

When I first was 'persuaded' by LTSB to take out a credit card in 2003, I had no steady income as I was a stay at home dad looking after two young kids. The employee basically said (I'm obviously paraphrasing), "you get child benefit don't you? Ever sold anything on Ebay? Just put down £5,000 a year"

Now of course, responsibilty is a two-way issue. I know that I should have told him to bugger off, but the truth is it should never have been offered in the first place.

My initial £1,500 limit in 2003 grew to £12,000 in 6 years - and my credit rating was A1 for most of that time. Of course when the credit crunch came and my marriage collapsed, were LTSB bothered? Of course not! This, the same LTSB that are currently 45 % owned by the public due to their reckless gambles - truly it beggars belief! Did we as tax-payers ever get an option to bail out these bunch of crooks?

We're being crapped on from a great height and we are morally right to stand up to this clear abuse by the banks and government.

I'm going through 6 years of statements, adding up my actual spend, and the amount payed back in interest and incidental charges. I'm sure the final figure will make for an interesting, and quite horrific, amount of money.

Keep smiling all,

MT

[garlok]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

A very very BIG thank you to all of you that have responded to my original post. I have felt very strongly for a long time that this argument is spurious and should have no place whatsoever in the FOS and other so called help areas.

I am in total agreement with Niddy and his post here and thank God for people like him who have had the foresight to set up areas such as this for us to air these issues and better still DEAL with them.

And help others along the way to also resolve their problems. The more we can weaken the effect of these "weapons" they try to use against us, the stronger the will of the new person to get what is fact their full rights under the law.

Again many thanks
regards
Garlok

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Hi
But Morality is an issue I am afraid.
Currently the government are trying to get parliament to agree to the recovery of over £2.2 billion in benefit overpayments to people on minimum earnings, people who are living beneath the poverty line they are calling this a unlawful windfall. This is immoral in my view.
In a few weeks the MOJ will be producing a public consultation paper, that will eventually lead to bailiff getting the right to use physical restraint and force to enter premises, against the will of the debtor to recover civil debts. This is immoral. Some of us are adressing these issues and fighting them on the grounds of their intrinsic immorality.

Taking money from creditors with no intention of paying it back is immoral.
You cannot have one side without the other if it is wrong for them it is wrong for you.
However

We all find ouselves in positions where we genuinely cannot repay our debts, then we must find a compromise, a mutually acceptable solution. if this is not possible because of the intransegence of one of the parties, then you have to do what ever is nessesarry to survive, at that point morality is not an issue by nessesity but not by choice.

Peter

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

I think we should have a coup - an uprising - with NIddy as our leader!! Whose for invading downing street? (Afterall, we need a base!)

Have a few advisors in government made up of people from the real world would not go amiss, just like Sarah Payne was who brought about sarahs law if it worked for her it can work again as we certainly have not a broad section of society in goverment indeed it is made up of a bunch of millionaires.

Sod camerons big society as that just equates to cuts in public services lets have ordinary average citizens as advisors then we will have a big society.