Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Yeah I have, and in terms of its first rate healthcare people are better off there than in the capitalist countries.

Couldn't get PG tips whilst i was there, what kind of civilisation do you call that

Peter

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

But do we in reality? When push came to shove, what protection did I have? None. I did everything absolutely by the book and made it clear that I would repay in time, but they were simply not interested and the law was on their side.

I would accept that since that time the morality argument has swung a little more towards the consumer and I would now be in a slightly better position if it were to happen now. However, I honestly don't believe that the eventual outcome would be any different, whatever supposed laws and rights we have.

Yes unfortunateley we have a way to go yet.

Peter

[The Debt Star]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Ever been to Cubs, are you really comparing the fact that the proffessional elite there are keen to get out at whatever cost, to the billions of dolllars worth of aid donated by the developed world.

Peter

Yeah I have, and in terms of its first rate healthcare people are better off there than in the capitalist countries.

[caspar]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Ithink that most people would regard morality to be a more wide ranging consept than fairness.
Regarding fiduciary duty , i think it is clear to the courts and banks agree that it is to their investors, that i am affraid is just a fact, as you found out, so did I.
Peter

I could not agree with you more Peter, and by stating this you have successfully concluded the argument against yourself.

You see, what you have said above is correct - their fiduciary duty is without a doubt to their investors. However, this is wrong as without the customers there would be no investors. So they have undoubtedly a misplaced fiduciary duty, which is wrong, which by definition is immoral.

Congratulations on being the first person on here I know to have successfully defeated his own argument.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Lets not forget that data also has a profound effect of your future search for employment

Absolutely PF.

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Cuba. With the second-highest per capita number of physicians in the world sends tens of thousands of doctors to other countries as aid, as well as to obtain favorable economic terms of trade. 'Aint a capitalist economy mate.

Ever been to Cubs, are you really comparing the fact that the proffessional elite there are keen to get out at whatever cost, to the billions of dolllars worth of aid donated by the developed world.

Peter

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Originally Posted by caspar
Here is why I have no sympathy whatsoever for the banks and believe they deserve everything they get. I used to be in a very secure, well paid job (just short of 10 years ago and pulling in over £55000 a year). I then became extremely ill and was forced to retire early on health grounds aged just 42.

Now, when I was on the large salary I had all the support in the world from all financial institutions. When I became ill my salary went from £55K per annum to just £8K per annum overnight. My commitments obvously remained the same, so I did the right thing and contacted all the banks, card companies, etc... and told them about my situation (all cards had ppi and not one paid out one penny). Without exception they turned their backs on me and, now forewarned of my situation, demanded immediate repayment of everything which was obviously impossible.

As a direct result of this I've ended up losing my house, my future ability to take up paid employment due to the effect what they were doing did to my pre-existing medical condition and they've basically totally screwed up my life. I am now waiting to be made bankrupt.

I am sure I am not by any means the only one in this country to have gone through this. Any talk of having morality towards them is therefore extremely ill founded as morality towards your institution is much the same as respect in my opinion in that it has to be deserved. When you look how they treat people like me and then ask do they deserve it? For me, the answer is straightforward. No!


Which is why adverse data should not be so widely abused by the banks and lenders as well. I feel very strongly about this and the 'tude is very much "you defaulted and we are obliged to file it with the CRAs." No matter what the circumstances and for 6 years to boot. The whole system needs to be overhauled and made more accountable to individual circumstances and exceptions.

Lets not f0orget that data also has a profound effect of your future search for employment

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Moral = Concerned with the principles of right and wrong behaviour according to the Oxford English Dictionary.

You state this was unfair treatment, or put another way wrong treatment, so yes, by its very definition immoral.

As for fiduciary duties, what about their fiduciary duty to their customers? Without any customers, they would have no investors, so to whom should their primary fiduciary duty lie?

Ithink that most people would regard morality to be a more wide ranging consept than fairness.
Regarding fiduciary duty , i think it is clear to the courts and banks agree that it is to their investors, that i am affraid is just a fact, as you found out, so did I.
Peter

[The Debt Star]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

I think this is a massive over simplification. If you look at the contributions that have been made globally to those in need, where have those funds come from? Certainly not communist or none capatalist societies.

It is of course possible to turn an honest proffit without cutting anyones throat, surely we all know that.

Peter

Cuba. With the second-highest per capita number of physicians in the world sends tens of thousands of doctors to other countries as aid. 'Aint a capitalist economy mate, so you got that wrong.

[caspar]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

We have the laws and rights that are displayed on forums like these for a start.
Using the rights that have been granted to us under these pieces of legislaion is not immoral, all that is being prescribed here ,if i read nid correctly, is that we excersise our rights uner the law when all else has failed, nothing wrong with that. It s what law is for, to protect the weak.
Peter

But do we in reality? When push came to shove, what protection did I have? None. I did everything absolutely by the book and made it clear that I would repay in time, but they were simply not interested and the law was on their side.

I would accept that since that time the morality argument has swung a little more towards the consumer and I would now be in a slightly better position if it were to happen now. However, I honestly don't believe that the eventual outcome would be any different, whatever supposed laws and rights we have.

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Peter it is not unjust your very own words were that that is the way it is.

In the cold war would you have thrown water bombs at those that had snow on their boots? Would you have gone out and bought a water pistol to protect your family?

The principle is the same, you said it, Capitalism which by definition is Dog Eat Dog.

regards
Garlok

I think this is a massive over simplification. If you look at the contributions that have been made globally to those in need, where have those funds come from? Certainly not communist or none capatalist societies.

It is of course possible to turn an honest proffit without cutting anyones throat, surely we all know that.

Peter

[caspar]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Hi
You are of course right, this is extremely unfair treatment, although immoral?
I have been in a simillar position myself, and councilled manny others who have also.

I am sure that the banks would say that morally they where acting in the best interests of their investors to whom they owe the greater fiduciary duty.

Not that this excuses their actions in any way of course, but it may well be one the courts would support if the fairness of their actions was not taken into consideration.
Peter

Moral = Concerned with the principles of right and wrong behaviour according to the Oxford English Dictionary.

You state this was unfair treatment, or put another way wrong treatment, so yes, by its very definition immoral.

As for fiduciary duties, what about their fiduciary duty to their customers? Without any customers, they would have no investors, so to whom should their primary fiduciary duty lie?

[The Debt Star]

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Here is why I have no sympathy whatsoever for the banks and believe they deserve everything they get. I used to be in a very secure, well paid job (just short of 10 years ago and pulling in over £55000 a year). I then became extremely ill and was forced to retire early on health grounds aged just 42.

Now, when I was on the large salary I had all the support in the world from all financial institutions. When I became ill my salary went from £55K per annum to just £8K per annum overnight. My commitments obvously remained the same, so I did the right thing and contacted all the banks, card companies, etc... and told them about my situation (all cards had ppi and not one paid out one penny). Without exception they turned their backs on me and, now forewarned of my situation, demanded immediate repayment of everything which was obviously impossible.

As a direct result of this I've ended up losing my house, my future ability to take up paid employment due to the effect what they were doing did to my pre-existing medical condition and they've basically totally screwed up my life. I am now waiting to be made bankrupt.

I am sure I am not by any means the only one in this country to have gone through this. Any talk of having morality towards them is therefore extremely ill founded as morality towards your institution is much the same as respect in my opinion in that it has to be deserved. When you look how they treat people like me and then ask do they deserve it? For me, the answer is straightforward. No!

Which is why adverse data should not be so widely abused by the banks and lenders as well. I feel very strongly about this and the 'tude is very much "you defaulted and we are obliged to file it with the CRAs." No matter what the circumstances and for 6 years to boot. The whole system needs to be overhauled and made more accountable to individual circumstances and exceptions.

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

The problem is Peter, what alternative do we realistically have? We behave in a moral way towards them, then they behave atrociously towards us, yet expect the same morality to continue. That, I'm afraid, is simply not living in the real world, and anyone who thinks it is is deluding themselves.

We have the laws and rights that are displayed on forums like these for a start.
Using the rights that have been granted to us under these pieces of legislaion is not immoral, all that is being prescribed here ,if i read nid correctly, is that we excersise our rights uner the law when all else has failed, nothing wrong with that. It s what law is for, to protect the weak.
Peter

Re: Dispensing with the "MORALITY" issue

Here is why I have no sympathy whatsoever for the banks and believe they deserve everything they get. I used to be in a very secure, well paid job (just short of 10 years ago and pulling in over £55000 a year). I then became extremely ill and was forced to retire early on health grounds aged just 42.

Now, when I was on the large salary I had all the support in the world from all financial institutions. When I became ill my salary went from £55K per annum to just £8K per annum overnight. My commitments obvously remained the same, so I did the right thing and contacted all the banks, card companies, etc... and told them about my situation (all cards had ppi and not one paid out one penny). Without exception they turned their backs on me and, now forewarned of my situation, demanded immediate repayment of everything which was obviously impossible.

As a direct result of this I've ended up losing my house, my future ability to take up paid employment due to the effect what they were doing did to my pre-existing medical condition and they've basically totally screwed up my life. I am now waiting to be made bankrupt.

I am sure I am not by any means the only one in this country to have gone through this. Any talk of having morality towards them is therefore extremely ill founded as morality towards your institution is much the same as respect in my opinion in that it has to be deserved. When you look how they treat people like me and then ask do they deserve it? For me, the answer is straightforward. No!

Hi
You are of course right, this is extremely unfair treatment, although immoral?
I have been in a simillar position myself, and councilled manny others who have also.

I am sure that the banks would say that morally they where acting in the best interests of their investors to whom they owe the greater fiduciary duty.

Not that this excuses their actions in any way of course, but it may well be one the courts would support if the fairness of their actions was not taken into consideration.
Peter