Help with Unenforceability [UPDATED 01/2020]

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Yes Niddy, thats exactly right. Also i would like to know something else via the SAR. I received the decree, it was for around £700. A few weeks later i received a statemnet from them and i was sure they had added charges on AFTER the decree for things like :

Investigation (dated 6 months prior to decree) £30 x2
Trace Fee (dated 6 months prior to decree) £25

I queried this but was told they were allowed, and again i didn't know where to trun so left it.

Hiya

Ok, well don't worry what you need to do then is send a complaint to the ICO telling them that you feel you've been hassled to pay for a Statute Barred debt and therefore you NEED the lender to comply with your SAR request, send a copy of the letter you just got as proof and argue the fact the DCA have illegally pursued a SB debt and obtained judgment - which should never have been allowed.

Once you have submitted the complaint, send a copy off to the DCA so they know what you're doing - it should kick them into gear.... point of fact here, they can retain any personal files from the solicitor - if it is an ONGOING case - this is not! This involves them manipulating and bullying you into submission with errors galore ergo the whole claim should be set-aside. You should also contact the Sheriff that made the award and notify him that he issued a Decree in error as the account/debt would have been statute barred. Cease repayments ONLY after you've got confirmation it is ok to do so.

Regards to the SAR, they are in breach of DPA. They should be sending you the data you request. 2

Best of luck!

Complain to ICO here: ---> http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints/data_protection.aspx

[billypre]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Yes Niddy, thats exactly right. Also i would like to know something else via the SAR. I received the decree, it was for around £700. A few weeks later i received a statemnet from them and i was sure they had added charges on AFTER the decree for things like :

Investigation (dated 6 months prior to decree) £30 x2
Trace Fee (dated 6 months prior to decree) £25

I queried this but was told they were allowed, and again i didn't know where to trun so left it.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Hi Nid, thanks for the response. I'm not being thick or anything but could i ask if you could explain a few things for me so i understand whats happening ?

1. What, in laymans terms, are they telling me in that letter ?
2. What , in laymans terms, am i saying in the letter you told me to send ?
3. Whats CPR ?
4. What's a lose lose for me (worried about that comment lol)
5. I read the letter you want me to send and i am not sure if it's the right one. It seems to suggest that i am replying to them taking me to court...... obviously i very well may be totally mis-reading it as it is a bit mumbo jumbo in points to me and the layman . What i mean is, they aren't taking me to court but already have and succeeded with a Decree 2 years ago.

Apologies, I misread the fact you already had a decree... so you're trying to establish when you last made payment I presume; thus the SAR request - which assuming they comply, you're hoping to find proof that you paid over 5yrs since the last contact menaing the decree is invalid - correct?

Please confirm this?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

p.s Do i need to send a copy of i.d with this letter so taht they don't fob me off with the usual "we cannot due to data etc process without signature or proof of id" ??

No you do not and MUST not send ID - under DPA it is not necessary - trust me here!!

Strange they took this line in the SAR request as i had previously asked for a statement of account last year via EMAIL and gave nothing but an account number and my name/address. They replied...... telling me the account number was wrong, here is the correct one and attached a full statement of account since the Decree. Data Protection act didn't seem to matter as much then eh ?

LOL, its cos they know you're winning the fight already and they dunno what to do so they are panicking and fobbing you off. If they continue to do so then we'd complain to ICO and no action can be taken on disputed debts anyway......

[billypre]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

p.s Do i need to send a copy of i.d with this letter so taht they don't fob me off with the usual "we cannot due to data etc process without signature or proof of id" ?

Strange they took this line in the SAR request as i had previously asked for a statement of account last year via EMAIL and gave nothing but an account number and my name/address. They replied...... telling me the account number was wrong, here is the correct one and attached a full statement of account since the Decree. Data Protection act didn't seem to matter as much then eh ?

[billypre]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Hi Nid, thanks for the response. I'm not being thick or anything but could i ask if you could explain a few things for me so i understand whats happening ?

1. What, in laymans terms, are they telling me in that letter ?
2. What , in laymans terms, am i saying in the letter you told me to send ?
3. Whats CPR ?
4. What's a lose lose for me (worried about that comment lol)
5. I read the letter you want me to send and i am not sure if it's the right one. It seems to suggest that i am replying to them taking me to court...... obviously i very well may be totally mis-reading it as it is a bit mumbo jumbo in points to me and the layman . What i mean is, they aren't taking me to court but already have and succeeded with a Decree 2 years ago.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

What's bothering me is the bit about "Schedule 7 of the DATA Protection Act 1998".

Anyone any idea how to procede ? What does it all mean ? I can't ever get to see my data ?

Please please help if you can. I know it's a long story but it's really annoying me and this particular DCA have been very very bad. Am i stuck ?

Hiya

Ok pay attention, first off you need to amend this to suit --> viewtopic.php?p=17745#p17745 so that it reads that upon receipt of a court claim, you will then demand CPR - until then you want a SAR - so either way, they are legally obliged to provide the ingo. Thing is keep their replies, this all helps you in court if they dare go that far - especially as you need the SAR to prove statute barred.... its a lose-lose situation for you and they know it so they are trying to scare you into submission - ergo, don't back down and stand up to them....

Remember to edit the templates to read properly, and add a part saying, being you're taking legal steps against me - please see attached CPR 31.14 request - lol, that is basically a SAR for pre-court

Muppets are trying to scare you and act clever - just play em at their own game ;LOL

Also, read this thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=59&t=535

[billypre]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Hi Niddy - spent a while finding you again but chuffed now that i have !!

Just to remind you of what i posted on old forum. I got a decree 2 years ago from Nolans for a debt from 1994. At the time i admitted the debt after summons were served and started a repayment plan. I hadnt heard about statute barred at the time and was going through a bad time of life. Nolans told me that if i didnt admit the debt to the courts then it could lead to a lot more being added to debt for court costs etc. So stupidly i admitted and started paying.

Now, i am sure that the debt should have been statute barred and so you advised me to send them a SAR. I received reply today that they WILL NOT be sending me a SAR and here is the copy of their letter.


[size=5]We refer to your undated and unsigned letter received by us on 27th October 2010.

Naturally if we cannot identify the source of the subject access request by reference to a signature or some other form of identification then it is obvious we cannot comply with that request. To do so would risk disclosing information to a party who was not entitled to receive that information.

Furthermore, even if you had signed the request which we received and we were satisfied that the request had originated from you, we should refer you to schedule 7 of the data protection act 1998 which provides for various exceptions fom the subject access provisions. Schedule 7 provides us as follows:-

"Personal Data are exempt from the subject information provisions if the data consist of information in respect of which claim to legal proffession or privelege or. in Scotland to confidentiality of communications could be maintained in legal proceedings"

The data which is held about you by us is subject to legal privelege and confidentiality of communications between solicitor and client and in the circumstances we should not be able to comply with your request.

We therefor return the postal order which was enclosed with the said letter.

Yours Faithfully

Then in a weird twist they have asigned it but there is no printed name to say which person in the company it is from LOL
Using the signature (or lack of it) as a reason is pitiful and i don't mind that as i will send them ID next time if i can. Even though they have contacted me at this address and this is where the summons got sent and court decree went to etc etc.

What's bothering me is the bit about "Schedule 7 of the DATA Protection Act 1998".

Anyone any idea how to procede ? What does it all mean ? I can't ever get to see my data ?

Please please help if you can. I know it's a long story but it's really annoying me and this particular DCA have been very very bad. Am i stuck ?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

well done - see what happens now eh...?

y

[gujujainuk]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Hi Never-In-Doubt,
I wanted to thank you for your advise and I posted a signed for letter to fairfax today.
cross my fingers everything will be alright.
thank you thank you thank you

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Hi
5 yrs ago I was swamped with debt, owing 10's of thousands to family/Credit cards/banks and even £550 to a Bailiff for an unpaid parking ticket!!
The advice you guys give on these forums is SOLID GOLD and if you weren't such a pain in the arse to the 'establishment' you would've been knighted by now!!
My story should give hope to people that feel as though they're 'upto their necks' and can't cope anymore...People that are frightened to open the mail or answer their phone to unknown numbers, panicking about the vicious threats made by DCAs/Solicitors. I honestly understand when people are toppled over the edge.
My advice is....read through these forums, dont flit through them...follow the 'stories' and see how the persons confidence grows as their case progresses. The advice you glean from this kinds of forum will empower you and when you answer the phone, or open a threatening letter you can actually smile and feel like 'Bring it on!'...and ACTUALLY mean it. Like a MASSIVE weight lifted off your shoulders...These guys are nothing short of a type of 'Cyber-Jesus'!!
There's light at the end of the tunnel now...Family happy with repayments and no bad feeling...Bank loans paid in 18 mnths (CCA valid!) and the skin wore out on the Bailiffs knuckles before the paint on my door..so he's gone....
I still have a credit card issue to sort out though....I have FINALLY received a letter from Nat West stating that they dont have a CCA as it has been 'misfiled' and admitting that the debt is unenforceable...which is BRILLIANT news! They have sent me a copy of my application with my old phone number on and how much I earned, which was very useful for my wife and I to get all nostalgic about...but no use for enforcing alledged debts.
Let me run this by you and see what you reckon....When I hit hard times I asked for the interest to be suspended on the phone numerous times but was always refused. Subsequently, I incurred LOTS of penalty charges and interest. I want to dispute those charges/interest which would be detailed on the CCA, but they dont have a copy and I havent seen as I'm certain I never signed one. If I dispute the charges, the account will be in dispute and therefore they will have to cease collecting activity/adverse credit reporting, which they are now allowed to do (after recent legal precedents..I think thats right?). Am I right in thinking that? But by disputing charges, am I acknowledging the debt?
Thanks for where you've got me and the nightmare you pushed me out of!!

Morning Mart & Welcome ;Hi

Ok, regards to your query, basically you're right in the main - as they do not have a CCA they can't do much; however they can (and will) still hassle you to pay, similarly they will report the account conduct the the CRA's - but as you've several debts (based on the above post) an extra default doesn't really matter a jot! Remember the account stays with the CRA's for 6yrs since last payment / closure / default date afterwhich it vanishes. Sooo, if you're still with the creditor and not defaulted and it stays like this for a few years THEN they default you, you'd be worse off cos you'd have the adverse entries there for 6 years (default persiod) plus the time from first missed payment to the default date.

If however you get defaulted quicker, then the default and whole entry is wiped from your credit file after 6yrs - period. Finished.....

With that in mind, i'm trying to say get the account defaulted quicker if you can by refusing to pay lol.

Regards to disputing charges, you do not do this on an UE debt as it doesn't matter if your balance reads £1 or £10k - you are never going to be taken to court for it so the balance is a range of numbers to you, it means nothing - get used to that trail of thought if you can....... However, if the lender ever attempted court action for a CCJ then you'd reclaim all charges in order to lower the balance - in your case this cannot happen as you have a letter confirming they do not have an agreement and even if they now create a reconstituted version - you have that letter so you know that you can push them to take you to court, then you issue CPR31.14 and fight for sight and proof of agreed charges at outset - ooops, no agreement? Sorry, s.127 says you cannot issue a judgment - thanks boss! Walk away from court lol.

Statute Barred occurs after 6yrs of non acknowledgement of the debt, a cca request/dispute does not acknowledge a debt so no worries on that front...

Hope the above helps, basically under the circumstances you should now ignore any correspondence you get for this debt unless it is from a DCA etc in which case you'd simply copy the letter confirming they do not have a CCA and send it with this, to the new DCA that starts to chase you: ---> viewtopic.php?p=20195#p20195

Best of luck ;-y

[mart66]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Hi
5 yrs ago I was swamped with debt, owing 10's of thousands to family/Credit cards/banks and even £550 to a Bailiff for an unpaid parking ticket!!
The advice you guys give on these forums is SOLID GOLD and if you weren't such a pain in the arse to the 'establishment' you would've been knighted by now!!
My story should give hope to people that feel as though they're 'upto their necks' and can't cope anymore...People that are frightened to open the mail or answer their phone to unknown numbers, panicking about the vicious threats made by DCAs/Solicitors. I honestly understand when people are toppled over the edge.
My advice is....read through these forums, dont flit through them...follow the 'stories' and see how the persons confidence grows as their case progresses. The advice you glean from this kinds of forum will empower you and when you answer the phone, or open a threatening letter you can actually smile and feel like 'Bring it on!'...and ACTUALLY mean it. Like a MASSIVE weight lifted off your shoulders...These guys are nothing short of a type of 'Cyber-Jesus'!!
There's light at the end of the tunnel now...Family happy with repayments and no bad feeling...Bank loans paid in 18 mnths (CCA valid!) and the skin wore out on the Bailiffs knuckles before the paint on my door..so he's gone....
I still have a credit card issue to sort out though....I have FINALLY received a letter from Nat West stating that they dont have a CCA as it has been 'misfiled' and admitting that the debt is unenforceable...which is BRILLIANT news! They have sent me a copy of my application with my old phone number on and how much I earned, which was very useful for my wife and I to get all nostalgic about...but no use for enforcing alledged debts.
Let me run this by you and see what you reckon....When I hit hard times I asked for the interest to be suspended on the phone numerous times but was always refused. Subsequently, I incurred LOTS of penalty charges and interest. I want to dispute those charges/interest which would be detailed on the CCA, but they dont have a copy and I havent seen as I'm certain I never signed one. If I dispute the charges, the account will be in dispute and therefore they will have to cease collecting activity/adverse credit reporting, which they are now allowed to do (after recent legal precedents..I think thats right?). Am I right in thinking that? But by disputing charges, am I acknowledging the debt?
Thanks for where you've got me and the nightmare you pushed me out of!!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Thanks for prompt reply to my post Never-In-Doubt

Hope it is not too much trouble but I wanted to know if it would ok to send them a fax or an email instead of a recorded letter?

Also, do I need to include my full name and full address in the letter?

These questions are little silly but I am asking only out of interest.

Based on the dates given this is statute barred so you have nothing to worry about. Obviously if you gave incorrect dates then that's a different matter altogether.

Yes, provide accurate name and address so it tallies with their records, and you must send recorded delivery (the orange sticker) as this is proof, if it ever went to court, that you did indeed notify them of the FACTS.

Don't try and cut corners at this late stage, stick to the proved and tried processes - trust me, I used to be a doctor

[gujujainuk]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Thanks for prompt reply to my post Never-In-Doubt

Hope it is not too much trouble but I wanted to know if it would ok to send them a fax or an email instead of a recorded letter?

Also, do I need to include my full name and full address in the letter?

These questions are little silly but I am asking only out of interest.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Unenforceability

Fairfax Solicitors

Hi,

I read quite a few of your posts, so I am hopping you are able to help me.

I go into finance trouble in late 2001 by early 2002 I had IVA for 5-year but it failed in 2003 after I was made redundant and could not afford it. After 2003 I have not heard anything back until recently.

4-5 months ago I received a letter from Fairfax Solicitors saying I own money to Max Recovery Ltd. Out of fear I called them poising as someone else informing them that I had moved. Last week Friday, I received another letter saying their agent has investigated and they believe I still live at my current address.

At the time, I did not think of searching the web for help, but now that I have I feel I could use the ‘statue barred letter’

Please can you tell me if I can still use it or is it too late?

Many thanks in advance.

This will definitely be statute barred, based on the dates given so yea - do not agree to the old debt or admit it was yours, it is always "alleged debt" to you, from here-on-in.

Respond to fairshyte with this: ---> viewtopic.php?p=2313#p2313