Unenforcable??

[MrsH]

Hi

This is my first post so apologies if I have posted in the wrong section...

Back in 2010 I defaulted on all of my debts. I have been on a self managed DMP ever since (never missed a payment). My creditors are as follows:-

Natwest Loan - now owned by PRA Group
Natwest Overdraft - now owned by PRA Group
Natwest Credit Card - owned by Cabot and managed by Wescot
Mint Credit Card - owned by Cabot and managed by Wescot
Tesco Credit Card - owned by Intrum

PRA Group have recently purchased the loan and overdraft from Natwest, all correspondence I have from them regarding the loan account state that the account 'is currently classified as unenforceable, which means we are not able to take legal action to recover the balance. The debt is still legally owed and we will continue to contact you and report to the CRA's (where appropriate). It is possible for your account to become enforceable in the future if we receive the appropriate paperwork from the original creditor'.

I have recently sent a SAR request to Natwest (using a form from their website) I specifically asked for the credit agreement for the loan as I wanted to know if it still exists. I received a load of paperwork and four sheets of paper labelled loan applications, I'm unsure if this counts as an agreement as it looks like print outs of a database system - but I have no idea of what is acceptable. I note that my address is not on the loan application print out (only my post code from a previous address) and my maiden name is no where on the document. My married name is on there along with 'Personal information summary as at 29/03/2019' - again, I have no idea if this is acceptable or not...

I'm unsure of my next move - I am still paying my monthly payments to PRA as I didn't want to rock the boat.

Any help would be most appreciated!

Thank you

MrsH

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Back in 2010 I defaulted on all of my debts. I have been on a self managed DMP ever since (never missed a payment). My creditors are as follows:-

Natwest Loan - now owned by PRA Group
Natwest Overdraft - now owned by PRA Group
Natwest Credit Card - owned by Cabot and managed by Wescot
Mint Credit Card - owned by Cabot and managed by Wescot
Tesco Credit Card - owned by Intrum

I'm unsure of my next move

Hello

If you've been paying these debts on a (self-managed) DMP for the last nine years or so it makes sense to take a step back to assess where this is heading, especially since they've all been assigned to debt purchasers who probably paid a minimal amount for the accounts.

In order to make suggestions could you give a little more information about each debt in a separate post on this thread using this format >

• Type of account (credit card/loan/overdraft/catalogue)
• Date commenced (ideally before April 2007)
• Approx balance
• Date last paid (approximate date you last made a FULL payment)
• Are you on arrangement or not paying
• Status (default/in arrears/up-to-date)
• Account owner (who is writing to you, the original creditor, a debt purchaser or a DCA)

A debt can be unenforceable for a number of reasons even if the credit agreement is compliant so knowing as much as possible about the history will help me to help you.

Have you sent a formal s77-79 CCA Request to each of these debt owners together with the £1 statutory fee, or did you just write to them asking for the credit agreement?

Di

[MrsH]

Hi Di, thanks for your reply. I haven't sent a formal s77-79 CCA for any of the debts, I just asked a copy of the credit agreement from Natwest when doing a SAR... I will post all the debt information as suggested. Thank you!

[MrsH]

Credit Card (Natwest)
2003
£2,476
August 2010
Arrangement
In arrears (My reduced monthly repayments are up to date) - did Default but this has now dropped off my credit file
Cabot Financial (UK) Limited - assigned on 03/07/17

15/04/19 (Before CCA request) Letter from Wescot offering me 45% discount on a Full & final.

CCA request letter has been signed for 08/05/19. No response has been received yet... Still no response 13/06/19.

20/06/19 - Letter received from Cabot saying 'We have been unable to get the information requested from the original lender. If this information ever becomes available to us we will complete your request, but until we are unable to supply this your account is unenforceable.'

03/07/19 - Letter received from Wescot to inform me that the direct debit has been cancelled (by me).

[MrsH]

Overdraft (Natwest)
Unsure of date - Had an overdraft since before 2005
£386
August 2010
Arrangement
In arrears (My reduced monthly payments are up to date)
PRA Group

10/07/19 - CCA request sent.

15/07/19 - Letter received from PRA "We are unable to fulfil your request for a copy agreement as current accounts do not require a credit agreement, therefore no credit agreement would have been set up when opening the account, such accounts are not included in the Consumer Credit Act 1974." Then they go on to say "Our fully trained agents will discuss your account further with you and help you come to a mutually acceptable agreement in order to settle your outstanding balance."

[MrsH]

Credit Card (Mint)
Unsure of exact date - 1st statement date that I have is dated 19/04/2007
£1,479
August 2010
Arrangement
In arrears (My reduced monthly payments are up to date) - did default but this has dropped off my credit file
Cabot Financial (UK) Limited - assigned on 03/07/17


12/04/19 (Before sending CCA request to Cabot) - Received a letter from Wescot offering me a 45% discount as a full & final

13/05/19 - Letter from Cabot acknowledging my request
23/05/19 - Letter from Cabot saying they are still processing my request and they have contacted the original lender, and it is unenforceable until they are able to reply to my request.

20/06/19 - Letter received from Cabot saying 'We have been unable to get the information requested from the original lender. If this information ever becomes available to us we will complete your request, but until we are unable to supply this your account is unenforceable.'

03/07/19 - Letter received from Wescot to inform me that my direct debit has been cancelled (by me).

[MrsH]

Credit Card (Tesco)
Unsure of date - 1st statement that I have is dated 08/10/2008
£1,290
August 2010
Arrangement
In arrears (my reduced monthly payments are up to date) - did default but this has dropped off my credit file
Intrum


08/05/19 Letter from Intrum acknowledging receipt of my request, they will be contacting Tesco for the information.

04/07/19 - Call from Intrum saying there was a matter they need to discuss with me. I told them I would not be dealing with anything over the phone and to put it in writing to me.

09/07/19 - Letter received from Intrum. "Following your request for the balance of your account, please be advised that the current balance is £1254.91. If you would like to speak to a member of our team" etc etc. No mention of currently being unenforceable. (I have not made a request for the balance!)

[MrsH]

Loan (Natwest)
January 2008
£7,424
August 2010
Arrangement
In arrears (My reduced monthly payments are up to date) - did default but this has dropped off my credit file
PRA Group

All correspondence from PRA Group regarding this account state that it is currently unenforceable.

10/07/19 - CCA request sent.

13/07/19 - Letter received from PRA to say my request is being processed with.

07/08/19 - Letter received from PRA. "Please find enclosed documentation received to date; we are awaiting further documents in order to complete your request. We have currently deemed this debt as unenforceable...." The enclosed documentation was a loan statements from July 2009-January 2011.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I haven't sent a formal s77-79 CCA for any of the debts.

In which case your next step will be to send a formal s77-79 CCA Request including a postal order for the £1 statutory fee for each debt to the current owner of the debt even if that debt owner has more than one of your accounts.

Here's a link to the template letter you can send > https://all-about-debt.co.uk/forum/d...mplate-letters

Send each one in a separate envelope by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery so you can Track & Trace their progress. This should help to protect your legal position.

When you get any responses you can post on your thread (re-quoting your original post so it's clear which one you're talking about). If you are sent any credit agreements then you can email them to Niddy (Never-In-Doubt the forum owner) using webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk for an opinion of whether the paperwork is enforceable or not.

I look forward to helping you

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Credit Card (Natwest)
2003
£2,476
August 2010
Arrangement
In arrears
Cabot

Debt No 1

What is the precise name of the debt owner - is it Cabot Financial Ltd. or Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd? It may make a difference.

Did you have PPI on this credit card opened in 2003?

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Overdraft (Natwest)
Unsure of date - Had an overdraft since before 2005
£386
August 2010
Arrangement
In arrears
PRA Group

Debt No 2

Even though this was an overdraft you can still send the s 77-79 CCA Request since a recent county court judgment ruled that overdrafts are covered by s 78 Consumer Credit Act.

Read this post by Joanna Connolly >

The claim against our clients in this case was for monies owing under a personal Current Account Overdraft. We lost at first instance before a District Judge in Peterborough County Court and appealed the decision before HHJ Walden-Smith sitting at Cambridge County Court.

The Appeal was successful yesterday. This is an important case because it confirms that consumers using the unenforceability provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 can successfully defend claims for personal Current Account Overdrafts in court. In this instant case the Appeal court found the personal Current Account Overdraft agreement to be unenforceable pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act because of lack of evidence of compliance with the requirements of the OFT determination.

It was also accepted that Creditors must comply with S 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 requests relating to personal Current Account Overdrafts, not just credit cards and loans. In this case the Appeal court did find that MFS Portfolio Ltd had complied with the S 78 Consumer Credit Act request. If they hadn’t complied with the statutory request then the personal Current Account Overdraft would have been unenforceable pursuant to s.78 (6) (a) Consumer Credit Act , which is contrary to the position creditors normally take.

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Credit Card (Mint)
Unsure of exact date - 1st statement date that I have is dated 19/04/2007
£1,479
August 2010
Arrangement
In arrears
Cabot

Debt No 3

Send a CCA Request to Cabot.

When (what year) was this debt assigned to Cabot and was it Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd or Cabot Financial Ltd?

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Credit Card (Tesco)
Unsure of date - 1st statement that I have is dated 08/10/2008
£1,290
August 2010
Arrangement
In arrears
Intrum

Debt No 4

Send a CCA Request to Intrum.

Do you know whether you had PPI on this Tesco credit card?

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Loan (Natwest)
January 2008
£7,424
August 2010
Arrangement
In arrears
PRA Group

All correspondence from PRA Group regarding this account state that it is currently unenforceable.

Debt No 5

Does this mean you have already sent a formal CCA Request to PRA if you've had correspondence stating the debt is currently unenforceable?

Di

[MrsH]

Hi Di

Thank you for your time and help, I really appreciate it!

I have amended the Cabot debts - on the letter of assignment the owner is Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, yet on all other paperwork from themselves (statements of accounts) and from Wescot (who are managing it on behalf of Cabot) they are described as Cabot Financial Europe Limited. That is the same for both of the Cabot debts.

Both of the Cabot debts were assigned to Cabot from the original lenders on 03/07/17. (I have also received letters from Wescot offering me 55% settlement offers for both of these accounts in the last week)

I don't know if I had PPI on either the Natwest credit card or the Tesco card. However I'm sure years ago I had called to check and was told that I didn't have PPI. Is it too late to recheck all of my accounts?

I know when applied for my loan I was told that I had to take out the loan insurance to get the loan but that I could cancel it. Included in all of the information sent to me as a result of my SAR to Natwest is a copy of a complaint form that I sent Natwest in 2015. I had cancelled the insurance a few days after taking out the loan, then in 2015 I received a form from Natwest regarding PPI claims. I called Natwest at the time and was told that there was £5,337 added to the loan as insurance and that it was still running. I then filled in the complaint form. At some point obviously I must of been told that this wasn't the case, and there is no response regarding my complaint from Natwest in the SAR documents…. Do I presume that I didn't have PPI running?

In May 2018 Natwest reduced my arrears on my loan account by £2,198 which was to do with non compliance of NOSIA - I'm not sure what this is but thought I would mention it!

No I haven't sent a CCA to PRA Group - they just inform me in every letter sent to me that the loan account is currently unenforceable.

Thanks again!

MrsH