Heading the Right Way!

[garlok]

Re: Heading the Right Way!

Thanks Niddy,

I think a dissection at this stage is perhaps premature. It is a subject I spent a lot of time on prior to even mentioning the matter to our solicitors as I was so unsure.

We have won significantly with their help and control hence I would and always have advised that it is not for the faint hearted and a good litigation lawyer is really needed. Which is definitely not expensive if significant sums are involved.

I reiterate : Lloyd LJ made the distinction between F & F s dealt with by lawyers and those dealt with directly between debtor/creditor. ( Stour Valley Builders) in the Court of Appeal.

In the same case he also said in his judgment (or words to this effect):

"It matters not what the creditor intends but by by his words and actions what he has led the debtor to believe"

That quote in a judgement in the Court of Appeal and in a case which went eventually against the debtor to boot. He made much of the time frames/limitations as well.

There is also a later case "Cantor Index" which removes much ambiguity which puts more emphasis on " Conduct". "Fry" I believe as you know fell for other reasons as well.

This is not the place to debate such issues and I keep saying that this is DECEPTIVELY simple. It is NOT.

regards
Garlok

[garlok]

Re: Heading the Right Way!

Sorry Debt Star it is not a manoeuvre as such. It was finalised quite properly with specialist lawyers dealing with it within all of the case law which has been quoted.

However I said right at the beginning of this the case law provides no black and white reference. Every case stands or falls on its own merits and everything in this carries some risk.

regards
Garlok

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Heading the Right Way!

Yep understood Garlok - thanks for the clarity on case examples..... it is very much a per case basis I feel, and like you say it is all to do with the way you are led, ie if a lender says we'll accept £2k in F&F then sell the balance off, you'd have a much better argument - but if you just randomly send in £2k then you're not guaranteed anything.......

Anyway, its something we can come back on and start a healthy debate over

[caspar]

Re: Heading the Right Way!

Gald you posted that up Garlok. I'd not long ago sent DS a message saying there was significant case law missing. There's so much around this issue there will never be a one size fits all solution and as you quite rightly keep saying, under Common Law each case stands or falls on its own merits.

[garlok]

Re: Heading the Right Way!

Hello Casp, in my text there was a raft of case law plus the standard advice given to creditors. And I have gained a bit more knowledge since. And by the way DS has a copy of the text via PM before it was posted on this thread.

I agree to a great extent Niddy, however it is not always necessary for the lender to agree anything. That is standard lay advice but in my view of it, it is not totally necessary and I would never entertain such negotiations with a DCA unless I had a copy of the Deed of Assignment (not any old NoA either) in absolute in my hand, only otherwise with the OC.

But yes we do need to come back to this in some form or other.

regards
Garlok

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Heading the Right Way!

I agree to a great extent Niddy, however it is not always necesaary for the lender to agree anything.

It is if you do not want a common law legal fight on your hands, sorry - I am trying to split the two scenarios so those that read this understand what it is we're whittering on about cos it's got quite confusing...

I simply used a different example to split the two scenarios.....

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Heading the Right Way!

In fact I am even confused now - but not cos of this (thankfully)

[garlok]

Re: Heading the Right Way!

We're ALL confused mate!! Wouldn't it be great if we had a written constitution?

Wouldn't it be great if the whole of the law scene was written in plain English with some standard unlying principles which cannot be interpreted or messed with by fancy wordsmiths earning loads of dosh for very little.

Elected judges even.

But that is even more than Uptopia aspired to. Ah well dreams heh?

We ain't got a confused smiley!

regards
Garlok

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Heading the Right Way!

We ain't got a confused smiley

We do mate - we have over 500 loaded

To get a confused do a colon : then type confused (no space) so it looks like this

Most our smileys work like that

so put : PLUS the name of whatever you think of, ie spank, mad, confused, lol, rotf, wtf etc etc

make sense?

[garlok]

Re: Heading the Right Way!

Brilliant Niddy thanks!

Garlok

[caspar]

Re: Heading the Right Way!

Main thing to remember folks, even though it had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with F&F's is the title of this thread, "Heading the Right Way!"

By the way Garlok I wasn't being critical, just contributing. I, as I'm sure we all do, appreciate the fact that you're here with the huge amount of knowledge you have to offer.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Heading the Right Way!

What's a hijacked thread between mates Caspar?
F&Fs are about headin the right way of course and, if you didn't bring your debts at post #1 down that way, we all need to know how!

[garlok]

Re: Heading the Right Way!

No problems Casp,

I did not mean to imply at all that you were being critical. I was just trying to further the common knowledge base. It is a tricky area and I would not like anyone to go this route and get it wrong.

All input on this sort of thing has to be valuable. I could be so buried in the mechanisms and case law of it all that I had lost perspective and another point of view can bring you up sharp to take another look.

regards
Garlok

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Heading the Right Way!

All input on this sort of thing has to be valuable. I could be so buried in the mechanisms and case law of it all that I had lost perspective and another point of view can bring you up sharp to take another look.

That is why I was saying earlier, it needs to be moved to its own thread maybe and discussed over time to allow many fresh faces the chance to pipe up with possible scenarios that we can then establish validity etc over.....

It's not one of these 2 minute responses is it, not like an old MBNA credit card application!

[garlok]

Re: Heading the Right Way!

Absolutely Niddy. Used properly it is a useful tool in the armoury.

regards
Garlok