Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

[jerry]

Re: Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

Good morning Everyone,

Yesterday we rec'd a letter from UMS headed Propert Visit, client BCW Grp Ltd (we have heard from before) Red NPower Ltd Princ sum £497.

The letter is addressed to both my partner and her ex husband (separated) although she is certain this debt her ex accumulated after she left the family home.

The letter tells us that UMS has been instructed by BCW to either visit our property and collect the full balance or make arrangements.

We have ignored all BCW's letters and this looks similar but is headed UMS and is the first to mention a visit. There are the payment options we've seen before on the reverse.

I appreciate you cannot advise us but we would be interested to know if anyone has had experience of this firm.

We are feeling a bit intimidated.

Thanks a lot for reading, have a good day!

Jerry

[ken100464]

Re: Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

Am sure proper advice will be along shortly.

However you have indicated exactly what they are trying to achieve.

They are making you feel intimidated. That is what they are trying to do. Once you are in this state you will be more likely to cough.

Its not personal to them your just a number to collect. But to us it does become personal.

It happens to many of us.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

I put 'UMS' into the search engine, went ten pages deep, and found nothing about UK attempted debt collectors.

What I would do in this situation is to send an exact copy of the "prove it" template which was sent earlier, to these idiots, along with a letter addressed to them saying something like "Please find enclosed a letter which was sent to xxxxx on xx/xx/xxxx, to which I am still awaiting a response".

I would then add, under that, this -

Our Templates | Harassment & Intimidation Templates | Harassment & Threat of Doorstep-Visit

You would need to amend the wording slightly to reflect the fact that it is not UMS but the alleged account holder who has been performing the harassment by telephone, but other than that it should be good to go.

SH

PS Don't feel intimidated. They are chancers out to make a dishonest living from anyone who falls for their moronic threats.

[ken100464]

Re: Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

UMS were purchased by BCW in Feb this year.

It has 50 full time door steppers and 200 self employed munchkins.

Utility management services is its name and is based in Warrington Cheshire.

It specialises in utility debt where it is the market leader in door stepping.

Basically BCW have passed you to the next door desk.

Hope that helps

[ScabHunter]

Re: Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

UMS were purchased by BCW in Feb this year.

It has 50 full time door steppers and 200 self employed munchkins.

Utility management services is its name and is based in Warrington Cheshire.

It specialises in utility debt where it is the market leader in door stepping.

Basically BCW have passed you to the next door desk.

Hope that helps

That helps a lot. In that case, the OP doesn't even need to amend the harassment template because it is the same gang of thugs with a different mask on.

SH

[jerry]

Re: Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

Hey Ken, Hey SH,

That's all very good to hear thank you! Now we know more and how to fight back a little we don't feel intimidated at all! And it's a sweet feeling!

We will template recorded signed for and see that else comes.

Thanks again, Jerry

[jerry]

Re: Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

Hello everyone,

Success! I think!?

We have just rec'd a letter from BCW. We had their associates, UMS's letter threatening a door step visit last week which we responded to with the Harassment template letter here.

BCW's letter today informs us that:- '...the issue is currently being investigated further... in the meantime..... ''cease all action'' instruction has been placed on your account'.

To us this must mean BCW didn't have full and actionable documentation before they started calling and sending us letters. We take this as good news. (The debt is £500 Npower - acumulated by my partners Ex after she moved out. In both names).

Does anyone know if BCW's letter has an important significance I may have missed?

Thanks, Jerry
(I don't what this anime means - just liked it)

[ScabHunter]

Re: Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

Hello everyone,

Success! I think!?

We have just rec'd a letter from BCW. We had their associates, UMS's letter threatening a door step visit last week which we responded to with the Harassment template letter here.

BCW's letter today informs us that:- '...the issue is currently being investigated further... in the meantime..... ''cease all action'' instruction has been placed on your account'.

To us this must mean BCW didn't have full and actionable documentation before they started calling and sending us letters. We take this as good news. (The debt is £500 Npower - acumulated by my partners Ex after she moved out. In both names).

Does anyone know if BCW's letter has an important significance I may have missed?

That is good news, and it is a partial success. They haven't capitulated yet, but they have at least acknowledged that they need to stop the silly threats and do something more sensible. They are firmly in retreat, so wait to see what happens next.

(I don't what this anime means - just liked it)

It means the geezer in the middle will soon have a sore head.

SH

[jerry]

Re: Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

Hi SH, Hi Ken, Hi everyone,

BCW and NPower £*****

We just rec'd a letter from BCW headed 'Final Response'. It is in reply to our template letters asking for proof of the debt and separately to deny their associate's (UMS) any entitlement to make a door step collection.

In their letter BCW claim

1. that they do not need to prove the debt / provide outstanding invoice etc the as the say the debt must be ligitmate because their client passed it to them for action. Also that they do not consider us to have reasonably queried or disputed the debt and that the CPUTR 2008 reference is irrelevant because of the details of our contract with Npower

2. that our reference to OFT rules which do not allow door step visit / collection without an appointment is false and that a first visit and follow up visits to an agreed appointment or when an appointment is broken are allowed.

3. that requests for copy invoices to identify the debt must be made to Npower deirectly and not to BCW.

BCW have given us until the end of December to get these invoices and dispute the claim or to pay BCW in full.

I have written but not yet posted a letter to NPower asking for invoices.

Just to re-cap briefy. This Npower debt has both my partner's name and her separated husband's name on it. She separated from him in Jan 2010. He agreed to pay the bill going forward but guess what - he didn't. Now he has disappeared and BCW have only found her (my partner). She think this bill relates to after she left him.

Everyone here has been terrific and supportive and very generous with their time - Thank you! If anyone has had a similar experience they like to share or any comment to make then we'd be very happy to receive them.

Thanks and Seasons best wishes,


Jerry

[ScabHunter]

Re: Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

In the first place, don't go sending any letters to NPower for invoices. If the Bloody Cantankerous Wankers believe that there is a debt, it is their responsibility to prove it.

I would send them something like this -

"I am in receipt of your letter dated xx/xx/xxxx, the contents of which are noted. I regret to say that I find your response deceitful, insulting, and, in part, even nonsensical.

To take the points one by one -

You state that you do not need to prove the validity of the alleged debt, nor to provide copies of any outstanding invoice, and say that the alleged debt must be legitimate "because your client has passed it to you for action". Are you stating, therefore, that your client is entirely infallible, and utterly incapable of making a mistake of any kind? Either a paperwork error, or a mistaken identity? Are you stating that their accounts procedure is so advanced that it is the only one on Earth which does not have the capability to miscalculate? And are you also saying that there is a zero probability of your assignor simply taking the easy way out and targeting a person they may have located, instead of taking the trouble to find the real account holder?. As you must be aware, anyone can invent an alleged debt in any amount and attempt to make an equitable assignment of it to a third party. Are you saying, therefore, that your organisation has no quality control checks in place, that you just harass people with no reason or justification because a third party tells you to? Is that your concept of how a consumer recoverables business should be run?

Obviously, there is no obligation upon any individual to pay money to an organisation without justification, and that justification must come in the form of verifiable proof. Even producing an invoice would not prove the existence of any alleged debt, as it would not prove whether or not the amounts quoted on the invoice were legitimate, and justified by goods or services supplied to the alleged debtor, neither would it address the issue of whether any monies may have been remitted since the creation of the invoice.

It is entirely your responsibility to justify your demands for payment, unless you consider that you are somehow above the law and can just demand money from anyone you please without reason or justification. So, which is it?

You also allege that reference to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 is irrelevant because of details of an alleged contract between myself and an energy supplier. On the contrary, you must be aware that no contract of any kind, either between the relevant parties or any third party, can obviate your obligation to comply with this binding statute. Notwithstanding this consideration, the "details" of any such contract, whatever they are purported to be, have not been established due to your refusal to comply with relevant legislation and provide verifiable proof of the alleged debt.

The Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance explicitly states that the following is an unfair practice -

3.13f) visiting or 'threatening' to visit a debtor, without his prior agreement, when the debt is deadlocked or reasonably queried or disputed.

As you have failed to provide any proof of the legitimacy of this alleged debt, and indeed are blatantly refusing to do so, it is plainly obvious that the alleged debt is deadlocked and disputed.

The Guidance clearly makes no differentiation between initial doorstep harassment and that which may follow. It merely states that the visit itself, or the threat of a visit (which you have already carried out), is an unfair business practice.

I repeat once again that I am only prepared to discuss this matter in writing. Sending any representative to make visits to my property will only represent a waste of your time and resources, and will be entirely futile as I will not engage them in dialogue.

While on the subject of the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance, you may also like to consider that the following are considered to be unfair practices -

3.8 Dealings with debtors and others are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.
3.9 a. Sending demands for payment, by any means, to an individual, when it is uncertain whether he is the actual debtor

Those considerations would appear to apply to your refusal to provide the necessary proof of indebtedness mentioned above.

You also allege that requests for copy invoices to identify the debt must be made to the assignor directly and not to yourselves. Need I remind you of the Law of Property Act 1925, and the fact that the assignee of an alleged debt takes on both the rights and the duties associated with it? I shall certainly not be wasting my time carrying out your statutory duties for you.

I fail to see what more I can do to convince you of your responsibilities, so I await your response. The required response is either verifiable proof of the alleged debt, or an assurance that the law will be complied with and that I will not be harassed again."

SH

[jerry]

Re: Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

Hey SH,

I was cautious at first. Now I think 'sod it' and I've sent it! I adjusted to fit with their letter but essentially it's the same as you suggested. I almost can't wait to see what comes next!

Just as a secondary position, this debt is in joint names and was built up after my partner moved out of the relevant property. We can prove this with a Decree Nisi and Council Tax date. Is it possible that BCW would be disueded from their current course against her if we showed them this and gave them her husband's address to pursue instead? (He was the one enjoying the heat and light)

Anyway, thanks for your brilliant reply and I how everyone here gets to read it and gain something from it.

Cheers, Jerry

[JadeIsVeryWorr]

Re: Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

Hi Jerry + Everyone,

I am getting final notices from Buchanan Clarks & Wells because of EE (T-Mobile). So basically, I've had my contract for about 7 months. But now after 3 months, I cannot afford to have pay anymore. I tried to contact them, telling them I would buy myself out of the contract. But they had none of it and decided not to listen, now I am getting threats from BCW because apparently. They said they're going to pass my account onto a DCA (Doorstop Collection Agency) which I am assuming are bailiffs, now if it gets to that stage I think I will die. I don't want them to get my family or our house involved, and I can't keep on coughing up unnecessary money out to a contract. So now what shall I do. I know some of you might think this sounds stupid, but please bare in mind that I am just turned 20 and still a student. And have other financial problems to face, from the bottom of my heart can you please help me x

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

They can't send bailiffs. Don't worry.

Tell us more. Can you afford like £10pm? If so I'm sure we can help you get something sorted. Also they cannot refuse a contract buy-out so long as you pay the term off. More info please & try and calm down. You'll be fine.

[JadeIsVeryWorr]

Re: Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

Thank You @Never-In-Doubt, You Have Really Released ALOT Of Stress That I Am Going Through Right Now. I Felt So Alone, And Actually Thought Bailiffs Would Arrive Any Second And Raid My House!!!! Can BCW Send Bailiffs In Any Specific Circumstances...

Can I Just Ask What Does Doorstep Collection Agency Mean & Yes I Can Pay That!!!!

[cymruambyth]

Re: Buchanan Clark & Wells - Final Notice Letter

Hi Jade and welcome. They cannot send bailiffs until they have been to court and obtained judgement against you. This is a long way off and you will have help to fight this before then.
it would be best if this is started as a new thread so that help is for you and not another poster.