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  • My Mother who has Alzheimer's Disease is being sued for Social Care costs.

    My Mother and my Brother are both being sued by the London Borough of Havering for Social Care costs. It was my intention to act on their behalf as Mum has Alzheimer's Disease and my Brother has some learning disability. My defense was to be as follows -

    The defense to this case is, quite simply, that no proper financial assessment was ever conducted for this care package and that the defendants should not have been made liable for the monies claimed.

    The first invoice received from Havering Council for this care package was in the amount of approximately £250.00 per week.

    Txxxxxx Lxxxxx the defendants eldest son and brother, contacted Havering Council via email to query this as defendant Bxxxx Lxxxxxx has special educational needs and defendant Kxxxxxxx Lxxxxx has brain damage. He asked whether this invoice was correct and listed all of Kxxxxxxx Lxxxxx's income. The invoice was then cancelled and a new charge of approximately £50.00 per week was then charged. At no time did he provide expenditure figures.

    The Council continued to invoice the family at this rate and refused to enter into correspondence with Txxxxx Lxxxxx over the issue citing Data Protection as their reason.

    In the Summer of 2019 the family decided to terminate the care package as they were providing their Mother, Kxxxxxxx Lxxxxxx with all the care that she required and there was often little or nothing to do when the carer's arrived.

    On the 19th August 2019 Bxxxx Lxxxxx, who as i have stated has special educational needs and these are quite clear when talking to him even on the telephone, received a call from a person called E S acting on behalf of Havering Council. She, fundamentally, bullied him into agreeing to pay every penny the family had in the bank to the Council on account of this supposed debt. This would have left them with no monies for food and light and heat.

    Txxxxxx Lxxxxx then telephoned E S to talk to her and explain they would not be able to make the payment as it would leave them no money. He also explained to her that it was his belief that no proper financial assessment had ever taken place and that he had only ever provided a list of his Mother's income. He was told by E S that he could not say things like that about her client. He asked her to send him a copy of the financial assessment that she claimed had been filled out. She refused. However she did read him over a couple of the figures. They seemed odd. They were amounts containing odd pence. Txxxxx Lxxxxx is certain that had he filled out that form he, like most people, would have rounded the figure up to whole pounds.

    It was then that the disgraceful individual that is E S started to make vile slurs. Stating to Txxxxx Lxxxxx, on several occasions, that he and Bxxxx Lxxxxx were "abusing" their Mother. At this point Txxxxx Lxxxxx terminated the telephone conversation.

    Then a third conversation took place between E S and a family friend of the Lxxxxx!s in order to try and resolve thing's. It was with this family friend that the agreement to pay £100.00 per month was reached. At no point during the conversation did E S ask the family friend to pass over the phone to a family member to give her authorisation to speak on the Lxxxxx's behalf so I don't believe that the agreement is legally binding.

    Alas, Bxxxx Lxxxxx, once again feeling under pressure, did set up a direct debit and one payment was made. However Txxxxx Lxxxxxx then instructed him to cancel the direct debit as the agreement was not made by us and was not legally binding. As I have previously stated we do not believe this debt is owed as no proper financial assessment has ever been carried out.

    I note with interest that in article 12 of the claimants claim they refer to the second defendant responding and 28/08/2021 agreed to enter into a repayment plan. As we know this can't have happened as it is only June 2021. But I think it adds weight to our concerns over how Havering Council treats important documents such as Court papers and, in this case, financial assessments. Very slipshod indeed.

    And finally, to further endorse our belief that no proper financial assessment was ever carried out by Havering Council in this case, I will state the following. Towards the end of 2020 Kxxxxxxx Lxxxxxx had another hospital admission. It was decided that, on discharge, she would be in need of a care package once more.

    This time an on-line financial assessment was completed by Txxxxx Lxxxxxx. All income and expenditure and required evidence was provided. And Kxxxxxxx Lxxxxx was assessed at nil to pay. The Council did issue an invoice in error but immediately cancelled it and stated that Kxxxxxx Lxxxxxx is nil to pay (I have attached a copy of that email).

    How can it be possible that she is now nil to pay after a proper assessment has been carried out yet several years ago she was liable to pay? There have been no changes in circumstances. If anything her income is now slightly higher due to annual increases in benefit! So, as I have stated, we do not believe this debt is owed as no proper financial assessment was ever conducted by Havering Council in this case.


    Unfortunately i have received a letter from Romford County Court which i shall attach saying that i am not allowed to act for them and that a proper legal defense must be entered by 28th January 2022. And just to clarify it is both my Mother who has Alzheimer's and my brother who has learning disabilities who have both been summoned to court. Neither would be able to offer an coherent defense. Can anybody help please?

    (Unfortunately it will not allow me to upload a copy of the court letter)




    NOTE:- Have paragraphed and deleted full names mentioned above as no names in full should be mentioned. Tech Clerk!
    Last edited by The Tech Clerk; 25 January 2022, 15:29.

  • #2
    C&P ??

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    • #3
      Here it is. Hope it's legible?

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      • #4
        Colin G Quinn

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        • #5
          I cannot see how with late stage Alzheimers the court can reasonably expect your mother to sign a statement of truth.As i imagine she would not have the ability to understand what she is signing/scribbling on.As for your mother attending court,that seems to me to be a ridiculous order.If your mother is anything like my friend with Alzheimers,he does not even know what area he is in,he is in a home and doesn't even recognise his own mother.He just answers yes and nods to whatever it is you may say to him.Literally,if you were to ask him would he like to donate a million pounds to a Billionaire he would say Yes.If your mother is at or around this stage surely the court is acting unreasonably by expecting your mother to attend court and defend this claim.???

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          • #6
            @Never-In-Doubt I just read this and found it very troubling.I wonder if you would possibly take the time to have a quick look.Many Thanks,Sean
            Last edited by nightwatch; 25 January 2022, 14:07.

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            • #7
              kempton - My Mum is in the late stages of Alzheimer's. She would have absolutely no knowledge of what she was signing. Moreover she no longer possess the motor skills to sign anything. Forcing her to attend court would be disgraceful. It would have to involve an ambulance crew as she is bed ridden. And I fear she would find the whole experience quite terrifying if she was having one of her more lucid days. And it's particularly galling that she would have to go to court over what is in fact an error on the part of Havering Council. She is 78 years old and has led a blameless life. I hate the idea of her dying with this stain on her character.

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              • #8
                The fact that the very same council has been providing her with home carers for home help with dementia for four years.Yet expect her to sign a "statement of truth" and attend a court and coherently defend herself i find astounding.And downright unreasonable.Good Luck with this issue tomlawler.

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                • #9
                  I would remove or edit names if real ones. Maybe defamatory or judged as such.
                  ????

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                  • #10
                    Hi,am i missing something here ?.As this site on it's description on google says - "We're a FREE consumer debt and legal forum offering help, support and debate in many areas of day-to-day life." This particular case caught my eye as i have a friend who has just been put in a care home because of dementia.I have looked at other recent threads and the response time offering support/debate/help seems to be generally on the same day.And often within the hour.This person T.Lxxxxx has uploaded a letter TWO days ago saying that his mother who has late stage Alzheimer's has been summonsed to attend court or submit a "statement of truth" within days.Is there really honestly not one person on this site who could offer help.?. Im flabbergasted and quite frankly saddened that two days in and not one person has had a suggestion,or offered to help or advise in any way at all.So will T.lxxxxx have to take a 78 year old lady with late stage Alzheimer's into court on a stretcher and then leave her to to defend herself at a county court debt claim.? Nobody has even offered an opinion on how the summons should be replied to.???
                    Last edited by The Tech Clerk; 25 January 2022, 15:31.

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                    • #11
                      incorrect = tags have been put up on those best to respond! most are dealing with court cases and at times a delay can be experienced - so sit back and wait for possible proper help rather than maybe this/that/other. many of us have had similar problems and know it is not a fast track outcome. posting last one weekend post, like many family time for many volunteers/
                      I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                      If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by julian View Post
                        I would remove or edit names if real ones. Maybe defamatory or judged as such.
                        ????
                        I have removed as personal information was available
                        Last edited by nightwatch; 25 January 2022, 15:28.
                        I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                        If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by nightwatch View Post

                          I have removed as presonal information was available
                          Names used in post #1 too.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Joanna Connolly
                            I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                            If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

                            Comment

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