Installing Linux

[Riz]

Re: Installing Linux

Excellent.

Must admit that I was dubious at first about allowing the installer to resize the Windows OS partitions, but seems like they have got that one cracked nowadays and it is as safe these things can reasonably be.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Installing Linux

Linux Installations

I decided that last night was the right time to carry out the Linux installations which I had been planning, and it appears that they have both worked without any trouble. I've obviously been extremely lucky, in that none of the hardware has decided to create chaos as it did for evilcartman.

I didn't need to ask Rizzle whether I should install Mint 13 or 14, as he'd obviously made that clear before. So, my old netbook is now running 13, but the two desktops are running 14. With separate /home partitions holding any data, the desktops will be easier to upgrade when the next release comes.

For the benefit of anyone reading this and wanting to try Linux, I'll try to give an exact account of the night's events. Firstly, I had to boot the netbook, which already had Linux installed, into Windows! That sounds ironic, but you need Windows XP or 7 to be able to create the bootable USB stick. I downloaded the 32 bit version of Linux Mint 14 MATE for the smaller PC, the one with only a 40GB drive, and then downloaded the exe file from Pendrivelinux. Running the exe allows you to create a USB stick which will contain the operating system.

Before I even thought about trying to install Linux, I navigated to the Disk Management section of Windows XP. This told me that the operating system was on one huge partition which used up well over 30GB of the available 40 (actually around 36). That is bad news in a way, because it means that the 'shrink volume' operation, which could have created some unallocated space for Linux, would not be available from the right click menu. It also told me that only a small percentage of the volume was actually being used. This is good news, as it means that the Linux installer can shrink the volume without risk to the existing Windows XP installation.

It is not easy to allocate space when you only have a 40GB drive to play with, but here is what I did. With only 1GB of RAM, I decided it was best to allocate 2GB to the swap partition. I allowed a full 10GB for the Linux root partition, not a great deal but as much as I could spare. It should be enough for a light installation, with relatively few programs. Only 3GB was allocated to /home, as I don't need a lot of storage space. I make extensive use of external hard drives, and Linux can always store material on the Windows desktop. That makes 15GB for Linux, leaving just under 25GB for Windows XP and the storage which can be used by both.

The first thing I had to do during the Linux install was to shrink the existing giant volume. This was nerve wracking, as it directly affected the partition with the existing operating system. Once this had been completed, it was easy to create the other partitions. Make sure that you have access to a calculator when you carry out this process, as you will need to work in megabytes and not gigabytes. I found the job easy enough, and once the partitions had been created, Linux installed without difficulty. When I tested booting into Windows, it did perform a disk check before it booted.

I then downloaded the 64 bit version of Linux Mint 14 MATE, for use on the larger machine. I had to recreate the bootable USB stick using this different version. I also went into the Windows 7 Desk Manager, and found that this time the OS was installed on small partitions at the start of the disc. This meant that I could shrink the large volume which made up the rest of the disc, ready for Linux.

I thought at first that the larger PC was going to give me grief, as the USB stick didn't seem to be on the boot menu. There was, however, an option called “1.0”, so I thought I'd just try it and see what happens. Thankfully, this booted the PC from the USB stick. Huge relief, as I haven't got a clue what I could have done otherwise.

I had decided to allocate 8GB to the swap partition, which is only an exact match of the PC RAM. There should be less need to use the swap space when the PC has 8GB RAM available, and when I don't really run any intensive applications. I allowed 20GB for the Linux root partition, twice as much as on the smaller PC. I set the /home partition at 50GB, although that is hardly likely to get used. That still leaves the vast majority of the 1TB drive to Windows, which is ideal because Linux can also access it without any difficulty.

This installation was easy, as there was no need to manipulate the volume which housed the Windows 7 operating system. Linux booted without difficulty, and when I booted into Windows it didn't even need a disc check. This may have been because the Windows 7 partition was never altered, or it may just have been because Linux was installed at the far end of memory which Windows had presumably never needed. Who knows?

Everything seems to work well, but I'll obviously carry out more tests today. Remember, it is still only three weeks since I did my research into Linux for the first time. I am still a noob, but at least I've progressed to the level where a basic install is no longer a problem. The Linux Mint OS itself is highly impressive, and I recommend creating a dual boot system if you can. I don't have any problems with Windows XP or 7, but Linux is better for most computing tasks. Windows Hate, of course, can only be used in mental hospitals for making the patients worse.

I hope this is of some use to people who are considering installing Linux. If you have any questions, please post them below.

SH

[SXGuy]

Re: Installing Linux

Depends what you want to tweak?

There are things like gnome-teak-tool, unity-teak-tool, ubuntu-tweak and others....

Plus much more powerful system configuration tools like Webmin.

Webmin seems to answer a lot of my questions!

See, told you it was prob my lack of knowledge lol

[Riz]

Re: Installing Linux

Depends what you want to tweak?

There are things like gnome-teak-tool, unity-teak-tool, ubuntu-tweak and others....

Plus much more powerful system configuration tools like Webmin.

[SXGuy]

Re: Installing Linux

I have always been somewhat 50/50 with linux being used as my full time OS to use.

I love the speed of ubuntu
I love how easy it is to mount a windows parition and backup any files needed should windows fail to load.

Its helped me to recover friends files a number of times, one of which was when Windows Vista update caused a constant reboot.

i love the fact that their installation system tends to give real error reporting whereas windows can often just flash the dredded BSOD at you if your lucky and if you are not, gets stuck in a loop cycle which could mean absolutely anything.

When my work pc's motherboard decided to stop working correctly, (error reading cpu temp and thus causing an overheat alert and shuting down windows)

I was able to detect the cause with just the ubuntu live cd, and whats more, at the time i did not know the exact reason for the reboot loop.

So in that respect ubuntu is really nice to use.

the other 50% which puts me off is having to use terminal commands for specific tweaks or installations.

Maybe its my lack of knowledge of the system but im unaware of any GUI i can use to install or tweak settings without using terminal commands.

Its that which keeps me from moving over completely if im honest.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Installing Linux

After the big weekend it is time to give some more thought to this. Linux is better than Windows at the vast majority of tasks, and if foobar2000 and RX2 can work in Wine then it would be virtually self sufficient. The big weakness is in graphics and images. I still have to boot into Windows to use Paint.NET, because that is reported as being completely incompatible with Wine. If I could find a similar program for Linux, that would be perfect. GIMP is utterly incomprehensible, and everything else seems to be too basic to get the job done.

As far as the partitions go, I would have very basic needs. I rarely store data on a PC for any length of time, as it gets moved over to the 2TB external drives. I've already found by experimentation that Mint can access the Windows desktop, so that really acts as a temporary storage area which can be accessed by both systems. My /home partition will also only need to small, for the same reason.

I'm in an unusual situation, because I've got one PC which has a huge drive (1TB), and another which has a tiny one (40GB). The 1TB obviously needs to be partitioned to give virtually all of the memory to Windows, as Linux can still access it. The 40GB is barely going to be big enough to handle two systems in any case, so it will need to be a light install with no excess software. It may even be necessary to forget about the /home partition for that one.

I'll give it a bit more thought before going ahead.

SH

[Riz]

Re: Installing Linux

I think only the staff in real computer shops would know the answer to that. The spotty youths in PC World certainly wouldn't have a clue. :

I had to show them how to find the info.

[evilcartman]

Re: Installing Linux

When buying the laptop I am tying this from I annoyed the shop by demanding to know the exact model of graphics and wireless chip BEFORE I parted with cash, so I could go home and Google for any known problems.

I think only the staff in real computer shops would know the answer to that. The spotty youths in PC World certainly wouldn't have a clue. :

[Riz]

Re: Installing Linux

Some distributions certify hardware/systems to work with their distribution. Ubuntu for example.

Certified hardware | Ubuntu

One of my Laptops is on the list. Didn't buy it on that basis though.

Some distros/sites used to maintain lists of what was reported to work and what didn't, but as you say, it is hard to keep up, that seems to have fallen by the wayside for most. Especially since the linux kernel constantly has support for new devices/hardware added on and improved every few months.

Majority of hardware works out of the box unless it is so new that no-one has written drivers etc for it yet, or if you have a quirky model. Then again, with linux becoming a little more mainstream, many manufacturers make sure support is there even for brand spanking new stuff.

Some things can be problematic though. The 2 major examples are graphics cards and wireless.

When buying the laptop I am tying this from I annoyed the shop by demanding to know the exact model of graphics and wireless chip BEFORE I parted with cash, so I could go home and Google for any known problems.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Installing Linux

You can even edit the boot file so that it boots into Windows by default if you really want to. But I guess you won't be doing that.

Thanks for the tip!

I probably will do that on the fastest PC, because I use that mainly for RX2 which is proprietary Windows software. I wouldn't do that on a PC connected to the internet and used for general computing tasks, because I now think Linux handles those so much better.

I'm glad to see your sorting your problems out with Mint 14. It must be incredibly frustrating to be held back by hardware issues. I was very lucky that this netbook responded properly right from the word go.

I did mean to ask rizzle whether there were any lists of hardware which is know to be problematic, so you can avoid it when buying a new PC. I suppose it is difficult, as both Linux and the hardware are constantly changing.

SH

[evilcartman]

Re: Installing Linux

That is almost exactly the same as the menu I've now got on my old netbook after installing Mint 13. I've got XP on that computer instead of 7, but the number and order of items is exactly the same as on that screenshot.

There is also a timing mechanism which boots into Linux after a certain number of seconds. As that is what I do virtually every time now, I just leave it to boot up by itself. I only have to do anything if I want to boot into Windows instead.

SH

Yep, that is the standard GRUB boot manager screen. When I was using Ubuntu on my previous setup (with a graphics card that Ubuntu got on with), this worked perfectly fine with Windows XP and 7 on the same hard drive. You can even edit the boot file so that it boots into Windows by default if you really want to. But I guess you won't be doing that.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Installing Linux

That is almost exactly the same as the menu I've now got on my old netbook after installing Mint 13. I've got XP on that computer instead of 7, but the number and order of items is exactly the same as on that screenshot.

There is also a timing mechanism which boots into Linux after a certain number of seconds. As that is what I do virtually every time now, I just leave it to boot up by itself. I only have to do anything if I want to boot into Windows instead.

SH

[Riz]

Re: Installing Linux

Yes, it does.

The Grub2 bootloader installed by default with Ubuntu/Mint detects installations of Windows and creates boot menu entries for them.

For example in the install I just tested.

[SXGuy]

Re: Installing Linux

hey rizzle.

Does ubuntu create dual boot options once installed?

Been a while since i installed an ubuntu os, and im sure i remember previous versions used to overwrite the boot order and you would have to manually add the option to select an os to boot to.

Perhaps its been improved since last time i looked.

[Riz]

Re: Installing Linux

Out of interest, I just tried installing Mint 13 on a Virtualbox virtual machine running Windows 7.

The Mate 13 installer successful resized the Windows 7 partitions and installed Mint. The Windows 7 OS survived and boots/runs fine after an initial disk check.