Dementia.... re-claiming care home fees.

[PriorityOne]

Thank you for your kind words both of you.... xxx I'll come back with updates as they happen - but it may not be for a while. The Panel meeting was very considerate - I had no complaints at all over how I was treated last year. It was just painful to have to re-live it all again.

I'm so sorry about your Mum, Nightwatch - it's never easy xx

[nightwatch]

Finally, after all these years of fighting, challenging and appealing.... a partial success and my late Mum was in fact eligible for continuous care for the first 18 months of her care. This is quite arse about face however, since her condition never improved - but according to the NHS, her nursing care needs somehow morphed into the social care needs of severe cognitive decline (hint of sarcasm there). Such a load of shite....

Getting the NHS to pay out anything however may yet prove difficult - I've been told they ask for invoices..... from 15 years ago? They're having a laugh surely? I have evidence that fees were paid from my late mother's bank account via her solicitor who had Power of Attorney - and I'd like to think this would be enough but we'll see.

What a journey this has been..... ending with me sitting in front of a Panel meeting at the back end of last year going through all of my late Mum's history yet again. It's put fighting the debt collection industry completely in the shade by comparison, I can tell you.....

Just thought I'd let you all know :-)

so glad you got something back.

my mum passed just 12 months ago, it was a fight getting her into a home, Social worker was unable to understand the fact Mum was wandering over to neighbours in the middle of the night, in freezing weather, also stood in the rain cutting the hedge, because she thought the council would throw her out. and DON'T get me started on the care at home crowd,

Hope you are keeping well, nice to hear from you xxx

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Finally, after all these years of fighting, challenging and appealing.... a partial success and my late Mum was in fact eligible for continuous care for the first 18 months of her care. This is quite arse about face however, since her condition never improved - but according to the NHS, her nursing care needs somehow morphed into the social care needs of severe cognitive decline (hint of sarcasm there). Such a load of shite....

Getting the NHS to pay out anything however may yet prove difficult - I've been told they ask for invoices..... from 15 years ago? They're having a laugh surely? I have evidence that fees were paid from my late mother's bank account via her solicitor who had Power of Attorney - and I'd like to think this would be enough but we'll see.

What a journey this has been..... ending with me sitting in front of a Panel meeting at the back end of last year going through all of my late Mum's history yet again. It's put fighting the debt collection industry completely in the shade by comparison, I can tell you.....

Just thought I'd let you all know :-)

Success is still success however partial and however long it's taken.

You're Mum would be proud of you Priority One.

Di

[PriorityOne]

Finally, after all these years of fighting, challenging and appealing.... a partial success and my late Mum was in fact eligible for continuous care for the first 18 months of her care. This is quite arse about face however, since her condition never improved - but according to the NHS, her nursing care needs somehow morphed into the social care needs of severe cognitive decline (hint of sarcasm there). Such a load of shite....

Getting the NHS to pay out anything however may yet prove difficult - I've been told they ask for invoices..... from 15 years ago? They're having a laugh surely? I have evidence that fees were paid from my late mother's bank account via her solicitor who had Power of Attorney - and I'd like to think this would be enough but we'll see.

What a journey this has been..... ending with me sitting in front of a Panel meeting at the back end of last year going through all of my late Mum's history yet again. It's put fighting the debt collection industry completely in the shade by comparison, I can tell you.....

Just thought I'd let you all know :-)

[PriorityOne]

Re: Dementia.... re-claiming care home fees.

Any further news on this P1? This is, unfortunately, an area of interest for me as my DM has Alzheimer's and we are just looking to get an assessment for continuing care. I have only done research as yet but suspect it will be a struggle to get the funding that we feel she is entitled to. The subject of continuing care funding is not well publicised due to the fact that, if everyone that was entitled to it actually received it, the NHS would be in very serious trouble. I, like you, am not going to give up in this fight!

It's ongoing Billytommo..... the NHS haven't done the retrospective assessment yet..... and it's been over 3 years now since the claim was lodged. The latest was a request from my solicitor (to me) for a full breakdown of Mum's needs and in as much detail as possible, so she can try and marry them up with evidence in Mum's medical records.... and criteria in the Needs Portrayal Document. It was a nightmare to put together and took weeks for me to do in line with the NPD. Going back there in my mind was also upsetting, as you can imagine.... but I completed a section at a time until it was done.

The NHS seem to be a tad awkward about releasing her archived medical records at the moment. Fortunately, there are detailed copies of all records from the Home where Mum lived though..... which I'm hoping they won't be able to fight too hard. My reckoning is.... it's gonna take another couple of years. The way this Government's going, by that time we may not even have an NHS :-/

[billytommo]

Re: Dementia.... re-claiming care home fees.

Any further news on this P1? This is, unfortunately, an area of interest for me as my DM has Alzheimer's and we are just looking to get an assessment for continuing care. I have only done research as yet but suspect it will be a struggle to get the funding that we feel she is entitled to. The subject of continuing care funding is not well publicised due to the fact that, if everyone that was entitled to it actually received it, the NHS would be in very serious trouble. I, like you, am not going to give up in this fight!

[PriorityOne]

Re: Dementia.... re-claiming care home fees.

Ok.... the battle continues. Spoke to my solicitor this morning and all's ok - I misjudged what she was trying to say and they do have all the care home notes.

Alzheimer's is not social care; it's primary health care and my mother had this way back in 2002/3.... but we'll see what happens. Still playing a waiting game at the moment.

Is there no way you could appeal yours through solicitors Elsa? I know you're worn down by it all but it might be worth looking into if someone else is willing to run with it and take the stress from your shoulders.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Dementia.... re-claiming care home fees.

Now I've calmed down somewhat.... I'll ring my solicitor on Monday and try and work with her to the best of my ability. Fortunately, I made a copy of all my late mother's care notes before posting them off and also kept all her bank statements after her own solicitor released them to me around the same. These show the precise amounts paid to fund her care from 2003 until she passed in 2008. The retrospective claim is from 2004 onwards, so she was already in the care home for Alzheimer's prior to that time.... but I'm still expecting the NHS to try and wriggle around it because there's a large sum involved.

I seem to spend my life fighting for something. No sooner has all the workplace stuff come to an end than this rears it's ugly head..... I've really had enough but am not going down without a fight.

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Dementia.... re-claiming care home fees.

hi SXGuy,
It's all down to whether your Nan's needs would have been classed as Social Care or Primary Health Care Needs. They'll do anything they can to class it as Social to avoid the NHS paying.
Have a look at the decision support tool document linked below. From Page 20 onwards it covers the various "domains" (behaviour, cognition, continence etc) and how they're scored.
If you think your Nan is eligible you'll need to ask for an assessment.Contact the Continuing Healthcare department at the local NHS Clinical Commissioning Group.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...Healthcare.pdf

Other useful links:
http://caretobedifferent.co.uk/payin...ng-healthcare/
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/sc....php?fileID=75

If you decide to go ahead - I would do a SAR for all the relevant care notes - Nursing Home, GP and Hospital so you have your own copy of the notes (the NHS will obtain them internally)

Be prepared for a battle!

Elsa x

[SXGuy]

Re: Dementia.... re-claiming care home fees.

Just came across this thread and wondered if it may apply to my situation also. My nan passed away a few weeks ago. She was in a care home suffering from dementia. The council paid some of the fees and her pension was ment to cover the rest. However it did not. My mother had to pay the difference. This was over 15 years worth. After she died they recently done a review of the fees and found she had been overpaying. Refunded 800 quid. Although that was it and doesn't cover any fees she paid over those years. Her death cert says she died of dementia also. Would my mother be in a position to claim anything?

[PriorityOne]

Re: Dementia.... re-claiming care home fees.

So sorry Elsa..... it must have drained you....

I'm gutted that my previous solicitor has gone, as he seemed to be on the ball (what there was of it). I'm not confident I'll get anywhere with this now as like you say, the NHS stand to lose a lot of money and are closing ranks. So pissed off!

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Dementia.... re-claiming care home fees.

We were refused, it was an absolute farce P1. They missed loads of crucial comments from her notes, made by care staff, doctors, psychiatrists etc. Eg they didn't include that she saw big black fish flying round the room and black claws were scratching her back, so she was terrified. But included inane comments such as she liked having her hair done.
We tore them off a strip and demanded all the notes. Resubmitted with about 100 new quotes proving her condition. They added a few (to pacify us) but still didn't upgrade her score.
The Retrospective Review Panel meeting was coming up. We complained again that they had selectively cherry picked comments from her notes, ignoring more important facts.
They invited us we write a response to the initial assessment in time for the Panel meeting. I spent all week going over all the notes and writing a new report, picking out all the errors they'd made and complaining about the person who'd done it.
Unsurprisingly they closed ranks, denied our claim and found no errors had been made by their staff.

We're upset and disgusted. They've sewn us up, clearly their prime objective is financial, not duty of care.
We could appeal but it's taken so much out of us and we see little point.

Sorry you're having problems too. I think solicitors have made this process out to be far easier than it actually is

[PriorityOne]

Re: Dementia.... re-claiming care home fees.

Hi Elsa..... any updates?

I've just had an email from my solicitor (who's since changed, which really hasn't helped)!! I photocopied pages upon pages of care home records back in 2012 and posted them to the firm. The details therein formed the basis of the claim for retrospective care home fees, lodged before the September 2012 deadline.

The Needs Portrayal Document has still not been completed by the NHS but in the meantime, the (new) solicitor is now saying that we can use this delay to our advantage; asking me to describe how her condition affected her - 7 years after her death (2008) and 12 years after she moved into the care home in (2003). WTF?! I've just written back to say something along the lines of..... isn't that what I'm paying YOU for?

How the Hell am I meant to do that? Fortunately, I've still got copies of all of her records from the home on the assumption that they would probably get "lost".... but surely it's not my responsibility to dissect and analyse them all now when I'm effectively paying them to do it and have been waiting around for nearly 3 years? They've also said that the 8% contractual interest rate no longer applies..... due to some legislation that's been passed in the meantime but my claim has been lodged since 2012, so I'm querying that one as well.

Any thoughts? Am fuming!!

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Dementia.... re-claiming care home fees.

We had a deadline of September 2012 to lodge the appeal. I think it depends on dates PlanB. When did your parents pass away?

[PlanB]

Re: Dementia.... re-claiming care home fees.

We've finally had a letter confirming that Mum did qualify for a full review and that she's third down the list for that to happen. My sister and I will be invited to a meeting in November to discuss her symptoms for the review.

My Mum and Dad are both dead (I can't put that any other way really). Thousands and thousands of pounds were handed over for their care fees even though they were both 'physically' ill with round-the-clock nursing needed (i.e. not just "old"). I'm going to read back through this thread for inspiration.

Can any of you tell me whether they can still claim now that they're dead?