Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

[CherryCup]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Thank you all so very much for the help you are giving to my and my daughter.

We tried yesterday morning to seek some legal advice but most solicitors did not want to know as my daughters earning we not over 20k per year. Others would do a half hour advice for in the region of £60/£70.

We contacted CAB and luckily for us we were able to go straight up. We saw a lovely lady and she did her best to help with giving us advice.

She came up with three solutions.

1. For my daughter to return to work and continue until she is due to on to maternity leave.

2. To put in a grievance and resign. This would then effect her right to benefits as she left on her own accord. She could appeal but its up to a decision maker, which may not be work.

3. To go on the sick due to stress and to eek it out as much as possible, so my daughters maternity pay would not be in jeopardy.

She said that it is possible for an employer to revoke a dismissal.

However, if all this can be classed as harassment, then my daughter would not have to resign. For to go this route we would need proper legal advice.

She gave us the phone number of Newcastles Law Centre. We have tried several times yesterday and this morning. Telephones just ring.

I have today spoken to EHRC (thanks to Elevenssdopey). They say that it would be discrimination for implying my daughter in now incompetent due to her pregnancy. However due to the complexity of it all, the dismissal, holiday pay and more so no contract, the man was not sure if we could apply for an Employment Tribunal as there is no contract. Advised the same as CAB we need expert advice. He also suggested the Newcastle Law Centre.

Finally spoke to someone there and hopefully a solicitor is phoning us on Monday if not Tuesday. We are keeping everything crossed he can help us.

My daughter had a chat to our GP on the phone. He has said that it does sound as if she is stressed out and who can blame her. He's offered her advice on how to relax and on her health in general. She has got an appointment to see him on Monday with the view that he will issue a sick note, if her health is still the same.

Not knowing what do for the best till we get some legal advice I rang the pub to say my daughter in unwell due to stress and will not be in for any shift they had her down for this week and I will advise again next week.

[oscar]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

I have a bit of experience in dealing with unreasonable employers

Maybe so, but I have the gold star where thats concerned. Bet yours was a piece of cake compared to the shower I used to work at/with

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Nice to see that CherryCup is getting plenty of help.

Thank you all

Regards

[MrsD]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

a summer camp in the sun!!!

classic "how dare you prove me wrong, I'll get you now" syndrome

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hi Cherrycup

I have a bit of experience in dealing with unreasonable employers

No shit - you don't say!

* in one way, this is like a summer camp compared to your boss

[MrsD]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hi Cherrycup

I have a bit of experience in dealing with unreasonable employers and I think this woman is behaving like a lunatic because she has been proved wrong with the holiday pay. She now sees the fact that your daughter is pregnant as a perfect way to get rid of her. So NO she ain't about to get away with that. Its illegal and unethical (must say in my experience ethics very rarely come into it though) I would look carefully at jen's advice, it is illegal to discriminate against someone because they are pregnant, or have a medical problem(stress???).
EHRC - Contact us
these guys are great and they are not into mediation like ACAS, more the going for the jugular, give them a call and explain the whole situation to them and see what they come up with. bear in mind they are an addition to a solicitor, they can't represent you but can advise and provide the bullets so to speak.
Try not to worry and let us know what you come up with

[billypre]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

I wouldn't take her word for it that she has sorted holiday pay.

[CherryCup]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Sorry should of added, she only did look into this when I told her I had spoken to ACAS and told her by law she has to pay my daughter and every other person that works there.

[CherryCup]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hi Jen
I did not think that what ACAS told me was fair and expressed this to her but she was positive that it was correct.

As for the reasons regarding holiday pay, she claimed that she did not have to pay it as its a small business, and that side of things are dealt with her husband.

As I say she claims she's contacted her solicitor and accountant and its being sorted.

[jen_br]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

yup go to cab too they can help acas bad advice im shocked.

If you are threatened by your employer you don't have to resign you need to be taking that employer to court!

and you can "use" the holiday pay if this person has an accountant and still not been paying holiday pay all this time what is her excuse?

[CherryCup]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hi all thanks for your replies.

ACAS told me that the employer had the right to revoke the dismissal as it was said in temper.
They advised us that should my daughter feel threatened and uncomfortable to return to work then she would have to resign. She also said that we should go to the meeting.

We turned up, not a good meeting at all and it was all held within a corner of the pub, which was open with customers. I straight away stated that this is not the correct time nor place and was totally unprofessional. The employer lost her cool a few times and was told by her husband to stop it and be quiet. Even a local customer walked to the table to give his advice!! When I said that this was uncalled for and wrong she shouted at me that it was her business and he was her friend!!

As we were leaving she said that my daughter would get a written warning to which she refused to accept. The employers husband asked us to go back to sort things out on Friday before the pub opened.

As a parting shot the employer very sarcastically said that she had been on the phone to a solicitor and her accountant. She said I was correct about the holiday pay and that was now getting sorted and any money owing would be paid and as shes now getting it sorted we can't use that one against her.

Hindsight we should of never sat down at the table in the middle of the pub, as my daughter is now more humiliated than ever.

We acted on what was advised by ACAS.

Today we are going to speak to a solicitor.

[charitynjw]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

SC,

Niddy is spot on (well, it had to happen sooner or later! ) when suggesting that you seek legal representation if you wish to pursue - imho, courts & the legal system have little time or respect for litigants-in-person (they get all 'humphy' & "No, you can't play, you're not in our gang!!")

However, you should raise an official grievance (although not an absolute requirement in law, it is a factor taken into consideration, & it will be evidence that any breach of contract - in this case, that of the employer's implied duty of care - has not been 'condoned' by yourselves).
Can you access the employer's grievance procedure? (If not, you could use the info on the ACAS website)

Re not going to the Employment Tribunal - as far as I'm aware, the ET has jurisdiction over virtually all matters relating to employment disputes, & certainly cases such as yours. (Unfair dismissal?)
You do have a time limit for initiating a claim - normally 3 months or so from the date the incident took place.
You can complete an ET1 online - best though to go via legal representation - CAB might also offer a route.

If you do decide to continue, ACAS will automatically become involved for mediation - although I would be surprised if that involvement went much beyond them relaying any out-of-court offers the employer may wish to make (yes, I know, so young yet so cynical, lol!)

Re the 2 cases i mentioned earlier, 'Morrow' specifically concerns someone who was 'bawled out' by her employer, on the shop floor & in front of colleagues/customers. 'Buckland' is the authority that, once there is a breach which goes to the 'root of the contract', the 'offender' cannot legally make things right without the permission of the person 'offended'. (Although, if no complaint has been made within a reasonable time, it could be held that there is an implicit acceptance of the situation).

& remember - everything in writing (emails are good, as long as they can be printed in hard copy). You will also need evidence/witnesses - write down an account of what happened - this can then be used as 'contemporaneous' evidence at some point in the future

Good luck

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

No the employer has now crossed the line and basically sacked your daughter and now, no matter what they say - you stick to the fact that she scared your daughter and being she's pregnant and having to put up with this psycho bitch from hell, she'd have every right not to return.

Absolutely.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hi SC,

Google Morrow v Safeway Stores plc [2002] IRLR 9

even better, this lists all the cases with links to bailii etc as well:

---> Chapter 3 - Contracts of Employment

Produces:

1. Ackinclose v Gateshead Council [2005] IRLR 79 EAT
2. Allan Janes LLP v. Johal [2006] ICR 742, ChD
3. Baldwin v. Brighton and Hove City Council [2007] ICR 680, EAT
4. Barber v RJB Mining (UK) Ltd [1999] ICR 679 QBD
5. Barke v Seetec Business Technology Centre Ltd [2005] ICR 1373, CA
6. BCCI v Ali [1999] IRLR 226, HC
7. Bell v Lever Brothers [1932] AC 161 HL
8. Bracebridge Engineering v Darby [1990] IRLR 3
9. Brigden v American Express Bank Ltd, High Court [2000] IRLR 94, (QBD)
10. Brooks v Olyslager OMS (UK) Ltd [1998] IRLR 590 CA
11. Buck & ors. v Nottinghamshire Healthcare NHS Trust [2006] EWCA Civ 1576 on 23rd November 2006
12. Bull and anor v Nottinghamshire and City of Nottingham Fire and Rescue Authority etc CA 2007
13. Bunce v Postworth Ltd t/a Skyblue, [2005] IRLR 557, CA
14. Campbell v Frisbee [2003] ICR 141 CA
15. Christian Salvesen Food Services Ltd v Ali & Ors [1996] EWCA Civ 763
16. Colen v Cebrian (UK) Ltd [2004] ICR 568
17. Commerzbank Ag v Keen [2006] EWCA Civ 1536
18. Cox v Sun Alliance [2001] IRLR 448
19. Crawford v Swinton Insurance Brokers Ltd [1990] IRLR 42 EAT
20. Cresswell v Board of Inland Revenue [1984] ICR 508, Ch D
21. Crossley v Faithful and Gould Holdings [2004] ICR 1615
22. Davies v MJ Wyatt Decorators Ltd [2000] IRLR 759
23. Dawnay Day & Co Ltd v De Braconier d'Alphen [1997] IRLR 285
24. Deadman v Bristol City Council [2007] EWCA Civ 822
25. Delabole Slate Ltd v Berriman [1985] IRLR 305 CA
26. Dentmaster (UK) Ltd v Kent [1997] IRLR 636 CA
27. Dowling & Rutter v Abacus Frozen Foods [2002] SLT 491
28. Dryden v Greater Glasgow Health Board [1992] IRLR 469
29. Enfield Technical Services Ltd v Payne & Ors [2008] EWCA Civ 393
30. Faccenda Chicken v Fowler [1984] IRLR 61 CA
31. Forshaw and Chorley v Archcraft Ltd, EAT on 13th December 2004
32. Foster Bryant Surveying Ltd v Bryant, [2007] EWCA Civ 200, Court of Appeal on 13th March 2007
33. Fraser v Hlmad Ltd. [2006] IRLR 687, CA
34. French v Barclays Bank Plc [1998] IRLR 646
35. GAB Robins (UK) Ltd v. Triggs [2007] ICR 1424, EAT
36. GAP Personnel Franchises Ltd v Robinson EAT on 16th October 2007
37. GMB & Amicus v Beloit Walmsley Ltd [2003] ICR 1396 EAT
38. GMB Trade Union v Ms J Brown, EAT on 16th October 2007
39. Grant v South West Trains Ltd [1998] IRLR 188
40. Green v Elan Care Ltd, EAT on 4th March 2002
41. Greenhof v Barnsley Metropolitan Borough Council, EAT on 5th August 2005
42. Hall v. Woolston Hall Leisure Ltd [2001] ICR 99, CA
43. Harris v Richard Lawson Autologistics [2002] IRLR 476, CA
44. Henry v London General Transport Services ltd [2002] IRLR 472, CA
45. Hepworth Heating Ltd v Akers EAT 846/02 [2003]
46. Hivac Ltd v Park Royal Scientific Instruments [1946] ER 350
47. Hogg v Dover College EAT 1990
48. Home Office v Evans & Anor [2007] EWCA Civ 1089
49. Horkulak v Cantor Fitzgerald International [2005] ICR 402
50. Item Software (UK) ltd v Fassihi [2005] ICR 450
51. Keeley v Fosroc International Ltd [2006] EWCA Civ 1277
52. Keisner v Terrus Group Ltd 2006] EWHC 2765 (Ch) on 7th November 2006
53. LTI Ltd v. Radford, EAT on 19th July 2001
54. Land Securities Trillium Ltd v Thornley, EAT on 20th June 2005
55. Langston v Amalgamated Union of Engineering Workers [1974] IRLR 15
56. Luke v Stoke On Trent City Council EAT on 15th December 2006
57. Malik v BBCI [1997] IRLR 462 HL
58. Marshall Specialist Vehicles v Osborne [2003] IRLR 672
59. Martland v Co-Operative Insurance Society Ltd, EAT on 10th April 2008
60. Messrs Dowling & Rutter v Abacus Frozen Foods Ltd [2000] ScotCS 315
61. Mezey v South West London and St George's Mental Health NHS Trust Court of Appeal on 8th February 2007
62. Miller Bros & FP Butler Ltd v. Johnston [2002] IRLR 386
63. Morrow v Safeway Stores [2002] IRLR 9
64. New ISG Ltd v Vernon & Ors ChD on 14th November 2007
65. Nottingham University v Fishel [2000] ICR 1462 QBD
66. Omilaju v Waltham Forest LBC [2005] ICR 481 CA
67. Palmanor Ltd v Cedron [1978] IRLR 303
68. Peninsula Business Services Ltd v Sweeney [2004] IRLR 49
69. Ralton v Havering College of Further & Higher Education [2001] IRLR 738
70. Regent Security Services v Power [2007] EWCA Civ 1188 on 20th November 2007
71. Ridgway v JP Morgan Chase Bank National Association QBD on 8th June 2007
72. Robinson v Crompton Parkinson Ltd [1977] ICR 938, EAT
73. Robinson v Tescom Corporation, EAT on 3rd March 2008
74. Rock Refridgeration v Jones [1997] ICR 938 CA
75. Rossiter v Pendragon plc, Court of Appeal on 10th May 2002, [2002] EWCA Civ 745
76. Sajid v Chowdhury [2002] IRLR 113, CA
77. SBJ Stephenson Ltd v Mandy [1999] EWCA Civ 1720
78. Scully UK Ltd v Lee [1998] IRLR 259 CA
79. Secretary of State for Employment v ASLEF [1972] 2 QB 455
80. Secretary of State for Scotland v Taylor [1999] IRLR 362
81. Shepherds Investments Ltd & Anor v Walters & Ors[2006] EWHC 836
82. Shiner Ltd v Hilton [2001] IRLR 842
83. Solectron Scotland Ltd v Roper [2004] IRLR 4
84. Spring v Guardian Assurance [1994] IRLR 460 HL
85. Stanley Cole (Wainfleet) Ltd v Sheridan [2003] IRLR 52
86. Stewart v The Moray Council, Central Arbitration Committee, 9th December 2005
87. Tesco Stores v Pook [2004] IRLR 618
88. TFS Derivatives Ltd v Morgan [2004] EWHC 3181 (QB), High Court on 15th November 2004
89. Thanet DC v Websper EAT on 30th October 2002
90. Thomas v. Farr plc and Another [2007], ICR 932, CA
91. Transco v O'Brien [2002] IRLR 441
92. Turner Coulston (A Firm) v Janko, EAT 3rd September 2001
93. Vakante v. Governing Body of Addey and Stanhope School (No 2) [2005] ICR 231, CA
94. Viggosdottir v Islandspostur HF, EFTA Court case E-3/01 [2002] IRLR 425
95. WA Goold (Pearmak) Ltd v McConnell [1995] IRLR 516
96. Wallace Bogan & Co v Cove [1997] IRLR 453 CA
97. West Midlands Co-Op Society Ltd v Tipton [1986] ICR 192 HL
98. Wheeler v Quality Deep Ltd [2005] ICR 265
99. William Hill Organisation Ltd v Tucker [1999] ICR 291 CA
100. Willow Oak Developments Ltd (trading as Windsor Recruitment) v. Silverwood and Others [2006], ICR 1552, CA
101. Wincanton Ltd v (1) Cranny and (2) SDM European Transport Ltd [2000] IRLR 716, CA
102. Wigan Borough Council v Davies 1979 IRLR 127 EAT
103. Withers v Perry Chain Co Ltd [1961] 3 All ER 676
104. Woods v WM Car Services (Peterborough) Ltd 1981 IRLR 347

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hmm,

No the employer has now crossed the line and basically sacked your daughter and now, no matter what they say - you stick to the fact that she scared your daughter and being she's pregnant and having to put up with this psycho bitch from hell, she'd have every right not to return.

Employees do have rights, you need to be speaking to someone that specialises in this - can you not speak to a local employment legal expert? They may well do pro-bono or no-fee so to speak..?

ACAS are more mediation, however your daughter needs to seek professional help. Seriously, stop speaking to the employer - if she calls back say you're dealing with lawyers and they'll hear from you in due course, via the lawyer. then hang up

That will shock them into thinking, shit, we've messed up here..... they may then make an offer of cash or something to walk away. However stop talking to them, thing is you have a lot of rights here, and so get to a solicitor and stop wasting time on here

serious, it's what you need to do!