Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

My hubby went to pick up my daughters wages. After the landlord gave them to him he said that our daughter should be getting a big cheque possibly it should be ready to collect on Tuesday. This is her holiday pay for the last four years!!
He said of course tax and NI will be deducted. This will mean so much to my daughter.

What my husband couldn't quite understand as he was almost out the door when the landlord whispered to him, they have taken legal advice and they don't have a leg to stand on. As hubby has slight hearing problem and it was a whisper he now wonders if he actually said don't let my daughter try for anything else as she wont have a leg to stand on.

Eh?

What was that - they also discriminate against someone with no leg on which to stand?

Disgraceful!

[garlok]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hi CC,

Been out most of the day and just got in. Oscar is probably right at the minute. Patience in legal matters is a requirement. Difficult and frustrating I know.

See what Tuesday brings by way of a cheque. I would have thought that their accountant is the advice they have had and he/she has told them to get the holiday pay sorted as it may blow up in their faces along wiht all the other stuff I have quoted to you. Now they have said that they will be stopping NI and Tax on the amount owing. Be careful and look carefully. For simplicity they will probably pay this and calculate on the basis of this payment being in one week's earnings. For the moment get the thing cashed is my advice and then approach the Revenue, there will be a reference number for THEM on any payslip or advice note that deducts taxes etc. that will get you (eventually) to the tax office which handles their affairs.

As this is holiday pay you say for the last four years it is likely that spread over that time your daughter depending on her code number will not be liable to pay that tax and she can claim a refund for that overpayment. Do not be afraid of the Tax people they will help enormously if you approach them in a proper way but it will be your daughter who will have to deal with this. The Revenue are very very unlikely to deal with you or your husband regardless of your daughter's condition.

You can claim in fact seven years back so the four in question should not be a problem. A little bit more effort on her part could net her a bit more money.

Good to hear that things are moving at least in the right direction. By the way sign NOTHING other than a simpe basic receipt for the cheque and the cheque alone and get it cleared asap.

regards
Garlok

[oscar]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

I think any response to your last post CC would be straw clutching - it could mean absolutly anything - especially if your hubby mis-heard. It could simple be that they have found they have to pay holiday pay. Sure you can appreciate there COULD be many alternatives given what has happened over the last few weeks / months.

I think it is best to wait and see what happens next week.

[CherryCup]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hi all

Yet again thank you for all your on-going help.

My daughter is not feeling to good today, I feel as I have had the stuffing knocked out of me also.

Here is one bit of news.

My hubby went to pick up my daughters wages. After the landlord gave them to him he said that our daughter should be getting a big cheque possibly it should be ready to collect on Tuesday. This is her holiday pay for the last four years!!
He said of course tax and NI will be deducted. This will mean so much to my daughter.

What my husband couldn't quite understand as he was almost out the door when the landlord whispered to him, they have taken legal advice and they don't have a leg to stand on. As hubby has slight hearing problem and it was a whisper he now wonders if he actually said don't let my daughter try for anything else as she wont have a leg to stand on.

Anyway this is one small victory for my daughter.

When hubby collect the cheque next week, perhaps whatever was said will be mentioned again.

Hope you all have a lovely weekend.

Thanks again for all your help.

[jen_br]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Most small town pubs DON"t do this they dont issue welcome packs etc. .. but pay slips would show your in employment.

[charitynjw]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Did you mean Morrow v. Safeway Stores Plc [2001] UKEAT 0275_00_2109 (21 September 2001)?

BAILII link here.

Possibly, but this from Old Square Chambers quotes [2002] IRLR 9
http://www.oldsquare.co.uk/ca/cases/1/?c=1200235

Still, we're in the right area.

Another thought - even if there is no written contract, there should, by law, be a written statement of particulars of employment within 2 months of starting the job (a 'welcome' letter or similar could suffice, as long as it had the appropriate content)

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Google Morrow v Safeway Stores plc [2002] IRLR 9

Did you mean Morrow v. Safeway Stores Plc [2001] UKEAT 0275_00_2109 (21 September 2001)?

BAILII link here.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

I have today spoken to EHRC (thanks to Elevenssdopey). They say that it would be discrimination for implying my daughter in now incompetent due to her pregnancy. However due to the complexity of it all, the dismissal, holiday pay and more so no contract, the man was not sure if we could apply for an Employment Tribunal as there is no contract.

This is patently nonsense, as there plainly is an employment contract even if it is only verbal or implied.

[garlok]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

No Casp, I don't always get things right. Just look at the mess we got into and still are in to a great extent. I have just had to fight seemingly all my life against injustice, lies, deceit and intolerance. Those lessons have been seared into my very soul. So now I am the intolerant one very much so of the things just listed.

Very profound I know but the truth nevertheless.

regards
Garlok

[garlok]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hi CC

I am glad that you have started to think about this more clearly. Firstly what will appear on your daughter's payslips will be the EMPLOYEE's NI contributions. It is most unusual for the employers element calculated at an extra 13.8% of gross earnings before tax to be shown on an employees payslip. I can't remember the exact figures without looking them up but I think you will find that the element shown will come out at 12% of gross earnings. In total NI contributions total 25.8% of gross earnings before tax.

I have just managed to take some professional accountancy advice on this for you and direct from the Revenue website your daughter in the tax year 2010-2011 will have to earn between £97 per week (lower limit) and £844 per week (upper limit) to fall into the NI contribution requirement. The figures for 2011-2012 Tax year are £102 to £817 per week. If I do my calcs based on your posts so far it would appear that any contribution taken from your daughters salary needs to be checked against her gross earnings on a weekly basis. Something is not right here.

Secondly, you need to get some terminology correct in your mind here. No one is exempt from tax in the UK despite being on minimum wage. Your daughter is still liable for tax and could be asked to fill in a self assessement tax return at any time. The reality is that she has not reached the limit of her tax allowances and therefore her liability for tax may be zero to be paid. Her tax code should appear on the payslip and that can be converted into a figure that she can earn before becoming liable for income tax.

There is definitely the heady aroma of stale fish about this lot.

Ask who the acountant is and what their qualifications are to do the job. If, and they should be, they are a member (even part qualified) of any of the professional accountancy institutions then they can be removed from that institution and be left with no qualifications for any irregularity in their accounting methods.

In addition to all of the above suspect accountancy pratices I think I would be moving along the lines of constuctive dismissal on a number of grounds.

regards
Garlok

[caspar]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hi Garlok,

You may possibly answered some of the things my brotherinlaw was thinking about last night.

Garlok seems to have the gift of second sight - he always predicts what people are going to think! There again, I think the name Garlok sounds a bit like a wizard - might explain it!

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

With regards to them supposedly sorting out the holiday pay issue, how long do you think a reasonable amount of time for them to do this?

7 days and certainly in the next pay packet.

[CherryCup]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

With regards to the Employers National Insurance contributions, these do appear on my daughters payslips.

As far as my daughter is aware, each week on a Tuesday the hours each member has worked are telephoned through to the accountant who then sends the payslips which is usually on the Thursday and the Employers then make the wages up for the Friday.

As far as we are aware none of the workers pay tax as they never work enough hours and fall exempt due to also being paid the NMW.

I have had another thought. Next week my daughter will turn 21, maybe there is a reason we don't know about due to her change of age which could have caused them also to want rid of her. Possibly that may mean nothing at all but because the whole thing stink I am now questioning everything that has been said by them.

With regards to them supposedly sorting out the holiday pay issue, how long do you think a reasonable amount of time for them to do this?

[CherryCup]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

Hi Garlok,

You may possibly answered some of the things my brotherinlaw was thinking about last night.

He was thinking how has anyone looking over the books never raised any queries as to why there has been no holiday leave paid.

You are right in saying the whole thing stinks, we certainly smelt a rat in the light of things.

Something that the employer said to my daughter at the meeting is what prompted my brotherinlaw to smell a rat also.

Employer has asked my daughter to look after the pub whilst they had a holiday within the next few weeks. However at the meeting she claimed that it was not a holiday and in fact they were going to get married, but would be now be unable to fund it!

There is a few other things that she claimed but I really don't want to post on here, just in case there is repercussions.

[garlok]

Re: Daughters Employer Doesn't Give Holiday Pay

I have just read through this thread again and the whole thing stinks. The situation, the advice given by people at CAB, ACAS etc.

1. There are parts of the European Union Working Hours Directive which cannot be avoided by any employer and which have not been able to be avoided by our politicians and some of those regulations govern the payment of holiday pay even to temporary workers.
2. Under the Contracts of Employment Act and various Statutory Instruments stemming from it there has to be a contract of employment unless the worker is working for and is directly employed by a registered employment agency( in which case the contract will be with the agency) or the "employee" is in fact (like many technical jobs) a limited company in which case at the very least an implied contract under English Common Law of some sort will exist between the limited company and the employer.
3.We all belong to a compulsory club in the UK and its called currently the HMRC Club, whereby assessemnt for taxation and National Insurance contributions are compulsory also please note with the latter there is a very signifcant EMPLOYERS contirbution to be made which is why this lot are trying to evade the issues. They obviously are and have been evading paying this. Thsi is a serious criminal offence.
4. The excuse about "small businesses" is the biggest load of rot being spouted here. 2008 I think it was all the regulations changed and ALL please note ALL businesses, partnerships, self employed, agencies, clubs, associations, societies, voluntary organistaions and more were brought under the regulations and umbrella of the Corporation Tax Regulations. There is no escape. As there is food being served within and on the premises, the addition of VAT implications as to the conduct of the business also can be brought into question.

My advice is to use the anonymous reporting lines to the Inland Revenue and Customs that you suspect irregularities in the running and accounting procedures of this business. I can assure anyone reading this that the landlady concerned will not be able to get nasty with their investigators and she certianly won't like it. Excise enforcement officers in the UK are the most powerful law enforcement officers in the world and they have no second thoughts about locking people up until they have finished and they don't need a court to do it, even in this day and age.

Finally take a look at the law society website and they do have help areas to assist in finding a solicitor plus the Bar Association has the direct public access scheme wher you do all the legwork under the direction of a barrister but it does cost and then they do have a pro bono unit as well.

regards
Garlok