New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

*o and don't worry I am not trying to tell you all something Mr Looloo and I are not planning a bubba*

Good job or i'd have to kick his arse innit girl? ;Hmm ;EEK ;LOL ;LOL

[LooLoo]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

*o and don't worry I am not trying to tell you all something Mr Looloo and I are not planning a bubba*

Good job or i'd have to kick his arse innit girl? ;Hmm ;EEK ;LOL ;LOL

Mr Niddles Noodles....... ICE GROUND ON SKATING! GIRL GIRL GIRL

[diddlydee]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

lol @ girl!!!

I needed to work to up our income when hubbies income couldn't pay all the bills, due to the recession. To be honest, I didn't even consider looking to the benefits system, I just found a job with hours 9-3, working from home, so I can work all year round.

Ok, perhaps I'm lucky to have found such a job; but, if I were on benefits, I could have spent quality time with my daughter during the holidays, going to the park, having picnics etc, instead of leaving her to her own devices much of the day.

But I chose to help support our family, rather than look to someone else to do it.

I've managed to get to the ripe old age of (coughs) 39, and have never signed on or applied for any benefits, nor has my hubby.

I think they should take away child benefit, and also free bus passes, and the heating allowance scheme - which goes to ALL in the age related categories irrelevant of need, and consider a better way of distributing the monies to those that NEED, not that those that want or have got used to having. I'd happily give up the child benefit, in fact, it goes straight to my daughter who saves it for her future.

I don't think benefits should be banned parsee, but seriously, families with loads of kids are better off at home than at work, and that can't be right? Why should someone not working (not through illness or short term unemployment) have a lifestyle equal to, or better than me?

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

I can't believe what I'm reading to be honest. Lets have no welfare state.. India, yes lets aspire to their idea of welfare and development it's people.

My dad died when I was 10. My mam was a stay at home mam, dad went out to work. Suddenly we lost dad. My mam then worked in a kitchen at lunch time, cleaned on the afternoon and studied in the morning (for the future).. was back home for when her two young girls got home from school. Cleaning for 2 hours? Cooking for 2 hours? Yes, that is going to keep the roof over our heads, us fed, clothed, utilities, warmth isn't it. My mam was able to recieve a small amount of widows pension to help us out. Think about it. At no point did my mam have the ethic of scrounging. By god she tried. She now found herself under the single parent category, a category which is full of stereotypical opinions.

If we didn't have that welfare help, me and my sister would have ended up as 'latch key kids' fending for ourselves, roamng the roads on a night and not having our mam (or our dad) around to help us with right and wrong.

It really pisses me off when views are expressed about groups of people because nobody ever knows any persons individual circumstances.. well thanks for that, thanks for wanting me as a teenager to not have the stability I had after losing my dad, thanks for expressing your view that I should not be a stay at home mam full time, should quit studying to better our future so I can work in Tesco's on a night and thanks for having the general conscensus that I should not receive any benefits during this time even though DH and I have paid and stupid amount in tax ourselves over the years..

Sweeping generalisations have no place in society as every bloddy single person is different. You never know what id going to happen, what is around the corner.. and i'll tell you this, when DH and I had children we could afford to have them. Can we afford them now, without chbenefit? I don't know but all I know is that from being bankrupt, from having my SOA examined, it was deemed that with even the Ch benefit, tax credits we did not have any surplus income.. i.e. in the eyes of the official reciever we didn't bring in enough every month to cover what is deemed sufficient to cover basic living needs let alone make payments back to creditors.

Ch benefit is there, we get it for our two children, it's helping with the costs associated with bringing them up.. for now. It's not forever, I didn't want this, but it's where we are, it's what happened. We're being propped up at a time when we need it. Take that away from us and we'll survive, we'll keep our roof just now, we'll eat but it would be dire for our children. No money for anything.

So coming from a girl who lost her dad as a child and and women recovering from things going horribly wrong and ending up bankrupt/losing her home I'd like you to take a step back - there's those of us out there that are dealing with life and have little control over what happens. That's where welfare comes into play and for people to mix 'people like me' with 'people like them (abusing the system)' really narks me.. twice in my lfe I could have ended up a filthy, homeless, starving person.. think i'm exaggerating? For some that really could happen.

A decent, lovely girl like me could have ended up on the streets of a night, addicted to whatever hardstuff with a mam who couldn't cope with it all and is an alcholic. I agree with Jen that we have to have measures in place to make sure people when they hit rock bottom, recover because if we don't what kind of society would we have?

[jen_br]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

Im not on a high horse... and im annoyed you think I am. I quoted your post because it made it easier to reply to. Obviously we disagree on this. My husband pays the higher rate of tax too... and he doesn't begrudge it too much because he knows where it goes.

Well you said about the disabled and elderly and I agree they need taking care of but do they need free tv licences? Lets cut that.. 100.00 or so per year per person im sure that will save alot.. Surely TV is a luxury compared to food for a child no?
I know how much child care is (remember I have a BABY here and no not 10 years ago) and my local one charges 35-40.00 per day. its free when they are 3 years old so please don't try to tell me that you can get it cheaper and its afact because I live in a poor county and thats about as cheap as it gets sadly.

If you want to make the money your not always able to change your work pattern... Im fortunate that I do stay at home work, and even more fortunate that I have a husband that makes an ok living... But I have seen when we have hit bottom where one person is ill or hurt and how much of an impact that has on our daily expenses... sometimes not being able to afford the basics.

You don't get it.... Im trying to say why cut child benefit when there are PLENTY of other things we can cut on (foriegn spending, tv licences, better budgets for MPs, Free presecriptions, sending MILLIONS of pounds on international aid, free dentist the list goes on.etc etc etc)

And if you REALLY believe your 1000.00 per month tax you pay is funding a family then your whacked.. take a look at where your tax goes I can tell you right now that barely any of that goes towards child benefit. That would be like someone who rides their bike to work or walks says "why should my taxs go to road works... I don't use the roads"...

If BIGGER countries like America and Canada can afford things like Child benefit etc and not be in as much debt as the UK then maybe the UK needs to look at where its spending the money... .

People will have sex... and have babies its a matter of life.. condoms or not accidents happen.... So what we put these kids in the system and we STILL pay for them. I for one hope your never in the situation where this happens...

2012 the olymics is going to cost this country a FORTUNE... it already has. (sure its created some jobs) but it will cost the taxpayer a silly amount yet we are scraping the money for our kids. Does that seem right?

anyway like I said before we will agree to disagree.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

You're deluded woman!! Tv licence is a corporation, ie BBC - the funds of that stay there so forget it. I'll get you an invoice from my neighbour that has 2 kids and pays less than you quoted for childcare (why would I lie) and your point about USA/Canada - forget comparison, we have nhs that eats a huge budget - they do not.

As for politicians, yep point agreed - waste if space. However, child benefit is a luxury - it has to be abolished totally. So does jsa and is.

Love it or hate it, you're speaking to someone in the know Jen. Lol. I'm not guessing, I'm telling you now that abuse cripples the system.

Of course there are genuine cases but so what!! If you can work then do it. Your parents never claimed and you're alright, likewise with mine - so it proves we do not need a benefit system. Society has though, come to rely on it.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

P.S Jen, not picking on you lol. Just think you've read too much daily express/mail and reckon you ought to try a new tabloid!!

Benefit abuse will bring us to our knees long before the banks failures will. That's a certainty. Oh yea, I think I gotta work 5yrs extra at the end of my career as well - why? To fund the spongers!! Yipee

[jen_br]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

Canada has an NHS... and we manage to give out baby bounus (child benefit) and we help out a lot of our moms dads etc... but as for welfare we run it differently.. if your on welfare and Farmer Joe needs cherry pickers you need to pick cherries or you get no money... Soo maybe we should do that here (farmer joe will pay like 25p on the pound for the workers)

Thing is, chidcare varies across the country like rent (like angelic said).. my childcare is 35-40.00 a day 180.00 a week for basic care it includes food and nappies I can get it for 30.00 a day but i need to provide food and nappies therefore it would work out more for me.

I just think we need to help those less fortunate... we have no problem-o sending 100000000 over to hati or anywhere that has an earthquake.. yet we have homeless children.. it makes me sad.

Not every woman who leaves their husband is fortunate to find someone to take them in and be generous I know many of housewives here in my town that are not so lucky as me..... and I think we should take care of them. Im not saying furnish them with gifts but give them the tools (free childcare, etc) to help them.

The point is we can't just cut people off entirely we will end up like some parts of america with high crime rates looting and other malicious acts.

Cb has nothing to do with spongers its a form of credit everyone get so how is this crippling us? Probably no more then what we have spent on the olympics!

PS don't read tabloids

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

Of course there are genuine cases but so what!! If you can work then do it. Your parents never claimed and you're alright, likewise with mine - so it proves we do not need a benefit system. Society has though, come to rely on it.

have you actually read my post. nid, I'm really disappointed. Just because your parents didn't get a penny from the system, doesn't prove it's not needed!

[diddlydee]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

I think, personally, that the welfare system was a good idea to help those in desperate need. Without any support, perhaps we too would be like India or Mexico where no-one helps, and no-one cares.

The bitterness by many is caused by the abuse of the system, and an often negative attitude of "I don't need to worry because the benefits system will do it for me". There are too many people on benefits that don't need to be; that could work if they HAD to - but they have been given a choice not to.

I don't claim to have all the answers, or even the slightest knowledge of what should be done, but I for one cannot believe that the higher than average earners couldn't give up child benefit, or that pensioners with a few quid (and there are many of them) couldn't live without their heating allowances, so that the money could be better used.

Why dole out money to those that have enough already?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

Jen,

I agree what you're saying about funding disasters - we need to look after our own first, however that said we can't win with all the PC bollocks in the country. Also, a massive drain, is immigration (I mean ethnics). My wife runs a department for the council and her budget is shocking - basically its a bottomless pit - all so someone that can't speak our language can claim benefit - using an interpreter - in my view, you must speak our language to get any benefit - that is the main gripe I have.

Yep, i'm anti benefits cos i've seen years of abuse - basically if you're on benefits you should be worse off than someone working - also, whats with all this paying cash into account? Make it harder to scam by issuing tesco food vouchers which must be used for food - not tobacco/alcohol. Then you can issue less, like £30p/w....

How many piss-heads do you pass on an average day, in town? Think about it, each of those probably costs the taxpayer a good £100 per week - to what, sit there and get pished out their faces? Nah, no thanks - shoot em or send em on a cruise for 3 years til they are dry!

I am hardline, cos I don't suffer fools lightly - point is there is no medium or middle ground, the system stinks and is rotten to the core. Close it down before we all end up being a communist state, Cuba anyone (without the sunshine?).....

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

[quote=Miche*]

Of course there are genuine cases but so what!! If you can work then do it. Your parents never claimed and you're alright, likewise with mine - so it proves we do not need a benefit system. Society has though, come to rely on it.

have you actually read my post. nid, I'm really disappointed. Just because your parents didn't get a penny from the system, doesn't prove it's not needed![/quote:2slpnxtt] Hi Miche,

Yea I read your post but was using iPhone so found it hard to reply cos it was so long (on a smaller screen remember)..... Ok, if you go back to my original post in here I clearly stated (and i'll do so one last time) that if you've paid in then you should be able to claim back against tax paid for the last 2 or so years. Ok, i'll explain benefits to you so it makes sense...

JSA - comes in two forms, income based and RITY (relevant income tax year) based. The main differences are a one is similar to income support (income based) and the other is based on your previous two tax years. Ok, forget income based, it's irrelevant to my point. So if you have a full 2year tax record you're able to currently claim JSA contribution based, which is the same amount as income based but there are no restrictions for the first 6mth because you have in essence paid into the system. In this initial 6mth you are not "forced" to apply for jobs you may not want, you get a right to be choosy.

So, in your parents case as your dad was clearly the breadwinner then your mum would be able to claim benefit based on his (i.e. the main family breadwinners) previous taxes paid - I never for a moment suggested your mum didn't warrant benefit - I did say that if the breadwinner has paid into the system then they or their spouse (upon death only) should be able to claim - it's only fair.

I also think the rate should be higher, like even a percentage of the tax paid each month.... that way those that earned little, gets little benefits - those that earn lots would claim more in benefits thus avoiding a stigma and being able to continue some sort of normality for a set period, maybe 1-2 years.

I don't dispute your personal circumstances but I cannot change what I believe in because I like you - that'd be unfair to you and me, if I did that. It is my opinion, and nothing more. I would never sit there and slag a [size=5]sponger[/s] claimant off - if they can get free money good on them, but they are the ones with no pride - so I hope they feel good about themselves when they shut their eyes at night....

Don't take my comments personally or collectively - they are general comments, aimed at responding to a thread that interests me. Benefits is like politics, don't discuss it with your mates... lol

[LooLoo]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

I think some really valid points raised - and to be honest without our welfare state what a mess we could be in. anyway not much i can say as most points be covered much better than I could put them!

lol @ girl!!!

If i hear bloody "girl" one more time *muttering and grumbling under breath*

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

OI, calm down girl.....

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

nid honestly mate I despair. You're saying there's no middle ground, it's rotten to the core etc, but the system was there when I was a little girl. We needed the system back then. Can you not appreciate that my mam's widow's benefit stopped my life spirralling into chaos at a time when we were only just coping as it was?

Ok, you've seen the abusers (I'm picturing you a 'Roy Cropper' ala Boys from the Blackstuff lol) but not everybody who gets benefits keep them for life or decides to 'sit on their backsides now thank you very much'

That's not what the benefit system is supposed to be about. Ok, they're there the abusers and I do agree that we really do need welfare reform but the system is needed sometimes for geniune reasons. Don't tar us all as 'dirty rotten scoundrels' (my words not nid's)

I don't take your comments personally but I just can't fathom how on one hand you can say there's no mddle ground and then say those who've paid into the system should be able to claim.

So many sweeping statements that I do take personally though.. tens of thousands DH and I have paid into the system, we now receive £10.31 per fortnight for housing and council tax benefit - I'm getting 'free money'. I'm struggling with the 'pride' thing but I still feel good about myself (sometimes) but certainly don't lose sleep over it at night.

See, general statements that are your opinion, granted, you're entitled to it. It just saddens me that you think that way about 'me' and my circumstances. I am taking it personally I guess but I can't help taking it so personally as you've been so damning.

I think i'll leave this thread now nid, don't want a slanging match between the two of us. Like Jen I think i'll have to agree to disagree.