New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

[Angelic]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

There are some very strong opinions going on in here and I'd just like to make it clear that I'm not a 'benefit basher' and I also receive help from the goverment - I just don't think I should be automatically entitled to something just because I earn a shitty wage.

Yes poverty is an issue but as long as my kids are fed and kept clean/warm and in reasonable clothes/shoes then I'm not bothered about the future just yet - THEIR future is what THEY are going to make of it - it won't be my fault if they fail their standard grades due to the fact they were brought up in Primark clothes - it'll be THEIRS for not studying hard enough!

[alastairq]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

In my experience,much of the necessity for a benefits system has been of our own making, as a society.

Over the past 60 years or more, there has been much meddling with the way we are supposed to be living, in the name of progress.

Constantly we have been told that all changes are for our own good.

Now we really do have a society divided between the 'haves' and the 'have nots'.

Ever since the days of Margaret Thatcher, the 'haves' have been allowed to flourish, to the detriment of the 'have nots'... The 'haves' live in a world where materialism is openly encouraged.
At the same time, the 'have nots' became ever more trapped within a system where...in reality, there was little to hope for...little encouragement.

For sure, there have been token gestures.....inner city projects, job creation, etc........but in reality ,nothing of substance.....nothing with any sort of permanence.

In the mad rush for the 'haves' to get more.....nothing has really been done to bring along the rest of society in concert.

We have developed an ethos of 'I'm all right, Jack, sod you'....and the media and politicians encouraged this attitude..........it made us all feel good.

I have seen the very same intolerant attitude displayed on other Bankruptcy forums.......

''If I can do it, why cannot everybody else?''

In the end, it isn't about jobs, or benefits...it's all about our individual sense of worth.

And in my view, our sense of worth has been sold down the Swanee....along with our industry, or skills, everything that laid down the foundations of prosperity our country once had.

Now we have an economy based upon the generation of nothing tangible....and those that would have once been the powerhouse workforces of our economy have been left out in the cold.

so no wonder we have benefit fraud.....drug-related crime.....and a generation who seek to take advantage.

Napoleon was spot on about this place...and the people in it.

[alastairq]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

I just don't think I should be automatically entitled to something just because I earn a shitty wage.

shitty wages are fine...as long as the basic economy is at a level to make that wage bearable.

But it isn't.....and low paid jobs really need doing [the influx of East European workers in recent times proves that]....so therefore there needs to be some encouragement from elsewhere, so we feel it is viable to earn a shitty wage.

As an example, the entire Civil Service isn't actually run by the 40k a year C1's and B grade managers..the whizz kids......it's run by the humble, incredibly low paid E2 grade admin personnel.

Without these 12k a year or less admin staff, nothing would ever really be achieved....not in a practical sense.

Yet these folk,at the bottom of the food chain, are the most abused public service workers...abused by press, public and politicians alike.

What makes those wages viable is the realisation that there are benefits...financial support....to make such low wages viably liveable on.

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

Alastair, you're probably too young to be able to answer my question but I was wondering about when my Grandma was a mam in the 1950's - 60's. Grandad worked down the pits and grandma looked after her three children. I doubt money was in abundance but during this time was there any welfare all, or did the wage cover everything? If so there's the difference. Wages covering basic domestic need. Was a miner highly paid.. no that's a stupid question - working class through and through the North East.

I think we're depressed as a country, so I would agree with your 'down the swanee' statemnt... ergh, I'm in a right downer now.. lol I need a hot choc!

[Angelic]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

I just don't think I should be automatically entitled to something just because I earn a shitty wage.

shitty wages are fine...as long as the basic economy is at a level to make that wage bearable.

But it isn't.....and low paid jobs really need doing [the influx of East European workers in recent times proves that]....so therefore there needs to be some encouragement from elsewhere, so we feel it is viable to earn a shitty wage.

I really don't think shitty wages are fine - the economic climate will never be at a level that would make that possible.

As for the influx of migrants - Are they really in the jobs that 'no-one wants' because they are 'low paid' or are they in jobs that the British public now can't get because the positions have been filled?

Incidently, the 'low paid' migrant cleaners who work for the company I work for, are on 3k more than the British staff and they work less hours.

The British government should be defending it's own country and helping the families here by upping min wage or helping in other ways like not charging to see an NHS dentist - more earnings/money in your pocket means less people claiming benefits, no?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

Jen

First things first - no need to strip my post to bits, it is MY opinion and I do actually know what i'm talking about here so you can start like all the other posts here and quote me normally, how's that for starters?

Try re-reading what I said again and this will answer all your points - to reiterate "you can then get a benefit linked to tax paid".

So again, i'll use layman this time to make it easier for you;

1. Childcare is nothing of the sort (privately maybe, not LA funded)! I live in one of the most affluent area's of Yorkshire and childcare in MY village here is more like £100 p/w. Maybe you forget I too am a parent, all you do is register with a local authority childcare providor - again, you want to pay that kind of money for childcare then do it privately - the taxpayer should not fund it.

2. I doubt we'll be worried too much about pensions - not state ones anyway and if you are then you've a lot to learn about economics - we will get virtually nothing and so you should have private provision set in place and not rely on state handouts.

3. I stated, quite clearly that pensioners and disabled persons excluded - as I say, re-read it.

4. How ridiculous! Yea, staff fraud is high but so is benefit fraud! Granted I was heavily involved in staff fraud for a long time of my career but I did start out as front line benefits/decision maker/investigations/internal fraud.

5. Kids. Ok, so they have kids and then the marriage breaks down, then the NRP should fund the child and/or the resident parent should find employment. Sorry, why should I fund a parent that cannot control their marriage? I never asked them to have kids and I certainly do not want to fund them - why on earth should I? I fund my own thanks! It was not a broad statement at all, it was quite clear - if you want kids then you should be in a stable relationship AND environment to cope and look after that child. If not, then in my opinion the parents and/or family should look after the child financially. If poverty kicks in then the child is taken to care - as per the old days (don't get me started on work houses!).

As for the scenario of a parent that dies, the family would have paid tax so the widow(er) could claim for a set period based upon the family tax paid, in say the last 5 financial years. If the father then f**ks off, he'll still have to fund the child! As I said originally, if you'd read my original post properly all this would be crystal clear!

6. Teen mums should consider a career change - their attitude will no longer be tolerated under Tories, as I say if you aint paid in then you aint getting owt back out! So in their case, too goddam right their family should support them or they should get it aborted - there are far too many fat lazy women in this country that know they have a safe haven so go out and get laid at 15, have kids and then never work again - oh, they also get a house thrown in for free..... Childcare does not cost £180 per week, in any case i'd expect them to look after their kid the best they can and work to pay their keep - we all done it for many many years, so can they! I aint working my tits off to pay for some slapper chav to sponge for 15 years!

7. Parents shouldn't have to look after their kids, kids - they should teach their kids right and wrong and explain that society does not allow for teen mums as there would be no provision for them. Without being derogatory to you, i'm getting bored of explaining this - it is quite simple, if you step down from the high horse Jen.

Wow Nid, I don't even know where to start....

firstly childcare is on avg 100-180 per week for full time nursery. WE NEED CHILDREN to keep people in jobs to populate the country and to take care of us when we are pensioners..


So Nid do you think we should remove cold weather payments and free TV licences for the elderly???

my background is benefits and more appropriately benefit fraud!!

Yeah mainly by the staff working there...

[quote:1kb5yazq]As for single mums, nope sorry. You abuse the system

Thats a pretty broad statement Nid, and kinda crappy think about it... People who have kids from a marriage and the marriage breaks down... what about them? What about men who tell women yayaya and the baby comes and they F*** off? Or what if the father dies? There are a lot of single mums out there who aren't there by choice. and there are some that are abusing sure... there will be abuse with every system you have in place (Point- The fricken expenses with the MPs)

So a teen mum has two choices, get parents to support them and the kid or get a job and pay childcare

And what job do you want them to get that will earn them over 180.00 per week to pay child care ?? and afford rent etc?

also why should parents have to look after their kids kids?


Point is you can't get away with getting rid of all benefits... it just wont and can't happen.[/quote:1kb5yazq]

[Angelic]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

[size=5]''1. Childcare is nothing of the sort (privately maybe, not LA funded)! I live in one of the most affluent area's of Yorkshire and childcare in MY village here is more like £100 p/w. Maybe you forget I too am a parent, all you do is register with a local authority childcare providor - again, you want to pay that kind of money for childcare then do it privately - the taxpayer should not fund it.''

I haven't quoted this post as such I just wanted to use is for a general purpose.

As like everything else in Britain, things vary from region to region - we have no Local Authority run childcare facilites (apart from breakfast/after school club) and the creche is £33.00 per day, per child over the age of 2 who would be a regular user.

If I was to put both of mine there, the cost would be £33.00 per day for 1 of them and closer to £40.00 IIRC as he is under 2. This would come down to the £33.00 rate when he turned 2.

Childminders are either £4.50 or £5.00 per hour depending on how sought after they are which would cost (based on an 8 hours working day) £36.00 a day or £40.00 - surely that's a bit too expensive to be able to keep up with every week?!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

I haven't quoted this post as such I just wanted to use is for a general purpose.

As like everything else in Britain, things vary from region to region - we have no Local Authority run childcare facilites (apart from breakfast/after school club) and the creche is £33.00 per day, per child over the age of 2 who would be a regular user.

If I was to put both of mine there, the cost would be £33.00 per day for 1 of them and closer to £40.00 IIRC as he is under 2. This would come down to the £33.00 rate when he turned 2.

Childminders are either £4.50 or £5.00 per hour depending on how sought after they are which would cost (based on an 8 hours working day) £36.00 a day or £40.00 - surely that's a bit too expensive to be able to keep up with every week?!

Yea, ok valid point so then all you do is change your working pattern to suit, as my parents did and I guess yours along with many millions of other families that do not have the luxury of running to the tax payer! Sorry, but in my opinion I cannot agree - if you want kids then YOU should be able to afford them - why should we pay to help you have a better lifestyle? Sorry, you want kids you pay for their upkeep - if that means you work days and hubby works night then so be it - there is ALWAYS another alternative to paying for childcare - condoms is a great start!

I am not using the word "you" literally, i.e I do not mean You as in Angelic lol. Its a figure of speech...

I'm just dead against all this give give give - we work hard for what? To pay for those that don't want to work hard and I for one really hope that the Tories do what they promised and abolish all the quango's and benefits and reform to a singular benefit payable to the genuine "those that need help"...

The above are my opinions by the way, i'm allowed to express them as is everyone else. But when you've been a higher rate taxpayer for near on 15 years it does make you sick.

[Angelic]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

Yea, ok valid point so then all you do is change your working pattern to suit, as my parents did and I guess yours along with many millions of other families that do not have the luxury of running to the tax payer! Sorry, but in my opinion I cannot agree - if you want kids then YOU should be able to afford them - why should we pay to help you have a better lifestyle? Sorry, you want kids you pay for their upkeep - if that means you work days and hubby works night then so be it - there is ALWAYS another alternative to paying for childcare - condoms is a great start!

I am not using the word "you" literally, i.e I do not mean You as in Angelic lol. Its a figure of speech...

I'm just dead against all this give give give - we work hard for what? To pay for those that don't want to work hard and I for one really hope that the Tories do what they promised and abolish all the quango's and benefits and reform to a singular benefit payable to the genuine "those that need help"...

The above are my opinions by the way, i'm allowed to express them as is everyone else. But when you've been a higher rate taxpayer for near on 15 years it does make you sick.

If you'd read my earlier arguement - You would have seen that I'm actually in agreement with you(!!) and I have changed my working hours to stay at home so I didn't have to pay for childcare.

The benefits system is there to help people - but too many (and that probably includes myself) have come to rely on that wee income boost that arrives into their bank account every Tuesday.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

If you'd read my earlier arguement - You would have seen that I'm actually in agreement with you(!!) and I have changed my working hours to stay at home so I didn't have to pay for childcare.

The benefits system is there to help people - but too many (and that probably includes myself) have come to rely on that wee income boost that arrives into their bank account every Tuesday.

Well done you - spot on! Its true though, and if you actually do it then what a great example - i.e. proves it can be done surely? Yea, ok maybe some of what I say sounds harsh but ask anyone that works for DWP or used to and they will agree, the system is a joke and the primary reason for this - the rules!

I don't get owt on a Tuesday ;Red ;Red

Why not I wonder to myself.....?

[swanfan]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

If you'd read my earlier arguement - You would have seen that I'm actually in agreement with you(!!) and I have changed my working hours to stay at home so I didn't have to pay for childcare.

The benefits system is there to help people - but too many (and that probably includes myself) have come to rely on that wee income boost that arrives into their bank account every Tuesday.

Well done you - spot on! Its true though, and if you actually do it then what a great example - i.e. proves it can be done surely? Yea, ok maybe some of what I say sounds harsh but ask anyone that works for DWP or used to and they will agree, the system is a joke and the primary reason for this - the rules!

So here's my opinion that the benefit system should be scrapped. As Niddy says it is a joke & as Angelic has pointed out she has adjusted her working situation to suit her families circumstances.

Would just add i think it's very unlikely it would happen, each recent Govt says "We'll reform the system" All they do is just change the name of the benefits & tinker with the rules slightly.

[LooLoo]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

O apparently they are thinking of bringing in better tax benefits if you married **getting lasso ready to drag Mr Looloo down the aisle if it means we will be better off**

To be honest I know a lot of working families who will struggle because of this and it is unfair the way they are doing a couple can earn jointly 80K and get it and yet a couple can have one wage of 43K and it is gone. Madness

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

LooLoo - no, you have to have one earner on HRT (higher rate tax) which affects CHb. It is fair, your friends can't possibly be worse off losing £20 per week - unless they have like 10 kids lol...

Its not unfair, what is unfair is that they are claiming and spending your hard earned tax! You know when you get paid, what is the first thing you look at? The Net amount or the tax paid? I look at tax paid - usually its always pushing £1000 per month - some people don't earn that so what, I should single handedly fund a family should I.....

hmmmm

[LooLoo]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

**looloo backs out of the room**

[LooLoo]

Re: New Benefit cuts -- tell us what you think?

On a bit of a serious note (bit hypothetcal as I have not got children) but I might feel a bit grieved if I did have a child that I would miss out on this benefit - because of mine (two jobs) and Mr Looloo's jobs some years we would earn over the tax bracket and other years under..... can you imagine that confusion and seeing as I have paid my taxes (and lots of them) I might feel a bit peed off that I didnt get this benefit yet I have paid towards it for the past 25 years.

To be honest I would have to think very seriously if i did have children if I could come back to my job here or if like Angelic to look for something partime so we could arrange childcare between me and Mr looloo.

Anyway not something I have to worry about - but I can sides for and against

*o and don't worry I am not trying to tell you all something Mr Looloo and I are not planning a bubba*