Late wife's commercial loan problem

[Streetwise]

Re: CPUTR 2008 Thread

What was his response when he saw yours?.... Was it verbal or in writing?

It was verbal,he said that it was just the way that the date had been written that was wrong, but that is not the case it was the 10 of September 2011 when he gave me a copy of the document and I emailed him on the 11 of September 2011 and asked him how there was two agreements I still have not had a reply to this Question and neither has my M.P.,I wrote to the head office on the 10th of March 2012 last week asking them to supply with a copy of the agreement as they had written to me before saying they could not find an agreement on file,I am still awaiting a reply to this letter, the loan is due for its quarterly payment at the end of this month and I think I should default on it to see what happens then,regards Streetwise.

[charitynjw]

Re: CPUTR 2008 Thread

Hi,

I remember reading somewhere that just because the agreement doesn't mention the CCA 1974, doesn't necessarily mean it is not a regulated agreement.

Definition of Consumer Credit Agreements
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...tion/8/enacted

Exempt agreements
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ion/16/enacted

"individual" includes a partnership or other unincorporated body of persons not consisting entirely of bodies corporate;
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...on/189/enacted

Original 1974 version of CCA, as agreement signed Feb 2007.

I think that the later CCA 2006 required a statutory declaration [ The Consumer Credit (Exempt Agreements) Order 2007 Schedule 3] for business purposes.

I'm certainly nowhere near as knowledgeable as the other guys & girls here, so please don't take this as gospel.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: CPUTR 2008 Thread

Remember the links above are the enacted versions (ie originals) - they've changed somewhat (ie it's no longer capped at £5k) ---> Consumer Credit Act 1974

Just remove the word enacted at the end of the other links to see the most recent version.

Is this a business loan? If not then this would not be exempt and should bear the cca regulated header.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: CPUTR 2008 Thread

Could someone tell me if this can be used for a loan agreement,a commercial loan agreement, I am the executor of my late partners estate and the bank have forged a copy of the loan agreement saying it is an original certified agreement but it is not, as I have the original and the two documents are totally different,the head office of the bank say there is no agreement on file,but the bank manager keeps sending me the forgery,regards Streetwise.

Sorry - just to clarify - it is a commercial loan thus it doesn't need to have the regulation at the top. Plus it's likely to be cca1974 exempt.

I explained all this above. ^^^^^^

It might be an idea (streetwise) to PM Paul.

See what he says?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Late wife's commercial loan problem

I've moved the posts into its own thread as it was confusing the CPUTR thread.

Niddy :niddy

[Streetwise]

Re: CPUTR 2008 Thread

Remember the links above are the enacted versions (ie originals) - they've changed somewhat (ie it's no longer capped at £5k) ---> Consumer Credit Act 1974

Just remove the word enacted at the end of the other links to see the most recent version.

Is this a business loan? If not then this would not be exempt and should bear the cca regulated header.

This is a business loan,but it has the family home as a guarantor,second charge on family home in favor of the bank,myself and my two sons still live in it and my wife left it in shares to me and my two boys in her will,I say wife but we were not married,big mess.Thanks for your help.

[alangee]

Re: Late wife's commercial loan problem

Streetwise

Is this a joint loan with your partners business partner? I seem to remember that in a post on another site, you said that it was.

Alan

[Streetwise]

Re: Late wife's commercial loan problem

Streetwise

Is this a joint loan with your partners business partner? I seem to remember that in a post on another site, you said that it was.

Alan

Yes its a joint loan,I am trying to find where we stand with this forged loan agreement, have had good advice on other sites but nobody has been able to say where we stand with the forged agreement,and what it means if the bank don't have the original agreement no straight answers,thanks for any help that can be given.

[alangee]

Re: Late wife's commercial loan problem

Can you say how different the agreements are, or how you think it is forged?

You say it is a business loan, but was it a loan to the business - Mrs Streetwise & Co - or was it to individuals, your partner and her business partner? Who now owns the business?

Do any of the agreements say what will happen if one of the partners defaults or is unable to continue with agreement? For instance, as your partner has died, does that not mean that her business partner is now reponsible for the remainder of the loan?

What input is your partners business partner having? Is any of his/her property been placed as part of any guarantee? Is he/she keeping up with the payments?

I know you have tried the SAR route, which the bank has tried to block, but have you got any further with that?

Alan

[Streetwise]

Re: Late wife's commercial loan problem

Can you say how different the agreements are, or how you think it is forged?

You say it is a business loan, but was it a loan to the business - Mrs Streetwise & Co - or was it to individuals, your partner and her business partner? Who now owns the business?

Do any of the agreements say what will happen if one of the partners defaults or is unable to continue with agreement? For instance, as your partner has died, does that not mean that her business partner is now reponsible for the remainder of the loan?

What input is your partners business partner having? Is any of his/her property been placed as part of any guarantee? Is he/she keeping up with the payments?

I know you have tried the SAR route, which the bank has tried to block, but have you got any further with that?

Alan

Hi Alan,Everybody who has looked at the loan agreement say its a forgery there is absolutely no doubt.

The agreement says that if a partner dies,its a default.

The partner owns no property except his 50% share in these properties.

The bank has only allowed me the forged loan agreement under the SAR.

This loan was due for repayment in March 2010,but was not renegotiated.My partner was still in charge of her affairs at this time.

Thanks for your input.

[alangee]

Re: Late wife's commercial loan problem

You say that the agreement says that if a partner dies then the loan becomes defaulted, but does it say what happens then? If it is a business loan, then why does it have to default if one of the partners dies? Does the business fold?

You say your partner had been trying to get a copy of the agreement for over a year before she died, but she already had a copy. Why did she need to see what the bank had?

What is your partners business partner doing about all this?

Can you say how much of the loan is outstanding?

Was it only the property you now live in that was secured against this loan?

If the loan was due for repayment in March 2010, and was not renegotiated, then it must have fell into default around then. Is there nothing from the bank from around that time?

Is your partners signature on this forged agreement? Or is it just a reconstituted agreement, because the original is not available?

Alan

[Streetwise]

Re: Late wife's commercial loan problem

You say that the agreement says that if a partner dies then the loan becomes defaulted, but does it say what happens then? If it is a business loan, then why does it have to default if one of the partners dies? Does the business fold?

You say your partner had been trying to get a copy of the agreement for over a year before she died, but she already had a copy. Why did she need to see what the bank had?

What is your partners business partner doing about all this?

Can you say how much of the loan is outstanding?

Was it only the property you now live in that was secured against this loan?

If the loan was due for repayment in March 2010, and was not renegotiated, then it must have fell into default around then. Is there nothing from the bank from around that time?

Is your partners signature on this forged agreement? Or is it just a reconstituted agreement, because the original is not available?

Alan

The business account has been transfered into the surviving partners sole name,the agreement doesn't say what happens it just says its a default if one of the partners dies.

The business partner is hoping I can sort it out.

The whole loan,only the interest is being paid.

The loan has never been defaulted on I have paid it all the time.

I think this agreement that the bank manager has been giving me is reconstituted,the partner says that its not his signature and has advised the bank of this.

My partner was asking for a copy of the loan agreement because she could not find her file,I had moved them into the attic when work was being done on the house,I only recovered them after she had died.

The loan is also secured on the two flats,not just the family home.

Regards Streetwise.

[alangee]

Re: Late wife's commercial loan problem

Hi, Streetwise, and thanks.

Sorry for all the questions, but just trying to get a clearer picture.

If the business partner is now sole owner of the business, does that mean that he now has sole ownership of the two flats? Does that not also mean that he is now responsible for the loan?

Does the value of the flats cover the loan? If not, is there a big shortfall?

He also says that it is not his signature on the agreement, does it bear your partners signature?

One last thing, have you checked with the Land Registry that there is a charge on your property? I know you say it states it in the loan agreement, but I have known cases where the lending organisations (or their solicitors) have slipped up.

Alan

[Streetwise]

Re: Late wife's commercial loan problem

Hi, Streetwise, and thanks.

Sorry for all the questions, but just trying to get a clearer picture.

If the business partner is now sole owner of the business, does that mean that he now has sole ownership of the two flats? Does that not also mean that he is now responsible for the loan?

Does the value of the flats cover the loan? If not, is there a big shortfall?

He also says that it is not his signature on the agreement, does it bear your partners signature?

One last thing, have you checked with the Land Registry that there is a charge on your property? I know you say it states it in the loan agreement, but I have known cases where the lending organisations (or their solicitors) have slipped up.

Alan

Hi Alan,My Partner left her share in the flats to myself and my sons in her will,in March 2010 she had been hoping to renegotiate with the bank to turn the loan into a capital and interest loan,it would appear on paper that the partner is solely now responsible for the loan,but the bank still have a charge on the family home.

On the market today I don't think the flats would achieve the prices to cover the loan.

It does resemble my partners signature but its not complete.

Have a copy of the land registry document on file showing bank has second charge on house.

As you probably no I have been told to contact the police to see what they have to say about the agreements,if I don't have a reply from the banks head office by the end of the month,the partner and I are considering this as the next step.

Thanks again Streetwise.

[alangee]

Re: Late wife's commercial loan problem

Have you informed the banks head office that you will contact the police if you do not get satisfactory answers? Who is the bank? There was a case OTR where RBS/NatWest were accused of falsifying a customers signature, which has now been resolved to everyones satisfaction - take that as you will!

Have you taken advice from anybody as to the validity of the charge on your house now your partner has died? What I mean is that it appears that her business partner is now responsible for the loan, so as it stands at the moment, if he were to default on the loan, you could lose your house. That does not seem right to me. If the loan is now his responsibility, then your home should not be held to ransom. I know that if someone dies, then their debts can be transferred to their estate, but in this case it is a business loan, which has been transferred to her business partner. At the moment, he has a business loan secured against a property which has nothing to do with him.

Has Paul had a look at your agreement(s)?

Alan