Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

[thaiguru76]

Re: Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

Unbelievable

Lending Stream have offered me another £600 loan. Of course I have not taken it, but that is just ridiculous.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

I have also had advice from Consumer Action Group and they differ from what you have said. They say I should be honest with them and I should push to have my loans written off because neither Sunny or Lending Stream made any attempt to get proof of my income via bank statements, etc.

I would hope they have not provided advice - that is quite unlawful. However if you mean they have said do something different then do it if you want to - of course it's the mighty CAG that only lose 90% of cases (which we rescue and try to resolve) - I am unsure whether I am insulted at your ignorance or at their stupidity - however that is for the beholder to decide but one last point - see this thread - CAG *helped* someone pay £15,000 which he shouldn't have done, and now we're trying to fix the damage they caused. Find any cases like that about AAD and I'll give you £15,000!

Nuff said. Not that we're measuring dick sizes but seriously, I have never heard of anyone actually listening to CAG over us at AAD

This leaves me in a bit of quandary and I'm not sure which way to go at the moment.

Then we'll leave you to decide. Good luck whatever option you choose.

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

Hi Thai

Ok, well before we go sending off letters I think it would be beneficial for you to understand some of the legislation that you'll be arguing. Section 55B of the Consumer Credit Act states this about assessment of creditworthiness:

(1)Before making a regulated consumer credit agreement, other than an excluded agreement, the creditor must undertake an assessment of the creditworthiness of the debtor.

(3)A creditworthiness assessment must be based on sufficient information obtained from—

(a)the debtor, where appropriate, and

(b)a credit reference agency, where necessary.

Thats it, thats all it says. Now the FCA have expanded on that a bit in section 5 of the CONC guidelines as follows:

5.2.2 (1)
Before entering into a regulated credit agreement which is excluded from CONC 5.2.1 R (see (4), (5) and (6)), a firm must carry out an assessment of the potential for the commitments under the agreement to adversely impact the customers financial situation, taking into account the information of which the firm is aware at the time the agreement is to be made.

5.2.2 (3)
A firm must consider sufficient information to enable it to make a reasonable creditworthiness assessment or a reasonable assessment required by (1)

So the challenge you must present LS and Sunny is whether they considered sufficient information to enable them to make a reasonable creditworthiness assessment. To make matters more complicated, the extent and scope of the creditworthiness assessment required is dependent and proportionate to things such as the type of credit, amount of credit, cost of credit, customers credit history, customers existing financial commitments etc.

FCA CONC 5.2.4 (3) describes the sources of information that can be used in a creditworthiness assessment, those being (but not limited to):

(a) records of previous dealings
(b) evidence of income
(c) evidence of expenditure
(d) a credit score
(e) a credit reference agency report
(f) information provided by the customer

The FCA make it very clear that the above is NOT a checklist of sources of information that creditors MUST use, but types that may be appropriate, and that creditors can apply their own discretion in deciding the types and sources of information that they may use.

So in your circumstance lets consider what information they may have used:

(a) records of previous dealings - you had 5 previous loans with Sunny and 1 with LS which had been paid off, so you had a good payment history with them
(b) evidence of income - you were self employed so the only way you could have provided this is via bank statements which is your argument
(c) evidence of expenditure - as above
(d) a credit score - I know that Sunny and LS certainly since Jan 2015 use CRA's and will provide transaction numbers/id's to prove it
(e) a credit reference agency report - as above
(f) information provided by the customer - the information you provided on the application form (which the FOS consider sufficient to make an assessment of affordability)

So I want you to be aware that although you can state that they did not ask for bank statements they will argue that they had sufficient information to make a creditworthiness assessment based on the above information.

I'm not being negative here, just want you to understand the position you are trying to argue, which is failure to ask for a bank statement, is not cause for irresponisble lending on its own (although it can be with consideration of other factors).

So with that said, I'm going to write another post to discuss the other angle of your particular set of circumstances.......

[thaiguru76]

Re: Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

Ok. Thanks SnV

Look forward to your next post

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

The FCA may consider an 'Unsatisfactory business practice or procedure' where a firm:

Section 4.31
Accepts an application for credit under circumstances in which it is known, or reasonably ought to be suspected, that the borrower has not been truthful in completing the application for credit with regards to the information supplied relevant to inform an assessment of affordability

In other words, did LS or Sunny accept your application, knowing, or suspecting, you had not been truthful in completing the application. If they had, then they may be considered to be operating unsatisfactory business practices, but you would have to tell them this which could lead to a counterclaim of fraud.

You could argue that your were vunerable, and your mental health was not sufficient to make an informed decision due to your alcohol addiction, but this would depend on a couple of things:

1) The goodwill of the creditor to write off your loan
2) If a court claim were issued, then a judge would make that decision

And this is why I asked for all that information upfront at the beginning of the thread, because when you look at things you owe about £560 to Sunny and £300 to LS and I think you should consider the risk ratio. Although its unlikely to go to court, if a claim was issued against you (or fraud proceedings brought against you), the costs would be very likely be a hell of a lot more than what you owe.

Whereas if you just argue financial hardship, you avoid all that, and the loans at most will double, due to the FCA legislation brought in Jan 2nd this year. Thats it, that the risk, with a miniscule possibility of a claim being made against you for the balance (at which point you'd make a payment proposal anyway).

My thoughts for you are do you really want this fight with everything else thats going on in your life?

If so then I can help you put together a letter arguing irresponisble lending, but I want you to do so with your eyes open on your chances of success

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

Unbelievable

Lending Stream have offered me another £600 loan. Of course I have not taken it, but that is just ridiculous.

So you see that IS an example of irresponsible lending, ESPECIALLY if you have informed them of financial hardship!

[thaiguru76]

Re: Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

Thanks SnV

I definately don't want to go down the route of letting them know I lied on the application. I agree that I don't need that extra stress. But is there a case of irresponsible lending based on number of loans as well as number of loans in quick succession i.e pay one off then take out another one within a day or two. Especially given that the amounts tended to increase.. Should that not be warning signs to the Lenders.

Also should I let them know of my alcohol and gambling addiction? That makes them aware of the issue without letting them know my employment status.

Thanks again

[thaiguru76]

Re: Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

So you see that IS an example of irresponsible lending, ESPECIALLY if you have informed them of financial hardship!

Completely agree with that. I mean they sent me the income and expenditure form so they are fully aware that I am unable to pay the existing loans let alone take out another.

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

Ok well I've actually read through the thread on CAG, I can see the people offering you advice are telling you that I'm talking rubbish. All I can say to that is that I have helped over 2,000 people with PDL debt (last time I counted), and there has only been 2 people that I wasn't able to help (who buried their heads in the sand), and look at the successful threads on this forum. Then look at the number of posters on CAG who after much bluster are left dangling. I don't need to make statements of 'that other forum is talking rubbish' I'll let the results here speak for themselves.

The reason why I ask for so much information upfront is so that any suggestions are informed and don't leave you open to more risk.

The advice you've been given on CAG has been offered, without even knowing when you took the loans out, looking at the credit agreements, whether the agreements adhere to current legislation on short term high cost loans, whether they have followed pre-contract requirements, how much risk there is to you, or even helping you understand the legislation behind what you are arguing - just a 'go for the throat'.

There has been no consideration of what the risks are to you, what it could cost you should things go wrong, or even informing you of what you will leverage in your complaint to your creditors.

Obviously you decide which advice to take, and if you do 'go for the throat' wish you the very best of luck.

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

But is there a case of irresponsible lending based on number of loans as well as number of loans in quick succession i.e pay one off then take out another one within a day or two. Especially given that the amounts tended to increase.. Should that not be warning signs to the Lenders

Personally I would say yes, however from my experience of Lendingstream they would say no. I also know that the FOS will not agree with the above either, as long as the products offered were affordable. How do I know this? Because one of our members recently had the FOS side with LS on this, and they had FIVE loans with LS!!!

The ONLY way this can be decided definitively is in a Court, and even then each case rests on its own merits, and considering the circumstances of your applications I would not like to take that chance (even though the chance of a court claim would be miniscule)

Also should I let them know of my alcohol and gambling addiction? That makes them aware of the issue without letting them know my employment status.

Thats very personal and only you can make that decision. You may get more leverage (and forebearance), by revealing that.

[thaiguru76]

Re: Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

Hi SnV

I have already decided to take your advice as you have taken the time to look into everything and as you say CAG have not.

I will be going for a repayment plan, but I still wish to know if I should mention the alcohol and gambling problems and the excessive number of loans granted over a short period of time to see if I can get a couple of the loans written off. I have no intention of mentioning the employment situation.

Thanks again for all the help you have given me so far and I don't want you to think I was being underhand by posting on CAG as well. I was just looking at my options and I apologise if I have offended you as that was definitely not my intention.

[thaiguru76]

Re: Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

Sorry I posted at about the same time as you so you can ignore part of my last message.

I think I will reveal my alcohol and gambling addiction as well as send in the income and expenditure forms. I will refuse if they ask for proof of JSA/Termination of employment.

Is there an email template or best way of wording things that you would reccommend?

Thanks again

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

All I can say to that is that I have helped over 2,000 people with PDL debt (last time I counted), and there has only been 2 people that I wasn't able to help (who buried their heads in the sand).

You have my vote mate. You don't need to sell yourself - we do it for you

Thaiguru - I'm sure SnV will help with a template. Sit tight

[thaiguru76]

Re: Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

You have my vote mate. You don't need to sell yourself - we do it for you

Thaiguru - I'm sure SnV will help with a template. Sit tight

Thanks. I'll just be glad when I know exactly where I stand. I don't need the stress when I am trying to give up alcohol.

[thaiguru76]

Re: Lending Stream and Sunny Problems

Hi SnV

I have completed the Lending Stream income and expenditure form, but not sent it to them. Can I send you a copy via an attachment so that you can look over it? It works out at £15 per month that I can pay them. Obviously It would also be the same for Sunny.

Thanks again