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  • Debts held by PRA

    Hi,

    I have come across this forum after deciding that the time has come to start addressing some long standing debts. As part of the fallout from a failed business venture 3 years ago, I found myself in a spiralling credit card debt situation. This resulted in my having defaults registered against 3 credit card accounts with total arrears in the region of £40,000. Two of these accounts were Barclaycard CCs and the third was a MNBA CC. Shortly after the defaults were registered, the 3 debts were each sold on to PRA. I have been in an arrangement with PRA to make regular monthly payments towards these debts (totalling about £50 per month). To be fair to them, they have left me alone pretty much (obviously happy to receive any money they can). My concern is however that the repayments are not making any real impact on the remaining debt and although the defaults are well on their way to dropping off my credit record, without further action I will not clear the accounts.

    I have done plenty of reading of the fantastic information in this forum and am beginning to formulate a way ahead. Clearly the first thing that I will need to do is to send out CCA requests for the debts. A couple of the accounts are quite old so maybe there is a chance of finding at least one is UE? I will, of course, set up diary entries for each account to show more detail, but I am still in the early stages of deciding to do something about this.

    My first question really is regarding the letter. Since all 3 debts are now owned by PRA would I need to send one CCA request to cover all 3 accounts or would I need to send 3 separate requests?

    DR

  • #2
    Yes
    I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

    If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

    Comment


    • #3
      Separate. Also start diary for each one and give info about each one then no x referencing made, good luck
      Last edited by The Tech Clerk; 17th March 2020, 10:29.
      I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

      If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DeaconsRevenge View Post
        Hi,

        Two of these accounts were Barclaycard CCs and the third was a MNBA CC. Shortly after the defaults were registered, the 3 debts were each sold on to PRA. I have been in an arrangement with PRA to make regular monthly payments towards these debts (totalling about £50 per month). To be fair to them, they have left me alone pretty much (obviously happy to receive any money they can).
        Hello

        I am glad that PRA have left you alone while you continue to pay them. Why wouldn't they?

        From what you say these debts were defaulted and assigned to PRA shortly after you defaulted so maybe they were identified as 'problematic' (in legal terms) by the original creditor, and sometimes debt purchasers know that they are flawed at the point of sale.

        I look forward in seeing the background to these accounts especially if they were opened a while ago, or with creditors such as Egg, Goldfish, Monument, Morgan Stanley before being acquired by Barclaycard.

        PRA took me to court and lost because they could not prove the assignment (from MBNA) and the credit agreements were irredeemably unenforceable despite PRA telling the court that they were enforceable.

        Jo explains it here >


        Originally posted by Joanna Connolly View Post
        ‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
        “UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGNMENT PROVED”


        So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


        Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


        After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


        Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


        This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


        Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

        So send a separate s77-79 CCA Request for each one of these accounts to PRA using separate envelopes, separate Proof of Posting (ideally Royal Mail Recorded Delivery) and separate £1 postal orders for the statutory fee.

        I look forward to helping you.

        Di


        Legal Disclaimer

        I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

        Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Di and Tech Clerk. Thank you so much for the warm welcome. Like so many, I suspect, I have been living in limbo with these accounts and at a loss to see a way out but this has given me at least a glimmer of light. I have always taken the view that "you make your own bed - you lie in it" and that this is a problem of my own making. But I am so glad that I have found this site. Although I always suspected that debts would be sold off at a lower value, what I have read here about the very low percentages paid by the DCAs has strengthened my resolve (if I had been offered the opportunity to buy my way out at those prices I would probably not be where I am). This seems to be less about paying due debts and more about boosting the profits of the DCAs.
          The Barclaycards were always that ( a Platinum Visa dating from 1989 and a Barclaycard Freedom dating from 2008). The MBNA card started life as a Homebase card dated 2002. I will get the CCA requests away this week and will post full details in a diary (I assume that you would prefer me to do this in the separate "diaries" sub-forum?)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DeaconsRevenge View Post
            Hi Di

            The Barclaycards were always that ( a Platinum Visa dating from 1989 and a Barclaycard Freedom dating from 2008). The MBNA card started life as a Homebase card dated 2002. I will get the CCA requests away this week and will post full details in a diary (I assume that you would prefer me to do this in the separate "diaries" sub-forum?)

            I see you have a Barclaycard from 1989 where the credit agreement may be elusive

            Are you sure the MBNA credit card "started life as a Homebase card in 2002"?

            Is it possible that you were approached in a Homebase car park by a MBNA representative with a clipboard who signed you up for an MBNA credit card?

            We had a case where that was the situation and PRA lost in court. Lack of evidence was one reason.

            No need to start a new thread for your debts - simply make a separate post for each one on this thread.

            Di
            Legal Disclaimer

            I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

            Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks Di. It was originally a Homebase branded card. As I remember it was always administered by MBNA and the Home base branding was dropped some years later.

              Comment


              • #8
                Di asked was it a car park MBNA representative clip board application???
                I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

                Comment


                • #9
                  No it was a formal arrangement with Homebase. Picked up a leaflet in the store and applied by post (as far as I remember). The card was always run by MBNA but with Homebase branding.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Barclaycard Platinum
                    • Type of account - Credit card
                    • Date commenced - December 1989
                    • Approx balance - £12,100
                    • Date last 'full' payment - Dec 2016
                    • Arrangement - payment plan agreed (£13 per month)
                    • Status - defaulted Apr 2017
                    • Account owner - PRA.
                    Jan 2018 (I need to confirm this) - debt passed on to PRA - payment plan continued as previously arranged
                    Jul 2018 - PRA made an F&F offer of of 40%
                    18th March 2020 CCA Request sent

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Barclaycard Freedom
                      • Type of account - Credit card
                      • Date commenced - July 2008
                      • Approx balance - £11,500
                      • Date last 'full' payment - Dec 2016
                      • Arrangement - payment plan agreed (£12 per month)
                      • Status - defaulted Apr 2017
                      • Account owner - PRA.
                      Jan 2018 (I need to confirm this) - debt passed on to PRA - payment plan continued as previously arranged
                      Jun 2018 - PRA made an F&F offer of of 40%
                      18th March 2020 CCA Request sent
                      Last edited by DeaconsRevenge; 18th March 2020, 21:07.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        MBNA Credit Card
                        • Type of account - Credit card
                        • Date commenced - September 2002
                        • Approx balance - £23,000
                        • Date last 'full' payment - Apr 2017
                        • Arrangement - payment plan agreed (£27 per month)
                        • Status - defaulted Sep 2017
                        • Account owner - PRA.
                        Dec 2017 (I need to confirm this) - debt passed on to PRA - payment plan continued as previously arranged
                        May 2018 - PRA made an F&F offer of of 47%
                        18th March 2020 CCA Request sent

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DeaconsRevenge View Post
                          Barclaycard Platinum
                          • Type of account - Credit card
                          • Date commenced - December 1989
                          • Approx balance - £12,100
                          • Date last 'full' payment - Dec 2016
                          • Arrangement - payment plan agreed (£13 per month)
                          • Status - defaulted Apr 2017
                          • Account owner - PRA.
                          Jan 2018 (I need to confirm this) - debt passed on to PRA - payment plan continued as previously arranged
                          Jul 2018 - PRA made an F&F offer of of 40%
                          18th March 2020 CCA Request sent

                          It's PRA who will have to prove that the debt was assigned to them and when it was assigned - not you

                          Di
                          Legal Disclaimer

                          I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specialises in consumer credit. If you need to contact me you can send a message by clicking on my username or by emailing me at di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk or by telephoning 0330 053 9340. Our initial advice is always free.

                          Any posts I make on the AAD Consumer Forum are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

                          Comment

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