DNW's UE Diary

[DNW]

Is that Welcome letter from Hoist from the same Hoist who was assigned the debt in 2017 or could it be a different Hoist as the result of an internal assignment?

2017 It went from Barclays to Hoist Portfolio Holding Limited (HPH Ltd).

It's currently assigned to Hoist Finance UK Holdings 1 Limited I think - that was on the 2018 letterhead, and that letter stated it was Hoist Portfolio Holding Limited "HPH" who had assigned the rights to Hoist Finance UK Holdings 1 Limited, and that Hoist Finance UK Ltd had been appointed to manage the account, but that Robinson Way would continue to service the account.

Today's letter was from Hoist Finance UK Ltd.

Who knew they liked to tie us up in knots as to ownership of accounts!

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Update

19/01/21 - Received from Hoist - Welcome to Hoist, let's agree a repayment plan . . . Considering the last time anything was paid toward this was nearly 9 years ago

What I like most in the history of this debt is your CCA Request to Barclaycard in 2011 was viewed as enforceable. You then sent another CCA Request to Hoist in 2017 and that was viewed as unenforceable

Debt purchasers don’t always automatically have access to documentation from the original creditor - I’m pleased to say.

Is that Welcome letter from Hoist from the same Hoist who was assigned the debt in 2017 or could it be a different Hoist as the result of an internal assignment?

Di

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Egg 2

Name - Egg 2
Type of account - Credit Card
Date commenced - Jan 07
Approx balance - £6000
Date last paid - Mar-11 
Arrangement/not paying - No Payment
Status - In Arrears 
Account owner - Lender

Key:
Them
Me
Other

Activity

1. 26/04/2011 Payment overdue
2. 09/05/2011 DD reminder and card stopped
3. 13/06/2011 Contact us to discuss letter
4. 24/06/2011 Contact us to discuss letter
5. 11/07/2011 Contact us to discuss letter
6. 24/07/2011 My letter - request interest freeze and no change in circumstances.
7. 29/07/2011 Letter from Capital Credit Agencies - contact Egg else we'll instruct local agent
8. 17/08/2011 CCA Request sent
9. 30/08/2011 CCA Received and uploaded for Niddy's perusal via secure section
10. 31/08/2011
11. 05/11/11 - Default Notice received. As you're continuing to make token payments, no further action to be taken at this time.
12. 01/04/12 - Ceased token payments.
13. 22/06/12 - Received from BC - Account details of where to make new payments to. (Filed - await further contact)
14. 05/02/14 - Received from Barclaycard - formal demand for payment and sorry we've been reporting inaccurate info to the CRA's.
15. 01/07/17 - Received from Barclaycard - we're transferring your account to Hoist Portfolio who have chosen Robinsonway to act for them. (Filed).
16. 14/08/17 - Received from Barclaycard - NOA to Hoist Portfolio. Robinson Way have been appointed to collect. (Filed)
17. 17/08/17 - Received from Hoist - NOA, Robinson Way have been appointed to collect. (Filed)
18. 17/08/17 - Received from Robinson - Please contact us to agree payment plan else we could refer your account to our solicitors to issue claim. (Filed)
19. 31/08/17 - Received from RW - We want to help you pay off your debt, please contact us. (Filed).
20. 15/09/17 - Received from RW - 25% off your balance if you contact us. (Filed).
21. 04/10/17 - Received from RW - Pre-Legal Assessment. If you do not contact us by 06/10/17 we will be forced to assess your account for litigation.
22. 06/10/17 - Sent CCA request
23. 14/10/17 - Received from RW - Account on hold while we deal with CCA Request
24. 25/11/17 - Received from RW - Not yet heard back from OC - Account on hold while we wait.
25. 11/01/18 - Received from RW - Not yet heard back from OC - Account on hold while we wait.
26. 27/01/18 - Received from RW - here's your CCA, unable to provide varied T&C. You have 30 days to complete financial statement (response expected by 23/02/18)
27. 31/01/18 - Niddy says unenforceable, wait til the 30 days have passed, let them chase the financial statement and then send missing PTs template
28. 21/02/18 - Received from RW - We'd like to agree an affordable payment plan with you, get in touch and we'll help you to find the right solution. (No mention of the financial statement they'd asked to be completed by 23/02).
29. 27/06/18 - Received from RW - it's important for you to get in touch and agree a payment plan (filed)
30. 28/07/18 - Received from RW - We won't ask you to pay more than you can afford
31. 05/08/18 - Received from RW - We'd like to offer a 27% discount for you to settle your account
32. 22/08/18 - Received from RW - pay just 75% of your balance if you pay within 30 days
33. 19/09/18 - Received from Hoist Finance - Hoist Portfolio Holding has assigned all rights to Hoist Finance UK Holdings. Robinson Way will continue to service your account.
34. 31/01/19 - Received from RW - Agree a repayment plan today
35. 04/03/19 - Received from RW - Pay just 60% of your balance
36. 13/09/19 - Received from RW - don't ignore us
37. 11/10/19 - Received from RW - upto 25% discount available
38. 25/01/20 - Received from RW - please contact us
39. 02/12/20 - Received from RW: Discount of 85% available
40. 19/01/21 - Received from Hoist - Welcome to Hoist, let's agree a repayment plan

Update

19/01/21 - Received from Hoist - Welcome to Hoist, let's agree a repayment plan


Considering the last time anything was paid toward this was nearly 9 years ago*, I think I'll file this letter for now - unless anyone suggests otherwise?



*I can't actually believe this has all been part of my life for nearly 10 years, I think a general '10 years later post' will be top of my to-do list soon

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I was very much expecting a claim for Christmas but it's not arrived as yet - although I'm still anticipating it on a daily basis.

Try not to think about it, knowing you can contact me direct if they do decide to issue legal proceedings.

Issuing a claim is not necessarily the same thing as winning a claim as PRA discovered went they took me to court and lost

Jo explains this here >

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGNMENT PROVED”


So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

Di

[DNW]

Have you heard anything more from PRA since their Letter of Claim?

Di

Nothing apart from a Statement of Account in early December. I was very much expecting a claim for Christmas but it's not arrived as yet - although I'm still anticipating it on a daily basis.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Barclay Loan

Name - Barclays
Type of account - Loan
Date commenced - July 2009
Approx balance - £15,000
Date last paid - Mar-11 
Arrangement/not paying - Token Payment
Status - Default 
Account owner - DCA (CDCS)

Key:
Them
Me
Other


Activity

1. 05/04/2011 DD Cancelled letter received
2. 11/05/2011 Missed payment letter received
3. 04/06/2011 Two missed payments letter received
4. 15/06/2011 Default notice received from Barlcays
5. 15/06/2011 Refused to accept £1/month offer, debt to be passed to Recovery Dept.
6. 05/07/2011 Arrears notice
7. 23/07/2011 CDCS letter - account has now transferred to them and all comms to be directed to CDCS
8. 01/08/2011 My letter - no change in circumstances, don't phone, don't visit sent to CDCS
9. 17/08/2011 CCA Request sent
10. UPDATE 03/09/11 CCA received and sent to Niddy
11. 03/09/11
12. 10/12/11 - Arrears Notice received
13. 11/10/12 - Arrears Notice received
14. 08/03/13 - Arrears Notice received
15. 01/07/13 - Statement received
16. 12/08/13 - Arrears Notice received
17. 09/01/14 - Arrears Notice received
18. 07/06/14 - Arrears Notice received
19. 01/07/14 - Annual statement received
20. 08/08/14 - Please contact us to arrange further/higher payment (filed)
21. 2014-2019 - Only statements & arrears notices received
22. 20/11/19 - Statement received
23. 22/11/19 - We're going to transfer your account to PRA
24. 07/12/19 - NOA - Loan account sold to PRA Group (UK) Limited
25. 07/12/19 - Welcome to PRA Group, carry on making agreed payments but to us now instead of Barclays
26. 05/02/20 - Sent SAR to Barclays
27. 05/02/20 - Stopped token payments
28. 27/02/20 - Received SAR documents
29. 23/09/20 - Received from PRA - 30 days to contact them else they'll consider my account for 'next stage'.
30. 24/10/20 - Received from PRA - Letter before claim

Have you heard anything more from PRA since their Letter of Claim?

Di

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Santander

Name - Santander
Type of account - Credit Card
Date commenced - Jan 2007
Approx balance - £1,510
Date last paid - Mar-11 
Arrangement/not paying - Not paying
Status - In Arrears (DN Rec'd) 
Account owner - Lender

Key:
Them
Me
Other

Activity

1. 18/04/11 Rec'd I&E, no supporting docs received so refuse to accept.
2. 19/04/11 Missed payment notice
3. 03/05/11 Missed payment notice
4. 10/05/11 Letter - do not use card due to arrears
5. 13/05/11 Arrears notice
6. 16/05/11 Account overdue letter
7. 30/05/11 Account overdue letter
8. 18/06/11 Account in arrears - do not ignore letter
9. 18/06/11 Letter - pls phone us urgently
10. 28/06/11 Default Notice to be issued in due course
11. 12/07/11 Notice of arrears
12. 14/07/11 Debt passed to Viking Collections - all correspondance to go to Viking in future
13. 24/07/11 My letter - request interest freeze and no change in circumstances - sent to Santander & Viking
14. 28/07/11 Viking - request payment in full to avoid further action
15. 28/07/11 Standard default notice received
16. 28/07/11 Accept £1/month for 6 months
17. 29/07/11 Confirming default notice served
18. 03/08/11 Santander acknowledge complaint re interest, and refunded charges from June and July
19. 17/08/11 CCA Request sent
20. 19/10/11 CCA received
21. 28/10/11 Niddy says
22. 07/11/11 Letter received - no token payment received, will add interest & charges if payment not made
23. 07/11/11 Resumed token payments (£1 per month)
24. 28/05/12 - Received statement
25. 28/11/12 - Received statement
26. 30/05/13 - Received statement
27. 27/11/13 - Received statement
28. 13/11/14 - Received statement
29. 13/11/14 - Received Notice of Assignment from Santander Cards Ltd to Santander UK plc
30. 29/05/14 - Received statement
31. 04/06/15 - Received statement
32. 30/11/15 - Received statement
33. 01/06/16 - Received statement
34. 01/12/16 - Received statement
35. 30/05/17 - Received statement
36. 26/05/18 - Received statement
37. 01/12/18 - Received statement
38. 13/12/18 - Received from Santander - Wescot will be managing your account, they will monitor payments
39. 31/05/19 - Received statement
40. 03/12/19 - Received statement
41. 12/11/20 - Received from Santander - we made a mistake with fees and interest, your balance has been reduced.

* Update *

12/11/20 - Received from Santander - we made a mistake with fees and interest, your balance has been reduced.

Thanks Santander, I'll file that letter and accept the reduction in the balance.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Update

24/10/20 - Received from PRA - Letter before claim

I've been corresponding a little with Di about this one, so will pop her an email

I've received your email and replied so we can correspond a little bit more now

Di

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Barclay Loan

Name - Barclays
Type of account - Loan
Date commenced - July 2009
Approx balance - £15,000
Date last paid - Mar-11 
Arrangement/not paying - Token Payment
Status - Default 
Account owner - DCA (CDCS)

Key:
Them
Me
Other


Activity

1. 05/04/2011 DD Cancelled letter received
2. 11/05/2011 Missed payment letter received
3. 04/06/2011 Two missed payments letter received
4. 15/06/2011 Default notice received from Barlcays
5. 15/06/2011 Refused to accept £1/month offer, debt to be passed to Recovery Dept.
6. 05/07/2011 Arrears notice
7. 23/07/2011 CDCS letter - account has now transferred to them and all comms to be directed to CDCS
8. 01/08/2011 My letter - no change in circumstances, don't phone, don't visit sent to CDCS
9. 17/08/2011 CCA Request sent
10. UPDATE 03/09/11 CCA received and sent to Niddy
11. 03/09/11
12. 10/12/11 - Arrears Notice received
13. 11/10/12 - Arrears Notice received
14. 08/03/13 - Arrears Notice received
15. 01/07/13 - Statement received
16. 12/08/13 - Arrears Notice received
17. 09/01/14 - Arrears Notice received
18. 07/06/14 - Arrears Notice received
19. 01/07/14 - Annual statement received
20. 08/08/14 - Please contact us to arrange further/higher payment (filed)
21. 2014-2019 - Only statements & arrears notices received
22. 20/11/19 - Statement received
23. 22/11/19 - We're going to transfer your account to PRA
24. 07/12/19 - NOA - Loan account sold to PRA Group (UK) Limited
25. 07/12/19 - Welcome to PRA Group, carry on making agreed payments but to us now instead of Barclays
26. 05/02/20 - Sent SAR to Barclays
27. 05/02/20 - Stopped token payments
28. 27/02/20 - Received SAR documents
29. 23/09/20 - Received from PRA - 30 days to contact them else they'll consider my account for 'next stage'.
30. 24/10/20 - Received from PRA - Letter before claim

Update

24/10/20 - Received from PRA - Letter before claim

I've been corresponding a little with Di about this one, so will pop her an email to update her, as well as my diary post.

[Grassy_K]

Great diary - you've been very well looked after. Next year will be your 10 year anniversary!

From someone who was in a similar position financially - well done and good luck. I've had many dealings with PRA, "firm but fair"...

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Barclay Loan

Name - Barclays
Type of account - Loan
Date commenced - July 2009
Approx balance - £15,000
Date last paid - Mar-11 
Arrangement/not paying - Token Payment
Status - Default 
Account owner - DCA (CDCS)

Key:
Them
Me
Other


Activity

1. 05/04/2011 DD Cancelled letter received
2. 11/05/2011 Missed payment letter received
3. 04/06/2011 Two missed payments letter received
4. 15/06/2011 Default notice received from Barlcays
5. 15/06/2011 Refused to accept £1/month offer, debt to be passed to Recovery Dept.
6. 05/07/2011 Arrears notice
7. 23/07/2011 CDCS letter - account has now transferred to them and all comms to be directed to CDCS
8. 01/08/2011 My letter - no change in circumstances, don't phone, don't visit sent to CDCS
9. 17/08/2011 CCA Request sent
10. UPDATE 03/09/11 CCA received and sent to Niddy
11. 03/09/11
12. 10/12/11 - Arrears Notice received
13. 11/10/12 - Arrears Notice received
14. 08/03/13 - Arrears Notice received
15. 01/07/13 - Statement received
16. 12/08/13 - Arrears Notice received
17. 09/01/14 - Arrears Notice received
18. 07/06/14 - Arrears Notice received
19. 01/07/14 - Annual statement received
20. 08/08/14 - Please contact us to arrange further/higher payment (filed)
21. 2014-2019 - Only statements & arrears notices received
22. 20/11/19 - Statement received
23. 22/11/19 - We're going to transfer your account to PRA
24. 07/12/19 - NOA - Loan account sold to PRA Group (UK) Limited
25. 07/12/19 - Welcome to PRA Group, carry on making agreed payments but to us now instead of Barclays
26. 05/02/20 - Sent SAR to Barclays
27. 05/02/20 - Stopped token payments
28. 27/02/20 - Received SAR documents

Update

23/09/20 - Received from PRA - 30 days to contact them else they'll consider my account for 'next stage'.


I've filed this for now as it contained words such as 'consider' and 'may', but sending Di a copy of the letter just in case they get a bit heavier.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Thanks as always for the reply Di

I'll cancel my standing order for the token payments made to Barclays, and send them (Barclays) a SAR and see what happens when PRA decide to start getting in touch.

That sounds like a plan

Di

[DNW]

... I assume that you've been paying this debt because the credit agreement was considered enforceable, but that's not the only thing which makes a debt enforceable in court.

Was the Default Notice compliant with s87(1)and was it issued/served by Mercers in June 2011?

Thanks as always for the reply Di

Correct, Barclays never actually agreed the token payments in writing, but they didn't really push for a review either, but because it was such a 'new' loan at the time and seemingly enforceable, it felt easier to pay £1 for the next 14,000 or so months than to add this to the battles we were having with other debts at that time.

I don't know if the DN was compliant, I've never had it checked as such, but it was issued by Barclays rather than Mercers.

I'm in no particular hurry to communicate with PRA group direct, so I'll cancel my standing order for the token payments made to Barclays, and send them (Barclays) a SAR and see what happens when PRA decide to start getting in touch.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

question about my Barclays loan account - I've been making only token £1 payments (via standing order) to this account and now that it's finally been sold on to PRA Group . . . . My intention has always been to offer a settlement at some point, but Barclays (amazingly) didn't hassle - so I didn't offer.

Just because Barclays didn't hassle you that doesn't mean PRA won't, since debt purchasers are not known for their patience

So perhaps this is a good moment to establish your current legal position which could have changed since 2011.

I assume that you've been paying this debt because the credit agreement was considered enforceable, but that's not the only thing which makes a debt enforceable in court.

Was the Default Notice compliant with s87(1)and was it issued/served by Mercers in June 2011?

Also debt purchasers don't necessarily have access to documents held by the original creditor once the debt has been assigned. Or in some case the original creditor is unwilling to co-operate if asked for them.

My suggestion is you send a SAR to Barclays to see what data/documents they have now, and see if there are notes of any interaction between them and PRA prior to the assignment noted in the Transaction Log.

Depending on what comes back from Barclays, it may make sense to send a new s77 CCA Request to PRA in case they can't comply. But don't do that just yet.

Di

[DNW]

Re: DNW's UE Diary

Barclay Loan

Name - Barclays
Type of account - Loan
Date commenced - July 2009
Approx balance - £15,000
Date last paid - Mar-11 
Arrangement/not paying - Token Payment
Status - Default 
Account owner - DCA (CDCS)

Key:
Them
Me
Other


Activity

1. 05/04/2011 DD Cancelled letter received
2. 11/05/2011 Missed payment letter received
3. 04/06/2011 Two missed payments letter received
4. 15/06/2011 Default notice received
5. 15/06/2011 Refused to accept £1/month offer, debt to be passed to Recovery Dept.
6. 05/07/2011 Arrears notice
7. 23/07/2011 CDCS letter - account has now transferred to them and all comms to be directed to CDCS
8. 01/08/2011 My letter - no change in circumstances, don't phone, don't visit sent to CDCS
9. 17/08/2011 CCA Request sent
10. UPDATE 03/09/11 CCA received and sent to Niddy
11. 03/09/11
12. 10/12/11 - Arrears Notice received
13. 11/10/12 - Arrears Notice received
14. 08/03/13 - Arrears Notice received
15. 01/07/13 - Statement received
16. 12/08/13 - Arrears Notice received
17. 09/01/14 - Arrears Notice received
18. 07/06/14 - Arrears Notice received
19. 01/07/14 - Annual statement received
20. 08/08/14 - Please contact us to arrange further/higher payment (filed)
21. 2014-2019 - Only arrears notices and statements received
22. 20/11/19 - Statement received
23. 07/12/19 - NOA - Loan account sold to PRA Group (UK) Limited
24. 07/12/19 - Welcome to PRA Group, carry on making agreed payments but to us now instead of Barclays

Hi all, just a quick question about my Barclays loan account - I've been making only token £1 payments (via standing order) to this account and now that it's finally been sold on to PRA Group, should I just set up a new SO with PRA's details rather than making any contact with them? My intention has always been to offer a settlement at some point, but Barclays (amazingly) didn't hassle - so I didn't offer. The fact that it's been sold makes my position more favourable when it does eventually come to settle, but I'm in no rush to do so.