Invisible Man's UE diary

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

Sorry to be pedantic but could you include the date (as well as the month) in your posts. Some decisions depend on the number of days which have passed since a letter was sent or received (e.g. 14 days CCA Request or 40 days SAR Request)

It's good to be tidy.

It also helps if/when you get a claim because the precise dates need to be included in any Defence or Witness Statement. Let's hope that will never be needed,

And to end on a cheerful note, it will also help you to calculate your Statute Barred date which is what we all aim for.

Di

Just wary of not giving away too much information to identify me, I'm aware anyone can read these threads. I'll add the dates now.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

Sorry to be pedantic but could you include the date (as well as the month) in your posts. Some decisions depend on the number of days which have passed since a letter was sent or received (e.g. 14 days CCA Request or 40 days SAR Request)

It's good to be tidy.

It also helps if/when you get a claim because the precise dates need to be included in any Defence or Witness Statement. Let's hope that will never be needed,

And to end on a cheerful note, it will also help you to calculate your Statute Barred date which is what we all aim for.

Di

[MisterK]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

Re the HBOS - completing an I/E form would be in their interest but not yours. Only a court can demand that you do that and you are nowhere near that stage. This is a 2002 commencement and much more likely to be UE than otherwise - meaning that with the help available here then court becomes very unlikely. That's my take from what I've learned from these guys & gals - but happy to be corrected as ever.

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

I would ignore as they have said that the account is on hold.

Thanks cymruambyth, I was thinking the same

[cymruambyth]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

Updated actions above. Should I ignore the request for the I&E form?

I would ignore as they have said that the account is on hold.

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

NORTHERN ROCK

Unsecured loan
Date commenced: 2006
Approx balance: £12,000
Date last paid: early 2017
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2011
Account owner: Cabot

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment

2009
April DMP started
2010
Oct Letter from Northern Rock stating loan now managed by NRAM
2011
Sept Sec 87 default notice from NRAM, even though the DMP has been up and running for over 2 years and no payments missed
Oct Letter from NRAM to say loan sold to Marlin
Oct NoA received from Marlin
2015
Feb Letter from Marlin advising they are now part of Cabot
2017
Apr Chase letter from Cabot ignored
May Chase letter from Cabot ignored
Junes77-79 request to Cabot

Update above

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

BARCLAYS

Unsecured loan
Date commenced: 2008
Balance approx: £20,000
Date last full payment: 2009
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2009
Account owner: PRA

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment

"Pre-approved" online loan given when I was a Barclays customer

2016
account assigned to PRA. Letter received from Barclays informing change of ownership
2017
January Stopped payments
May chase letter received offering discount Ignored
June sec.77-79 CCA request sent
June Letter from PRA stating account on hold Ignored
June SAR sent to Barclays

Update above

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

HBOS

Credit card
Date commenced: 2002
Balance approx: £4,000
Date last full payment: 2009
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2009
Account owner: PRA

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment


2011
?? account assigned to Activ Kapital No notice of assignment ever received
2014
November letter received saying Activ Kapital has changed name to PRA Group
2015
January letter received saying account assigned to PRA No notice of assignment received?
2017
January Stopped payments
May letter received demanding payment Ignored
June letter before claim received from PRA investigation & litigation dept. Letter demands response within x days or court proceedings will be issued Need to respond - shall I send the letter to Niddy?
June CCA & LBA request letters sent
June Letter from PRA in response to CCA request stating account on hold
June Letter from PRA asking me to complete and return income & expenditure form

Updated actions above. Should I ignore the request for the I&E form?

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

Hope you don't mind me poking my nose in on your thread Invisible, I'm just a few months ahead of you with this "journey" and with similar figures. Also like you I will also have the problem of whether or not to make a new address known in the not too distant future. Myself I think I will want to make my new address easily available on the basis that any sneaky CCJ obtained by posting documents to a previous address would then cause the creditor to be on the back foot when challenged. Assuming I found out about it of course - there is a website where you can check for CCJ's, although only after the event I think.

As I've learned from advice here, there seems little point in not giving current address, as it could prejudice a DJ against you in any proceedings (looks like you're avoiding the creditor), and as you say, result in a default judgement. The only reason I did it was following years of hassle from DCAs, it was just a relief to know they weren't going to ring/pitch up on your doorstep - not just for me but also family members, who are also affected by the debt in so many ways. With RM re-direction, my previous address simply became a correspondence address. I'm now making all creditors aware of my current address. All the best with your journey

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE Diary

I think I follow what you're saying

You've never sent a s.78 CCA Request to Barclays (or anyone else for that matter).

You sent a CPR Request to Mercers even though legal proceedings hadn't been issued (as Barclaycard subsequently pointed out to you).

It seems that Mercers passed your CPR Request to Barclays who replied saying (wrongly) "we've got your s.78 CCA Request" and sent you some random Ts & Cs but also said that they would be sending you the rest manana - but never did.

You then sent Barclays a SAR and got back some paperwork but no credit agreement was included.

So when the time is right send a s.78 CCA Request to Cabot.

Di

Thanks Di, yes, you've summarised it perfectly - better than I managed to . I'll send a s.78 as you suggest.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Re: Invisible Man's UE Diary

I received from Mercers a Sec 87 default, along with a demand letter threatening court action etc etc. I therefore replied with a request under the CPR for, amongst other things, a copy of the original executed agreement. I got no reply from Mercers, but did get two from Barclaycard both dated the same. One was a letter enclosing a copy of t&cs; the other was a letter referencing sec 78 of the CCA and my request for a copy of the agreement, in which they state they will send it under separate cover,and also tell me I'm not entitled under CPR to be provided any docs in advance of court action. I then 1. replied rebutting their claim about not providing docs under the CPR, and 2. sent them a SAR (can't remember why, but may have been advice from another forum). They responded with another set of t&cs, old statements etc, no agreement but a promise that "any other details not available will be sent on to you".

I think I follow what you're saying

You've never sent a s.78 CCA Request to Barclays (or anyone else for that matter).

You sent a CPR Request to Mercers even though legal proceedings hadn't been issued (as Barclaycard subsequently pointed out to you).

It seems that Mercers passed your CPR Request to Barclays who replied saying (wrongly) "we've got your s.78 CCA Request" and sent you some random Ts & Cs but also said that they would be sending you the rest manana - but never did.

You then sent Barclays a SAR and got back some paperwork but no credit agreement was included.

So when the time is right send a s.78 CCA Request to Cabot.

Di

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

How much was the loan when you took it out and how long was the term if it had run its natural length (5 years at a guess)? Sometimes the Default date is relative to that depending on when you missed contractual payments and when the account was terminated etc.

Was this Northern Rock loan part of their Together Mortgage product? Probably not, but I thought I should check.

Cabot will start to get pushy because of the size of the debt, so decide whether you want to wait or whether you'd rather send your CCA Request now to see if It's flawed. You can make your decision if they pass it to Mortimer Clark solicitors or outsource it to Restons or Shoosmiths etc.

Di

Original loan was £20k over 5 years. It wasn't part of a mortgage product, just a personal loan. Not sure about when best to send the CCA request, I'll ponder that one!
Thanks again, your advice is much appreciated

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE Diary

If you previously sent them a SAR was your CCA Request and their reply included in the response? Have you kept their reply letter or are you working from memory?

You've got a new SAR Request in the pipeline so maybe wait until you get that to check before sending a new CCA Request to Cabot. It should be showing in the Transaction Log even if your original letter (CCA Request) wasn't scanned and saved.

Credit agreements can be reconstituted from information held on the original creditor's database as long as it's 'honest and accurate' so don't get overly excited if the actual scanned copy doesn't exist.

And while you're getting everything sorted it may make sense to send a SAR to your DMP provider because sometimes creditors send statutory notices to them because they're acting as your agent.

Since you were in your DMP for 8 years some of those debts may have changed hands and the Notice of Assignment may have been sent to them (DMP). They're not supposed to do that but DJs can be biased against perceived "debt avoiders" so it's best not to give them any opportunity to argue the toss.

Di

Re your first point: I still have all the correspondence. What happened is I received from Mercers a Sec 87 default, along with a demand letter threatening court action etc etc. I therefore replied with a request under the CPR for, amongst other things, a copy of the original executed agreement. I got no reply from Mercers, but did get two from Barclaycard both dated the same. One was a letter enclosing a copy of t&cs; the other was a letter referencing sec 78 of the CCA and my request for a copy of the agreement, in which they state they will send it under separate cover,and also tell me I'm not entitled under CPR to be provided any docs in advance of court action. I then 1. replied rebutting their claim about not providing docs under the CPR, and 2. sent them a SAR (can't remember why, but may have been advice from another forum). They responded with another set of t&cs, old statements etc, no agreement but a promise that "any other details not available will be sent on to you". Hot on it's heels came another default notice from Mercers. That's about the last I heard from them.

Thanks for all the advice. I will send a SAR to the DMP - wouldn't have thought of that

[MisterK]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

Hello Di

I'm not wanting to burst in on Invisible Man's thread in any way so happy to go away or raise the query elsewhere if instructed etc but could I just ask you about a point you made earlier which is:

"Credit agreements can be reconstituted from information held on the original creditor's database as long as it's 'honest and accurate' so don't get overly excited if the actual scanned copy doesn't exist."

The question I have really is does this "honest & accurate" comment affect unenforceability as we know it (as a defence against a claim). So what I mean by that is, has something come about in a recent case for example which throws up a new difficulty for us all, or has nothing changed and it's just the usual situation that the creditor's database simply enables the creditor to meet the requirements of s.78 (which has always been the case).

I expect Niddy would repeat that without the signed agreement then how would they know that the T&C in a recon were the correct ones etc, so am just wondering if "honest & accurate" is a new potential threat of some kind.

Once again apologies if I'm breaking convention by raising a point within a member's thread in this way.

Hope you don't mind me poking my nose in on your thread Invisible, I'm just a few months ahead of you with this "journey" and with similar figures. Also like you I will also have the problem of whether or not to make a new address known in the not too distant future. Myself I think I will want to make my new address easily available on the basis that any sneaky CCJ obtained by posting documents to a previous address would then cause the creditor to be on the back foot when challenged. Assuming I found out about it of course - there is a website where you can check for CCJ's, although only after the event I think.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

NORTHERN ROCK

Unsecured loan
Date commenced: 2006
Approx balance: £12,000
Date last paid: early 2017
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2011
Account owner: Cabot

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment

2009
April DMP started
2010
Oct Letter from Northern Rock stating loan now managed by NRAM
2011
Sept Sec 87 default notice from NRAM, even though the DMP has been up and running for over 2 years and no payments missed
Oct Letter from NRAM to say loan sold to Marlin
Oct NoA received from Marlin
2015
Feb Letter from Marlin advising they are now part of Cabot
2017
Apr Chase letter from Cabot ignored
May Chase letter from Cabot ignored

How much was the loan when you took it out and how long was the term if it had run its natural length (5 years at a guess)? Sometimes the Default date is relative to that depending on when you missed contractual payments and when the account was terminated etc.

Was this Northern Rock loan part of their Together Mortgage product? Probably not, but I thought I should check.

Cabot will start to get pushy because of the size of the debt, so decide whether you want to wait or whether you'd rather send your CCA Request now to see if It's flawed. You can make your decision if they pass it to Mortimer Clark solicitors or outsource it to Restons or Shoosmiths etc.

Di