Invisible Man's UE diary

[Still Waving]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

The letter from Cabot informing me of assignment in 2010, stated that the account had been bought by "Cabot Financial Group". The contact address on that letter and all letters from Cabot since then, states "Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited". The photocopied letter of assignment from Sainsburys (not sure if it's legit - would it help if I post it?) which Cabot enclosed with the 2010 letter, states "the assignment....is entered into by Sainsbury's Bank and Cabot Financial (UK)". However, the letter goes on to say that account enquiries should be directed to "Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited".

I will send the requests as you suggest.

In one of the boxes on the right hand side of Cabot's letters (half way down) it usually states who the Current Creditor is.

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

The next logical step would be to send Idem Servicing a s 77-79 CCA Request but since they're not giving you a hard time there's no real rush (except curiosity).

Since "Idem Servicing" doesn't own debts (they manage them) you may need to look back through your files to establish who is the actual owner. Paragon comes in different shapes and sizes all under the Paragon Group banner which includes Idem.

A Notice of Assignment should make things clear - if one was ever sent to you, that is.

Di

Sorry I wasn't very clear in the diary header, I will amend the entry to clarify. The DMP has the account owner down as "Paragon Personal Finance Ltd" since early 2015. However, I've never received any NoA. Just that the letters stopped from Tesco and started from Idem. The Idem letters never make any reference whatsoever to Paragon.

I will hang fire on the CCA request for now, and let sleeping dogs lie, for a little bit longer. Would I still send the CCA to Idem if they are only the dca?

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

You probably confused Moorcroft by sending them a CPR Request when legal proceedings hadn't been issued in January 2010.

Maybe see that as a dress rehearsal

Anyway as a result they didn't send you any credit agreement which might suggest there isn't one held on file for you (that may not stop then reconstituting one if push comes to shove).

Send a s 77-79 CCA Request to Arrow to see what they come up with.

Their response letter is likely to say they "don't envisage themselves as the creditor" and they'll send you back your £1 postal order. Nevertheless they'll probably be a sentence in the letter which says they'll contact the OC for documents and (possibly) the account will be on hold for now.

You will have sent Arrow a valid CCA request, and they will have sent you a helpful answer (their letter acknowledges your request).

No need to send a SAR because your SAR to Sainsbury's in relation to your loan in post # 80 will cover both since they have to send you absolutely everything held on file about you - a SAR is not account specific.

Di

Thanks DI, I will send off the CCA request as you suggest. Why would Arrow not see themselves as the creditor when they own the account?

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

Do the letters make clear who actually owns it? Does it say Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd or a variation on that such as Cabot Financial (Europe) or (Marlin) Ltd? It matters.Di

The letter from Cabot informing me of assignment in 2010, stated that the account had been bought by "Cabot Financial Group". The contact address on that letter and all letters from Cabot since then, states "Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited". The photocopied letter of assignment from Sainsburys (not sure if it's legit - would it help if I post it?) which Cabot enclosed with the 2010 letter, states "the assignment....is entered into by Sainsbury's Bank and Cabot Financial (UK)". However, the letter goes on to say that account enquiries should be directed to "Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited".

I will send the requests as you suggest.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

TESCO PERSONAL FINANCE (RBS)

Credit card
Date commenced: unsure, 2007
Approx balance: £6000
Date last full payment: 2008
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2009
Account owner: Idem Servicing (Paragon Finance)

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment

2009
April DMP started
May S87 default notice served
June Account termination letter from Tesco
2017
Jan Stop DMP payments
May 10th Chase letter from Idem. ignored
June 15th Chase letter from Idem. Ignored


I have never sent a SAR or CCA request.

The next logical step would be to send Idem Servicing a s 77-79 CCA Request but since they're not giving you a hard time there's no real rush (except curiosity).

Since "Idem Servicing" doesn't own debts (they manage them) you may need to look back through your files to establish who is the actual owner. Paragon comes in different shapes and sizes all under the Paragon Group banner which includes Idem.

A Notice of Assignment should make things clear - if one was ever sent to you, that is.

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

SAINSBURYS BANK 1

Credit card
Date commenced: 2008
Approx balance: £3000
Date last full payment: 2009
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2009
Account owner: Arrow Global
DCA: Moorcroft

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment

2009
April DMP started
Aug S87 default notice served
Oct 31st Notice of intended litigation from Moorcroft
2010
Jan 7th Send letter to Moorcroft requesting docs under CPR
Jan 22nd Moorcroft reply stating they are in the process of obtaining a copy of the consumer credit agreement.
Feb 15th Moorcroft letter enclosing "requested documentation". All it contains is copy statements, but no agreement. The agreement was never supplied.
2017
Jan Stop DMP payments
Mar 17th Moorcroft send settlement offer. ignored
June 15th Letter from Moorcroft stating they are trying to contact me. Ignored
June 16th Receive statement of account from - wait for it - Arrow Global, also informing me that the account was assigned to them in April 2013, and that Moorcroft are managing the account on their behalf.
Nice of them to tell me the account was assigned 4 years ago, as I've never previously received any notice of this

To clarify, I have never sent a SAR or CCA request.

You probably confused Moorcroft by sending them a CPR Request when legal proceedings hadn't been issued in January 2010.

Maybe see that as a dress rehearsal

Anyway as a result they didn't send you any credit agreement which might suggest there isn't one held on file for you (that may not stop then reconstituting one if push comes to shove).

Send a s 77-79 CCA Request to Arrow to see what they come up with.

Their response letter is likely to say they "don't envisage themselves as the creditor" and they'll send you back your £1 postal order. Nevertheless they'll probably be a sentence in the letter which says they'll contact the OC for documents and (possibly) the account will be on hold for now.

You will have sent Arrow a valid CCA request, and they will have sent you a helpful answer (their letter acknowledges your request).

No need to send a SAR because your SAR to Sainsbury's in relation to your loan in post # 80 will cover both since they have to send you absolutely everything held on file about you - a SAR is not account specific.

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

SAINSBURYS BANK 2

Loan
Date commenced: 2008
Approx balance: £22,000
Date last full payment: 2009
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2009
Account owner: Cabot

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment

2009
April DMP started
2010
Jun 8th Receive assignment letter from Cabot, enclosing photocopy of notice of assignment from Sainsburys (which I never received directly)
Jun 23rd I reply stating I do not accept the p'copy and need the original NoA.
July 14th One-line letter from Sainsburys saying the account is sold to Cabot. I have never received a NoA.
July 21st Letter from Cabot informing me that Sainsburys have confirmed they have sent a NoA. But they haven't....
Aug Letter from Cabot offering 85% discount for final settlement. Gives some indication of how little they paid to 'own' this debt
2017
Jan Stop DMP payments
Apr 14th Chase letter from Cabot. Ignored
Apr 29th Chase letter from Cabot. Ignored
May 31st "Talk to us" letter from Cabot. Ignored

To date I have never sent a SAR or CCA request.

This account was opened in 2008 but it may well have assignment issues

Do the letters make clear who actually owns it? Does it say Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd or a variation on that such as Cabot Financial (Europe) or (Marlin) Ltd? It matters.

Since it's £22k you might as well send Cabot the s 77-79 CCA Request now so you know what's out there.

Ditto the SAR to Sainsbury's so you'll know if any documents you receive from Cabot are 'accurate'.

Di

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

SAINSBURYS BANK 2

Unsecured Loan
Date commenced: 2008
Approx balance: £22,000
Date last full payment: 2009
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2009
Account owner: Cabot

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment

2009

April DMP started

2010

Jun 8th Receive assignment letter from Cabot, enclosing photocopy of notice of assignment from Sainsburys (which I never received directly)

Jun 23rd I reply stating I do not accept the p'copy and need the original NoA.

July 14th One-line letter from Sainsburys saying the account is sold to Cabot. I have never received a NoA.

July 21st Letter from Cabot informing me that Sainsburys have confirmed they have sent a NoA. But they haven't....

Aug Letter from Cabot offering 85% discount for final settlement. Gives some indication of how little they paid to 'own' this debt

2017

Jan Stop DMP payments

Apr 14th Chase letter from Cabot. Ignored

Apr 29th Chase letter from Cabot. Ignored

May 31st "Talk to us" letter from Cabot. Ignored

To date I have never sent a SAR or CCA request.

June 22nd SAR sent to Sainsburys

June 22nd s.77-79 CCA sent to Cabot

June 22nd chase letter from Cabot. Ignored

July 12th Letter from Cabot acknowledging CCA request stating they cannot currently comply but have requested the relevant docs, and hope to comply within 40 days, after which they will write to me if not. They acknowledge the account is "temporarily unenforceable". Strangely they sent 3 identical copies of the letter on the same day, all dated the same and sent to the same address.

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

SAINSBURYS BANK 1

Credit card
Date commenced: 2008
Approx balance: £3000
Date last full payment: 2009
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2009
Account owner: Arrow Global
DCA: Moorcroft

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment

2009
April DMP started
Aug S87 default notice served
Oct 31st Notice of intended litigation from Moorcroft
2010
Jan 7th Send letter to Moorcroft requesting docs under CPR
Jan 22nd Moorcroft reply stating they are in the process of obtaining a copy of the consumer credit agreement.
Feb 15th Moorcroft letter enclosing "requested documentation". All it contains is copy statements, but no agreement. The agreement was never supplied.
2017
Jan Stop DMP payments
Mar 17th Moorcroft send settlement offer. ignored
June 15th Letter from Moorcroft stating they are trying to contact me. Ignored
June 16th Receive statement of account from - wait for it - Arrow Global, also informing me that the account was assigned to them in April 2013, and that Moorcroft are managing the account on their behalf. Nice of them to tell me the account was assigned 4 years ago, as I've never previously received any notice of this I have never sent a SAR or CCA request.
June 22nd s.77-79 CCA request sent to Arrow Global
June 22nd SAR sent to Sainsburys
June 30th Letter from Sainsburys re the SAR, asking me to sign on the dotted line (literally) and return to them, so they can "complete their security checks". Methinks I'm not giving them my signature (SAR letter was typed signature). Can they refuse to comply without it?
July 7th Letter from Arrow Global stating they do not accept they "are the creditor as envisaged by the above statute", but they will assist in obtaining the requested docs. Collection activity suspended pending provision of docs etc.
August 2017 Letter from Arrow saying they're still waiting for docs from OC
September 2017 Letter from Arrow saying they're still waiting

2018

October Letter from Arrow responding to CCA request, enclosing copy agreement.

2019

January Letter from Arrow saying account transferred to Drydens
January Chase letter from Drydens. Ignored.

February LBC received from Drydens. Am sending agreement to Niddy for checking, before responding to LBC

February Niddy says

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

TESCO PERSONAL FINANCE (RBS)

Credit card
Date commenced: unsure, 2007
Approx balance: £6000
Date last full payment: 2008
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2009
Account owner: Paragon Personal Finance Ltd
DCA: Idem Servicing

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment

2009
April DMP started
May S87 default notice served
June Account termination letter from Tesco
2017
Jan Stop DMP payments
May 10th Chase letter from Idem. ignored
June 15th Chase letter from Idem. Ignored

No NoA ever received

I have never sent a SAR or CCA request.

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

CAPITAL ONE

Credit card
Date commenced: unsure, early 2000s
Approx balance: £3,500
Date last full payment: 2009
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2009
Account owner: Capital One
DCA: Apex

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment

2008

Apr? receive new card after change of address. On reverse of letter is one-side credit card agreement.

2009

April DMP started

Oct 19th S87 default notice served

2017

Jan Stop DMP payments

Mar 28th Chase letter recvd from Cap Oneignored

Apr 4th Letter from Cap One advising that Apex acting on their behalf Ignored

May 6th "welcome to Apex" letter from Apex. Ignored

June 1st Chase letter from Apex. Ignored

June 15th Chase letter from Apex. Ignored

Should I send the agreement recvd in 2008 to Niddy, or send s.78 request to Cap One / Apex?

July 7th Letter from Capital One asking me to contact them directly to update my address. I will respond in the next few days

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

Is the "original agreement" which you've sent to Niddy from your own files since you've not yet sent a CCA Request yet, or was it from a previous SAR to RBS?

Not all lenders scanned the originals in the olden days so even if you have your copy from then (2005) it may not be found 12 years later especially if sought by a debt purchaser.

At the moment your account is with the OC using Wescott to chase you. They typically give up when you send a CCA Request and then the OC may well sell on the account.

There's nothing you need to do at the moment.

Di

I've never made a SAR to RBS. The "original agreement" is the one I just happen to have on file. There is no other documentation with it so I'm assuming it is the original. It appears to have a date of 2005 on it. I then have on file a second 'agreement' received a year later which is just one page on the reverse of a letter they sent me with a new credit card attached. The 2 documents are very very different. I've sent both to Niddy.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

MINT / RBS

Credit card
Date commenced: 2005
Approx balance: £10,000
Date last full payment: 2009
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2009
Account owner: RBS
DCA: Wescott

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment

2009
April DMP started
May S87 default notice served
June 'Account terminated' letter from Mint
2016
July Letter from RBS that Wescott are now managing account
2017
May 6th Chase letter recvd from Wescott ignored
June 19th Original 'agreement' sent to Niddy

Is the "original agreement" which you've sent to Niddy from your own files since you've not yet sent a CCA Request yet, or was it from a previous SAR to RBS?

Not all lenders scanned the originals in the olden days so even if you have your copy from then (2005) it may not be found 12 years later especially if sought by a debt purchaser.

At the moment your account is with the OC using Wescott to chase you. They typically give up when you send a CCA Request and then the OC may well sell on the account.

There's nothing you need to do at the moment.

Di

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

MINT / RBS

Credit card
Date commenced: 2005
Approx balance: £10,000
Date last full payment: 2009
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2009
Account owner: RBS
DCA: Wescott

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment

2009
April DMP started
May S87 default notice served
June 'Account terminated' letter from Mint
2016
July Letter from RBS that Wescott are now managing account
2017
May 6th Chase letter recvd from Wescott ignored
June 19th Original 'agreement' sent to Niddy
June 26th Niddy says the original has no signed agreement and no accurate terms, so is

[InvisibleMan]

Re: Invisible Man's UE diary

HALIFAX (BANK of SCOTLAND)

Credit card
Date commenced: 2002
Balance approx: £4,000
Date last full payment: 2009
Currently not paying
Status in arrears, defaulted 2009
Account owner: PRA

Key:
Red text = creditor action
blue text = my action
green text = comment


2009
Sept S.87 default notice served by Halifax
2010
Feb 1st SAR sent to Halifax
Feb 19th Reply from Halifax. Includes Recon copy of 'agreement', which appears to be just T&Cs (See my comment at bottom of post). State they will send original agreement under separate cover. Warning about not using the services of a claims management company!
Mar 1st Send letter to Halifax pointing out I made a subject access request, not S.78, therefore I want a copy of the original agreement. They did not respond to this letter
Mar 6th Letter from Halifax admitting they are unable to provide a copy of the original agreement
2013
July 8th Letter from Halifax stating account assigned to Activ Kapital
July 8th Letter from Aktiv Kapital stating they have purchased account from LLoyds(!?). Since then it has always been referred to as a Lloyds account
2014
Nov letter received saying Activ Kapital has changed name to PRA Group
2015
Jan letter received saying account assigned to PRA No notice of assignment received
2017
Jan Stopped payments
May letter received demanding payment Ignored
June letter before claim received from PRA investigation & litigation dept. Letter demands response within x days or court proceedings will be issued
June 6th S.77-79 & LBA request letters sent to PRA
June 14th Letter recvd from PRA in response to CCA request stating account on hold whilst they obtain requested information.
June16th Letter recvd from PRA asking me to complete and return income & expenditure. Ignored
June 18th Agreement sent to to Niddy

Apart from the recon 'agreement' Halifax sent me above in response to SAR, I also have what I believe may be an original, similar, document when opening the account. However, they have very different content.

Updated