bammers UE diary

[PlanB]

Re: bammers UE diary

Well I know what the mysterious letter was about now - today received a letter from Bank of Scotland / DrydensFairfax regarding a mortgage shortfall following repossession. The property was sold in August 2010 so well within 6 years and the apparent shortfall is just over £25k

I always thought there might have been a shortfall but had never received any requests/demands to repay it so assumed it had been written off.... Not sure how to approach this one as assume it will not be covered by CCA like the other ones - can anyone point me in the right direction or offer any tips/steers?

Don't do anything until I've had a chance to ask you some questions. Mortgage shortfalls are very different from regular debts. So much depends on how the repossession ended.

Definitely don't acknowledge that letter yet.

You say you've only had a tracing letter so far (I can't find that post you've quoted on your diary ).

You've not been successfully traced yet.

Let's keep it that way

Plan B x

[bammers]

Re: bammers UE diary

Don't do anything until I've had a chance to ask you some questions. Mortgage shortfalls are very different from regular debts. So much depends on how the repossession ended.

Definitely don't acknowledge that letter yet.

You say you've only had a tracing letter so far (I can't find that post you've quoted on your diary ).

You've not been successfully traced yet.

Let's keep it that way

Plan B x

Thanks Plan B - the tracing/enquiry letter from Drydens was dated the 6 August and literally only had my name and a strange reference number that I didn't recognise - absolutely no details of what debt/creditor, etc. other than it was 'regarding a personal business matter' - I didn't add it to my diary as didn't know what it related to.

The letter received today dated 16 August gives the impression it is from Bank of Scotland and states that my account had been transferred to Drydensfairfax and quotes the strange reference number as Drydens account reference. On closer inspection though I am 99.9% certain that both letters have been issued by the same person/come from the same place as the paper, font and QR / print codes on both letters are basically identical (makes me think both of them have actually come from Drydens)

Happy to answer any questions as far as I can and won't do anything / acknowledge until I hear otherwise!

[PlanB]

Re: bammers UE diary

Was this a voluntary repossession (you handed the keys back)?

Do you still have a copy of the court order?

Plan B x

[bammers]

Re: bammers UE diary

Was this a voluntary repossession (you handed the keys back)?

Do you still have a copy of the court order?

Plan B x

It was supposed to be voluntary but despite sending the form back to the Halifax and saying the keys were with the estate agent I think it was treated as an official repossession as I wasn't around to do it in person (I had moved out of the property many months before and was out of the country at the time).
I've gone through my files and have a copy of the court order though - what would you like to know?

[PlanB]

Re: bammers UE diary

It was supposed to be voluntary but despite sending the form back to the Halifax and saying the keys were with the estate agent I think it was treated as an official repossession as I wasn't around to do it in person.

I've gone through my files and have a copy of the court order though - what would you like to know?

May I see a copy of the Order by email. The wording may/may not be helpful.

They can only chase for what the court Order says they can chase. Some lenders don't ask the court specifically for mortgage arrears so while they may be entitled to possession of the property (ownership) they may not always be entitled to enforce collection of the arrears via that court order so they would have to initiate a new claim relying on the Ts & Cs of your loan.

You've confirmed it was a voluntary repossession but they've still got a duty to get the best price. So what was the timescale from handing back the keys to selling the property, and was it sold through the agent or sold at auction for a knockdown price?

You say you signed a form to the Halifax. This may mean you signed to say you'd pay any shortfall. Do you have a copy of what you signed?

Here's how voluntary repossessions work:

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad..._back_the_keys

Under the Council of Mortgage Lender's Code of Practice the lender can only chase you for the shortfall for 6 years so although the debt doesn't become SB the lender is still limited in what they can do about it. Ideally you would stay under the radar until next August but we need more information before we can help you to make up your mind what to do or what not to do.

At the moment they don't know for sure they're writing to you at the correct address. However it's with solicitors and this is over £25k so you need to tread carefully.

Was this a joint mortgage?

Plan B x

[bammers]

Re: bammers UE diary

Thanks Plan B - really appreciate the help. Answers to the questions below:

May I see a copy of the Order by email. The wording may/may not be helpful.

Of course, will scan / send a pic over shortly

So what was the timescale from handing back the keys to selling the property, and was it sold through the agent or sold at auction for a knockdown price?

I think it was about 6 months but not entirely sure - the advice I received afterwards states that it was sold by "private treaty"

You say you signed a form to the Halifax. This may mean you signed to say you'd pay any shortfall. Do you have a copy of what you signed?

I don't I'm afraid but I don't think it was accepted as had voicemails left on my phone saying I would need to go into a branch to do it (but I never did).

Was this a joint mortgage?

No - sole mortgage in my name.

[PlanB]

Re: bammers UE diary

I think it was about 6 months but not entirely sure - the advice I received afterwards states that it was sold by "private treaty"

. . . . don't think it was accepted as had voicemails left on my phone saying I would need to go into a branch to do it (but I never did).

Thanks for those helpful answers and thanks for sending the court Order.

The date of the Order is 15th December 2009 so that means they have until 15th December 2015 to enforce it or take further action. That's less than four months' away so staying under the radar may be the way forward depending on what the Drydens solicitors' letter said. Did it threaten anything?

If you didn't go into the branch to sign the Halifax BOS letter then they shouldn't take action based on that oversight of theirs.

The Order is for a defined sum of £124k and there's no mention of any further interest to be added. How much was the property sold for?

Have you ever been given a breakdown of the outstanding balance?

Is Drydens' client BOS or is it a third party such as an insurance company? Some mortgages are sold with a MIG (mortgage indemnity guarantee) so when this is the case the insurer pays the lender the shortfall and then the insurer chases the ex-borrower for it.

I'm sorry to see the bank repossessed your home a week before Christmas. That nastiness alone would make me feel less inclined to co-operate ever after


Plan B x

[bammers]

Re: bammers UE diary

Thanks Plan B - appreciate your help as always Answers below - along the lines you mentioned I was thinking about writing to them to ask them for a breakdown / itemised statement of the amount of claim (without admitting liability for the debt) but will await your advice/steer first!

The date of the Order is 15th December 2009 so that means they have until 15th December 2015 to enforce it or take further action. That's less than four months' away so staying under the radar may be the way forward depending on what the Drydens solicitors' letter said. Did it threaten anything?

That might not be too bad - I wasn't sure if the six years started from the date the property was sold (i.e. end of July 10) - December doesn't seem too far away!

Nothing specific in the letter that was that threatening it asks me to contact them within 14 days of the letter and if they do not hear from me then they will have "no choice but to progress with further collections activity and would use this letter as evidence that we have made every effort to help you address this debt in a fair and affordable way"

The Order is for a defined sum of £124k and there's no mention of any further interest to be added. How much was the property sold for?
Have you ever been given a breakdown of the outstanding balance?

The property was apparently sold for £108500 (I paid £120,000 for it in Dec 2005 and spent about £15,000 on the kitchen and garden so a little disappointed but the market was tough in 2009). Never had a breakdown / statement or anything which shows how they arrived at the £25k figure that is now being claimed hence I wondered if it was worth asking for one to buy some time and to see if there is anything I can challenge.

Is Drydens' client BOS or is it a third party such as an insurance company? Some mortgages are sold with a MIG (mortgage indemnity guarantee) so when this is the case the insurer pays the lender the shortfall and then the insurer chases the ex-borrower for it

No mention of any third party or insurance company - everything on drydens letters refers to Bank of Scotland Plc (halifax Division)

[nanna58]

Re: bammers UE diary

Good luck hammers x

[bammers]

Re: bammers UE diary

... I was thinking about writing to them to ask them for a breakdown / itemised statement of the amount of claim (without admitting liability for the debt) but will await your advice/steer first...

Hi PlanB and all, phone calls from Drydens started today (would love to know how these guys got my number as I've never given it out to anyone and I'm ex-directory).
Anyway - refused to talk to them and have blocked the number now for a bit of peace and quiet... In the meantime I wondered if it is worth making a SAR to Halifax to see what they have on file and to get a feel for how the amount claimed has been arrived it?
Don't want to rock the boat unnecessarily but feeling a little exposed on this one as I have very little information about it...

[alland]

Re: bammers UE diary

Hi bammers, just hang in there before sending anything, I'm sure niddy will be along as soon as he gets a minute and suggests your next move

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: bammers UE diary

I'm not so sure this is SB this year. If it's a mortgage shortfall then the lender can chase it for 12 years.

The Limitation Act 1980 sets out the rules on how long a creditor (who you owe money to) has to take certain action against you to recover a debt. If, by law, your creditor has run out of time the debt is ‘statute-barred’. There has been some confusion in the past about mortgage shortfalls and the Limitation Act. However, the Court of Appeal has now decided that the following limitation periods apply to mortgage shortfall debts.

If you owe mortgage capital
Mortgage capital is the money you originally borrowed. For this part of a mortgage shortfall debt, the lender has 12 years to use court action to make you pay. This is under section 20 (1) of the Limitation Act.

If you owe interest
Mortgage interest is the interest you were charged to borrow the money. Your lender may also charge interest after your home is sold. For this part of a mortgage shortfall debt, the lender has six years to use court action to make you pay. This is under section 20 (5) of the Limitation Act.

Source - https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/...s/Default.aspx

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: bammers UE diary

Hi PlanB and all, phone calls from Drydens started today (would love to know how these guys got my number as I've never given it out to anyone and I'm ex-directory).
Anyway - refused to talk to them and have blocked the number now for a bit of peace and quiet... In the meantime I wondered if it is worth making a SAR to Halifax to see what they have on file and to get a feel for how the amount claimed has been arrived it?
Don't want to rock the boat unnecessarily but feeling a little exposed on this one as I have very little information about it...

Do you have any current assets, ie a new home?

I'd not send a SAR yet - you're kinda telling them where you are in doing so.

[mike'y]

Re: bammers UE diary

Hi Bammers, People tend to give their phone numbers to anybody/firm/business that asks for it legitimately. The DCA's, banks and credit agencies share the data so it's likely you gave it out thinking it would be safe? Just a thought.

[bammers]

Re: bammers UE diary

Do you have any current assets, ie a new home?

I'd not send a SAR yet - you're kinda telling them where you are in doing so.

Thanks Niddy - no assets of any value and currently renting privately.... but was thinking of trying to get a mortgage next year (credit file should look lovely and clean by then).

I will hold off the SAR for now but I'm fairly sure that Halifax / BoS / Lloyds already know where I am - they / their DCAs have been sending me mail about other CC's / Loans I had with them for the last 3 years or so (although I've never acknowledged anything they have ever sent)