Grassy_K's Unenforceability Diary

[Grassy_K]

Co-Op Platinum Card




Date commenced: Approx. 2004

Approx Balance £3500

Date last paid: June 2020 token £1 (date corrected)

Defaulted: 2012

Status:

Account owner: Co-Op

30/06 - CCA request sent to Co-Op
17/07 - Letter received from Co-Op. No CCA for you, son... "We first require a wet signature in order to verify your identity". They kindly enclose a stamped addressed envelope for this purpose.
18/08 - Bad copy of signed application form received (ie hard to read) but can't see any terms
19/08 - Uploaded docs to AAD for enforceability checking
20/08 - Niddy says - missing prescribed terms letter sent
16/09 - Reply from Co-Op : "Please find a larger copy of your agreement (blown up to A4 size but still barely legible and missing prescribed terms) - we note your comments regarding the previous copy but this is the best we are able to produce from our archives"
4/11 - Letter from Co-Op - threats re further action/legal action (not a LBA)
13/11 - Popped off a reply along the lines of: account in dispute, please refer to previous letter.
24/11 - Co-Op - we've received your complaint and are dealing with it
23/12 - Co-Op - sorry we haven't resolved your complaint yet, we're still dealing with it
15/1/15 - Asset Link Capital c/o Link Financial Outsourcing - Co-Op have sold us your debt, pay up!
17/1/15 - SWID/complaint sent to Asset Link
23/1/15 - Complaint response from Co-Op. You had the card, and used it, you owe. And here's the missing terms. You're now with Asset Link so speak to them if you have any more queries. So my SWID has crossed over in the post with Co-Op's response and possible rectification of UE. I'll have to scan and upload to Niddy to take a look at them, see if this is now EN and then work out my next course of action.
7/10/15 - Bugger. Bloody Link Financial again. They no longer consider this account to be in dispute and are seeking payment. 1 month to fill in an I&E form. No threats.
29/3/16 - "Ignoring this debt will not make it go away - you owe us, now pay up" letter from Link. I feel things are going to escalate from this point. I'll do what I said I was going to do in 2015 and get the docs uploaded later this week for advice. I'll feel safer if I have all my ducks in a row in advance, so to speak.
4/4/16 - Uploaded CCA docs for Niddy to check
6/4/16 = Niddy says still . I will sit tight until the next threat arrives and respond accordingly at that point.
30/4/16 - The monthly missive from Link has arrived. They note that although they purchased the debt on xx date they have yet to receive any proposals for payment and helpfully suggest paying it off in installments over the next 10 years. They enclose a direct mandate for my convenience. IGNORED.
28/5/16 - Link - "We have not written to you for some time because we had to locate your address. Please telephone us to confirm your intentions regarding the outstanding balance..."
02/02/21 - Email received from Link - please contact us now. Ignoring.


29/04/21 - Letter from Link / Asset Link Capital No.5 - you need to contact us now and agree a payment arrangement. Filed but keeping a close eye on this one.

[PlanB]

Thanks, Di.

You’re welcome

It’s all about managing the situation while at the same time keeping under the radar if appropriate.

Di

[Grassy_K]

Meanwhile don’t draw attention to yourself by engaging in correspondence, but post on your thread each time there’s a new development.

Di

Sounds good to me. I'm quite skilled at not engaging. Thanks, Di.

[PlanB]

Hello Di,

This is what Niddy had to say about the Mint CCA:


"Looks good to me sadly mate.....

Well that doesn’t necessarily mean that Cabot will be able to produce the same credit agreement documents as Mint produced in 2014 (i.e. nearly seven years ago) because they may not have agreed access to your original account information.

I wouldn’t send a new CCA Request at this moment in time, but it’s something you could do if Cabot start to get threatening in future. Cross that bridge if/when you get to it.

Meanwhile don’t draw attention to yourself by engaging in correspondence, but post on your thread each time there’s a new development.

Di

[Grassy_K]

Hello

May I just clarify some things to see if that helps your thought process.

You sent a CCA Request to Mint in 2014. They sent you 2 sets of Ts & Cs in response. This account was opened in 2004 so it's possible a signed credit agreement would be needed.

You thought they (the Ts & Cs) looked possibly enforceable but you've not had an opinion from Niddy or anyone else (unless I've misunderstood your post).

You continued to pay Mint and then Cabot until last year i.e. 2020.

I've got more to say but I thought it best to establish the facts first.

Di

Hello Di,

Sorry, my diary keeping hasn't been very good on this one. I never updated with Niddy's response. will try and amend my post.

This is what Niddy had to say about the Mint CCA:


"Looks good to me sadly mate.....

"

Grassy

[PlanB]

Mint Platinum Card

Date commenced: Approx. 2004

Approx Balance £3500

Date last paid: June 2014

Defaulted: 2012?

Status: Not paying (token payments until 2020)

Account owner: Cabot

30/07/14 - CCA request sent to Mint.
30/08 /14 - Copy of application form plus 2 sets of T&Cs received from Mint. Looks possibly enforceable. Will scan and upload to Niddy by the end of the week [done]
17/09/14 - Weak collections letter received from Mint's 'Debt Recovery Office' - "we have noticed that payments are not being made in line with the special agreement. If payments are not brought up to date we may need to take further action"

While I'm waiting for Niddy to take a view on the agreement (I think this one IS probably ) I'll sit tight and see what they send next
Update 25/09 not heard anything on my previous CCA upload to AAD but I may treat this as enforceable for the time being as Mint's debt management office are sending stroppy letters - don't want it sold off to a debt purchaser if it is. And I have a strong feeling the CCA is solid.

23/04/21 - Update - was taken over by Cabot some time ago and was making token payments then stopped last year. Cabot letter : We are going to send Resolvecall round to put a card through the door. Filed.

Hello

May I just clarify some things to see if that helps your thought process.

You sent a CCA Request to Mint in 2014. They sent you 2 sets of Ts & Cs in response. This account was opened in 2004 so it's possible a signed credit agreement would be needed.

You thought they (the Ts & Cs) looked possibly enforceable but you've not had an opinion from Niddy or anyone else (unless I've misunderstood your post).

You continued to pay Mint and then Cabot until last year i.e. 2020.

I've got more to say but I thought it best to establish the facts first.

Di

[Grassy_K]

Don't know if it will help you but I had a Mint card from around that time which was sold to Cabot around 2016. I had CCA'd Mint and received what looked like an enforceable copy of my agreement complete with signature. When I sent a cya request to cabot they were unable to comply - admittedly it was only £383 but the NatWest card was £2500 and they couldn't help with that either. Both accounts were closed.

I'm not suggesting you send a cca request now but keep it up your sleeve

Well that certainly helps, thanks a lot. I'll definitely be sending a CCA to Cabot if things get hotter.

[Warwick65]

Mint Platinum Card

Date commenced: Approx. 2004

Approx Balance £3500

Date last paid: June 2014

Defaulted: 2012?

Status: Not paying (token payments until 2020)

Account owner: Cabot

30/07/14 - CCA request sent to Mint.
30/08 /14 - Copy of application form plus 2 sets of T&Cs received from Mint. Looks possibly enforceable. Will scan and upload to Niddy by the end of the week [done]
17/09/14 - Weak collections letter received from Mint's 'Debt Recovery Office' - "we have noticed that payments are not being made in line with the special agreement. If payments are not brought up to date we may need to take further action"

While I'm waiting for Niddy to take a view on the agreement (I think this one IS probably ) I'll sit tight and see what they send next
Update 25/09 not heard anything on my previous CCA upload to AAD but I may treat this as enforceable for the time being as Mint's debt management office are sending stroppy letters - don't want it sold off to a debt purchaser if it is. And I have a strong feeling the CCA is solid.

23/04/21 - Update - was taken over by Cabot some time ago and was making token payments then stopped last year. Cabot letter : We are going to send Resolvecall round to put a card through the door. Filed.

Don't know if it will help you but I had a Mint card from around that time which was sold to Cabot around 2016. I had CCA'd Mint and received what looked like an enforceable copy of my agreement complete with signature. When I sent a cya request to cabot they were unable to comply - admittedly it was only £383 but the NatWest card was £2500 and they couldn't help with that either. Both accounts were closed.

I'm not suggesting you send a cca request now but keep it up your sleeve

[Grassy_K]

HFC Credit Card

Date commenced: Approx. 2003

Approx Balance £5900

Date last paid Oct 2020

Defaulted December 2013

Account owner HFC still (I think)

13/1 Letter from HFC - account has been referred to Restons Solicitors
20/1 Letter to HFC - complaint re failure to consider offers or freeze interest, request for copy of Credit Agreement enclosing £1
21/1 Extremely threatening letter received from Restons - pay up by January 30th or we will issue a County Court summons
21/1 Letter to Restons - outstanding CCA request and account in dispute with HFC
29/1 Letter from Restons - We are referring to our client and will revert back to you in due course
13/2 - STILL NO RESPONSE FROM HFC TO MY CCA REQUEST AND COMPLAINT
13/2 - Letter from Restons - backing down from the court action - no longer instructed in this matter, please direct all future communications to HFC
25/2 - 13/2 - STILL NO RESPONSE FROM HFC TO MY CCA REQUEST AND COMPLAINT
19/3 - Phone call from HFC - apologies for taking a long time to respond - offer of 3 months' interest and charges refunded (unfortunately only back to the account...) sorry it's taken so long to respond to the CCA request but it will be provided within the next 3-4 weeks (no hurry!).
28/3 Update: Signed for parcel from HFC received. Here is the information you requested. Consisting of 1) Statement of account 2) Photocopy of genuine application form with signatures of applicant & bank 3) Pages 1 & 2 of T&C's which should total 4 pages according to the footer. Will scan and send to the Master tonight, but I think I see a couple of issues with this from an enforceability standpoint. Here's hoping.
13/4 - Niddy confirms . Thanks Niddy!
13/4 - Niddy's had a rethink - (or at least, very easy to remedy the UE status if they wanted to)
13/4 - Monthly payment offer prepared
11/2/21 Quick update on this one, they accepted a token payment offer of £10 a month back in 2014, to take Restons Solicitors off my back. It's still in-house as far as I know. This was supposed to be for 6 months then reviewed. Never really heard from them since, dropped the standing order to £5 a year ago, then to £1 in October last year, cancelled completely 2 months ago. Still silence. The debt will still be there, of course, but let's see what happens now.

23/04/21 - Letter - they want to talk to me, urgently. Still with in house collections.

As a general note to anyone newer to this, I would recommend don't make the mistake I did and do token payments out of fear. I have done very well overall, with a good chunk of debt admitted or deemed UE. But past token payments to the EN ones have meant I'm still dealing with letters and threats on a few accounts, not free and clear / over the statute barred line. So I've been unable to move on, like many of the folks who were around nearly 10 years ago when I first found this forum. We live and learn...

[Grassy_K]

Mint Platinum Card

Date commenced: Approx. 2004

Approx Balance £3500

Date last paid: June 2014

Defaulted: 2012?

Status: Not paying (token payments until 2020)

Account owner: Cabot

30/07/14 - CCA request sent to Mint.
30/08 /14 - Copy of application form plus 2 sets of T&Cs received from Mint. Looks possibly enforceable. Will scan and upload to Niddy by the end of the week [done]
17/09/14 - Weak collections letter received from Mint's 'Debt Recovery Office' - "we have noticed that payments are not being made in line with the special agreement. If payments are not brought up to date we may need to take further action"

While I'm waiting for Niddy to take a view on the agreement (I think this one IS probably ) I'll sit tight and see what they send next
Update 25/09 not heard anything on my previous CCA upload to AAD but I may treat this as enforceable for the time being as Mint's debt management office are sending stroppy letters - don't want it sold off to a debt purchaser if it is. And I have a strong feeling the CCA is solid.

23/04/21 - Update - was taken over by Cabot some time ago and was making token payments then stopped last year. Cabot letter : We are going to send Resolvecall round to put a card through the door. Filed.

[Grassy_K]

Hi Grassy

I have been reading back and you received a letter of claim for an old egg card that is UE is that right?

Did you ever reply or have you received a claim?

If you did not reply I am going to suggest you send them a reply ticking box D and saying it is unenforceable as they are in default of your CCA truest. Better to head off before court than face the stress of a claim.

Hi Warwick!

I'm not able to comment publically at the moment, but matters are in hand. Thank you for the advice.

Looking forward to posting an update in due course.

Best,

Grassy

[Warwick65]

Hi Grassy

I have been reading back and you received a letter of claim for an old egg card that is UE is that right?

Did you ever reply or have you received a claim?

If you did not reply I am going to suggest you send them a reply ticking box D and saying it is unenforceable as they are in default of your CCA truest. Better to head off before court than face the stress of a claim.

[Grassy_K]

Meanwhile

I've looked back at this post you made earlier in the month because the debt owner is also Asset Link Capital (No 5?) who hadn't been in touch with you since 2016 until now.

You also posted that Link had recently searched your credit file shortly before sending you that 'Letter of Claim' for your old Egg credit card debt.

This Co-op Platinum credit card is also very old (2004) and you've been told the credit agreement is unenforceable too. However keep an eye on the post and let me know if you receive a 'Letter of Claim' for this one too.

No need to worry, and definitely don't do anything yet - I just like to keep one step ahead of the enemy!

Di

Thanks Di. Doing and saying nothing, until told otherwise.. silence is golden.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Co-Op Platinum Card




Date commenced: Approx. 2004

Approx Balance £3500

Date last paid: June 2020 token £1 (date corrected)

Defaulted: 2012

Status: Wussy £5 token payments via StepChange up to June - nothing since then

Account owner: Co-Op

30/06 - CCA request sent to Co-Op
17/07 - Letter received from Co-Op. No CCA for you, son... "We first require a wet signature in order to verify your identity". They kindly enclose a stamped addressed envelope for this purpose.
18/08 - Bad copy of signed application form received (ie hard to read) but can't see any terms
19/08 - Uploaded docs to AAD for enforceability checking
20/08 - Niddy says - missing prescribed terms letter sent
16/09 - Reply from Co-Op : "Please find a larger copy of your agreement (blown up to A4 size but still barely legible and missing prescribed terms) - we note your comments regarding the previous copy but this is the best we are able to produce from our archives"
4/11 - Letter from Co-Op - threats re further action/legal action (not a LBA)
13/11 - Popped off a reply along the lines of: account in dispute, please refer to previous letter.
24/11 - Co-Op - we've received your complaint and are dealing with it
23/12 - Co-Op - sorry we haven't resolved your complaint yet, we're still dealing with it
15/1/15 - Asset Link Capital c/o Link Financial Outsourcing - Co-Op have sold us your debt, pay up!
17/1/15 - SWID/complaint sent to Asset Link
23/1/15 - Complaint response from Co-Op. You had the card, and used it, you owe. And here's the missing terms. You're now with Asset Link so speak to them if you have any more queries. So my SWID has crossed over in the post with Co-Op's response and possible rectification of UE. I'll have to scan and upload to Niddy to take a look at them, see if this is now EN and then work out my next course of action.
7/10/15 - Bugger. Bloody Link Financial again. They no longer consider this account to be in dispute and are seeking payment. 1 month to fill in an I&E form. No threats.
29/3/16 - "Ignoring this debt will not make it go away - you owe us, now pay up" letter from Link. I feel things are going to escalate from this point. I'll do what I said I was going to do in 2015 and get the docs uploaded later this week for advice. I'll feel safer if I have all my ducks in a row in advance, so to speak.
4/4/16 - Uploaded CCA docs for Niddy to check
6/4/16 = Niddy says still . I will sit tight until the next threat arrives and respond accordingly at that point.
30/4/16 - The monthly missive from Link has arrived. They note that although they purchased the debt on xx date they have yet to receive any proposals for payment and helpfully suggest paying it off in installments over the next 10 years. They enclose a direct mandate for my convenience. IGNORED.
28/5/16 - Link - "We have not written to you for some time because we had to locate your address. Please telephone us to confirm your intentions regarding the outstanding balance..."
02/02/21 - Email received from Link - please contact us now. Ignoring.

Meanwhile

I've looked back at this post you made earlier in the month because the debt owner is also Asset Link Capital (No 5?) who hadn't been in touch with you since 2016 until now.

You also posted that Link had recently searched your credit file shortly before sending you that 'Letter of Claim' for your old Egg credit card debt.

This Co-op Platinum credit card is also very old (2004) and you've been told the credit agreement is unenforceable too. However keep an eye on the post and let me know if you receive a 'Letter of Claim' for this one too.

No need to worry, and definitely don't do anything yet - I just like to keep one step ahead of the enemy!

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Yes it's a letter of claim. Email sent

I've received everything.

If the names and dates on recon documents don't tally with the facts mentioned in a Letter of Claim it makes me wonder what they will actually plead in the Particulars of Claim if they do decide to issue one.

I've replied to your email.

Di