Dibs UE Diaries

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

hi Dibs

Just to clarify, what did they send in response to your CCA request...was this a recon? Did Niddy tell you on what basis it's UE?
I know you didn't sign anything for the Citibank account, does that apply to the Cap One account too?

Elsa x

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

I really should have started these before now!

Capital One

Credit card taken out in 1999

Current dca is Robinson Way
Approx balance outstanding is £1400
Niddy has said that it's UE

August 2007 CCA request sent to Capquest
Last payment August 2007
September 2007 Account returned to Capital One
November 2007 SAR sent to C1
December 2007 Account sold to Robinson Way
Endless correspondence with RW
May 2012 letter from RW stating that the documentation provided is sufficient to prove liability and they will not enter into repetitive correspondence regarding this.
November 2012 Letter from RW stating that the account has been assigned to Hoist Portfolio, however, RW will continue to manage the account, pay up or else!

The letters have become as frequent as snow showers and just as irritating, the last one demanded payment or they may take further action against me!
I sent the CPUTR request again and enclosed a letter asking why they were refusing to answer this request, same reply from them again: "We are satisfied that the documentation provided is sufficient to demonstrate liability and we will not enter into repetitive correspondence regarding this," clearly a template letter, but I really don't know where to go from here?

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

I couldn't agree more, Paul.

I have often wondered why it is that all the required documents are not prepared and presented to the court by the plaintiff, prior to a summons being issued, which would hopefully ensure that it was at least enforceable, however, clearly I do not have a vast amount of experience of the court system!

Thank you Paul & SXGuy for the replies regards this alleged Citibank account, it's helped me with clarity on my reply to their recent letter.

[Paul.]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

not entirely correct

If a positive assertion that you never signed an agreement is not made, then the court could give judgment on a recon supported by witness evidence

I just mention "Iron Mountain Fire" as one reason why they would not have a copy of the signed agreement

I just want to add that personally i think it is wrong that the burden to raise unenforceability in great detail rests on the shoulders of the defendant in these cases.

However that is what it is at the moment and until a higher court rules otherwise, were left with it.

[Paul.]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

That is correct, a recon can be used to satisfy the request, but they need proof of an orignal to obtain a court judgement. Thats the point you rely on.

not entirely correct

If a positive assertion that you never signed an agreement is not made, then the court could give judgment on a recon supported by witness evidence

I just mention "Iron Mountain Fire" as one reason why they would not have a copy of the signed agreement

[SXGuy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

That is correct, a recon can be used to satisfy the request, but they need proof of an orignal to obtain a court judgement. Thats the point you rely on.

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Thank you for the replies.
SH, I have sent the CPUTR 2008 and no joy, (Missed that out,doh!) they confirmed that they had been unable to obtain a copy of the original signed credit agreement and therefore, cannot supply me with it. They then reiterate that the reconstituted copy is sufficient to fulfil the requirements set out under section 77/78 of the CCA, therefore, whether they hold a signed copy or not is not applicable in this instance.

[Paul.]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

I'm wondering whether it might be a good time to utilise a CPUTR strategy here. Have you read Priority One's thread on that? If not, here it is -

PriorityOne CPUTR 2008 (ex P1 CAG CPUTR 2008) - allaboutFORUMS

I think a lot of that thread, especially Waksman's assertion that the original would be needed for enforcement, is relevant here.

SH

if you never signed an agreement

and you make a positive assertion that you never signed an agreement

Then the creditor will need to produce evidence to rebut that assertion.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

I have received yet another letter from this lot and my question is this: I know that I have never signed a credit agreement, hence the reason they can't supply an original copy, however, they are stating that a reconstituted copy is all they need to prove the debt in court, so how can they supply a reconstituted copy of something that never existed, isn't that fraud?
I realise that they are not going to go away and will argue every point, but I am reluctant to send a template letter and need to compose a letter that sets out the relevant argument, which in a nutshell is that they have absolutely nothing with my signature!

I'm wondering whether it might be a good time to utilise a CPUTR strategy here. Have you read Priority One's thread on that? If not, here it is -

PriorityOne CPUTR 2008 (ex P1 CAG CPUTR 2008) - allaboutFORUMS

I think a lot of that thread, especially Waksman's assertion that the original would be needed for enforcement, is relevant here.

SH

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Citibank

This is an old credit card that defaulted around 2002 with an approximate balance of £2885.
2002 Purchased by Cabot and I made token payment until 2007
August 2007 Last payment made and CCA requested
Loads and loads of letters received, resulting in the the death of a forest!
June 2011 Generic T&C's
Niddy stated that this is UE
September 2011 CPUTR 2008 request sent
November 2011 Reply received that states that they have been unable to obtain a copy of the original signed agreement, it never existed, however, they claim that a reconstituted agreement is is sufficient to fulfil the requirements of S77/78 of the CCA and is legally enforceable.
November 2012 Letter received and gives me 7 days to make a satisfactory offer of repayment, or they will instruct an external collection agency to collect, or instruct their in-house litigation department, Morgan solicitors to commence legal action. Now demanding almost £7500!
November 2012 Reply sent asking for them to satisfy my S78 request in full and to send me a copy of the original, true copy of the signed agreement.

I have received yet another letter from this lot and my question is this: I know that I have never signed a credit agreement, hence the reason they can't supply an original copy, however, they are stating that a reconstituted copy is all they need to prove the debt in court, so how can they supply a reconstituted copy of something that never existed, isn't that fraud?
I realise that they are not going to go away and will argue every point, but I am reluctant to send a template letter and need to compose a letter that sets out the relevant argument, which in a nutshell is that they have absolutely nothing with my signature!

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Absolutely!

Their letter however is misleading, as it tends to suggest that another company has been assigned this alleged debt and are threatening court action, therefore, my attitude is that I require some proof of the assignment, otherwise how am I to know that they are not attempting to hoist my money under false pretences!

[billytommo]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Hoist Group acquired Robinson Way Ltd on 12th November 2012. Their website states that RW will continue to operate 'under it's own brand name'. Still then!

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

I really should have started these before now!

Capital One

Credit card taken out in 1999

Current dca is Robinson Way
Approx balance outstanding is £1400
Niddy has said that it's UE

August 2007 CCA request sent to Capquest
Last payment August 2007
September 2007 Account returned to Capital One
November 2007 SAR sent to C1
December 2007 Account sold to Robinson Way
Endless correspondence with RW
May 2012 letter from RW stating that the documentation provided is sufficient to prove liability and they will not enter into repetitive correspondence regarding this.
November 2012 Letter from RW stating that the account has been assigned to Hoist Portfolio, however, RW will continue to manage the account, pay up or else!

I have received another letter from RW stating that thier client the Hoist Group, have authorised RW to recover the full amount, or they will consider court action

I have not heard anything from a company called the Hoist Group and fail to understand why RW believe that I should simply pay up without proof!

Has anyone had any dealings with this mythical group?

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

We keep Muscovies and they are wonderful characters, but certainly messy!

I have drafted a letter to bcw and will send by recorded delivery next week, it will be interesting to see what they come back with

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

You have ducks?? Awww I miss my ducks..I let them go to a lovely lady with a lot more room for them a few months ago, as they were pining for the drake and needed more ducky company.
Don't miss mucking them out in winter though