Dibs UE Diaries

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

It's a tricky one, because I know that I haven't signed an agreement, however, I assume I signed an application, they have no documents with my signature, or statements or anything other than a document that they claim is reconstructed, but I have nothing at all for this account other than Cabot demanding money from me and that amount is growing on a daily basis.

I fail to see how they can prove anything, therefore, I need to argue my case sufficiently to stop them taking this to court, but i'm going round in circles!

[Still Waving]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

A reply I had (from a different creditor) to a CCA request said
"For the avoidance of doubt, the signature page provided is a scanned copy
of the signature page of your original agreement only. lncluded on the
reverse was an extract of the terms of your original agreement (including
the prescribed terms) or the full terms of your agreement, which can be
referred to in the reconstituted agreement enclosed. Prior to signature you
were provided with a full copy of the terms of your original agreement to
keep and were sent a further copy of your original agreement with your first
credit card."

So according to them they are covered by belt, braces and a piece of string. However, if they aren't sure what was on the reverse, how can they produce a true copy?

[Paul.]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

That's what they have stated, however, I do find it hard to believe!

Yes, however if the debtor makes a positive assertion that he never signed an agreement the position changes.

So if for example you said no i never signed an agreement cos i opened the account over the phone when i called from dubai or whereever, then that would cause the creditor a problem

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

That's what they have stated, however, I do find it hard to believe!

[Still Waving]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

I have received a letter today from Cabot and the contents are:

"Please note that the information within the reconstituted credit agreement is the information that would have been within the credit agreement you originally signed. This is acceptable in court. We hope this clarifies the matter." Now pay up!

I'm just going round in circles!

Is this correct, can they just stand up in court and say "would have been" and be accepted?

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Citibank

This is an old credit card that defaulted around 2002 with an approximate balance of £2885.
2002 Purchased by Cabot and I made token payment until 2007
August 2007 Last payment made and CCA requested
Loads and loads of letters received, resulting in the the death of a forest!
June 2011 Generic T&C's
Niddy stated that this is UE
September 2011 CPUTR 2008 request sent
November 2011 Reply received that states that they have been unable to obtain a copy of the original signed agreement, however, they claim that a reconstituted agreement is is sufficient to fulfil the requirements of S77/78 of the CCA and is legally enforceable.
November 2012 Letter received and gives me 7 days to make a satisfactory offer of repayment, or they will instruct an external collection agency to collect, or instruct their in-house litigation department, Morgan solicitors to commence legal action. Now demanding almost £7500!
November 2012 Reply sent asking for them to satisfy my S78 request in full and to send me a copy of the original, true copy of the signed agreement.

I sent Cabot a letter stating that I could not understand how you reconstruct something that has never existed and stated very clearly that I have never signed an agreement.

Unusually, I don't have anything for this account, other than correspondence from Cabot.

I have received a letter today from Cabot and the contents are:

"Please note that the information within the reconstituted credit agreement is the information that would have been within the credit agreement you originally signed. This is acceptable in court. We hope this clarifies the matter." Now pay up!

I'm just going round in circles!

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

I will wait for them to write again and send that template, thank you Elsa x

Have uploaded a copy of t&c's for Niddy to take a look at, so will also need to see what he thinks.

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Well if they want to play template tennis, I'd send them this next:
Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | CCA Query - Application Form Received

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

SX that's a fair point.

The application form does state that it is a credit card agreement, however, it states that the t&c's are overleaf setting out the agreement with C1, there is nothing printed on the other side.

RW purchased this account in late 2007, have never received a payment and so far other than sending endless template letters that threaten, make offers or state that the agreement is enforceable, they have yet to actually compose and write a letter to me, or indeed start court action, but of course that could still happen, although it makes me wonder why they have not already done so......

[cardiac arrest]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Hold on, lets not get carried away, ive not seen this application form, but i do think theres some misconseption going on here.

An application form, is also an agreement, providing it ticks the right boxes.

It must state that its a consumer credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974, if it says this, its an agreement.

Next it must contain the prescribed terms, either on the same document, or another, but must make reference to that document.

and lastly, you must realise the difference between complying with a CCA Request, and whether it could be used to enforce in court, as its two different things.

Even when the form says...'when completing this application. etc....' ?

[SXGuy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Hold on, lets not get carried away, ive not seen this application form, but i do think theres some misconseption going on here.

An application form, is also an agreement, providing it ticks the right boxes.

It must state that its a consumer credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974, if it says this, its an agreement.

Next it must contain the prescribed terms, either on the same document, or another, but must make reference to that document.

and lastly, you must realise the difference between complying with a CCA Request, and whether it could be used to enforce in court, as its two different things.

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Hi Elsa,
Yes, it was this one: http://www.all-about-debt.co.uk/temp...lity/s2-t1.php
Always the same reply from them, it's enforceable and they will not engage in repetitive correspondence, maybe I should write the same to them, as they churn out weekly letters!
Thank you for your help Elsa.
x

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Hi Dibs,
Thanks hun...
Apart from CPUTR, what was the last template from here you sent them...missing prescribed terms? ?

[daisy]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

Good Morning Elsa,

RW have only sent a copy of an application form in reply to my CCA request and it is only the application form that I have signed.

I did SAR C1 in 2007, they sent a copy of the application form, a template default notice and a copy of t&c's, they stated the default notice date as 2004, but did not enclose the actual copy, also statements which show several charges of £20 for each overlimit payment fee and late payment fee, however, they only total a little over £200.

Dibs x

[cardiac arrest]

Re: Dibs UE Diaries

not entirely correct

If a positive assertion that you never signed an agreement is not made, then the court could give judgment on a recon supported by witness evidence

I just mention "Iron Mountain Fire" as one reason why they would not have a copy of the signed agreement

just to clarify...filling in and and signing an application form, will never stand in the place of actually signing an agreement, will it..as a lot of us only ever get back application forms when doing a CCA request ?