ohmygosh Diary

[ohmygosh]

Hi Everyone!

I've been lurking for a couple of months and decided to take the plunge and post here as well as send CAA letters (which I never even knew was a thing until recently so I've actually paid quite a lot back of the debts that I owed).

I ran into trouble back in 2013 due to a failed business venture and consequently ended up maxed out across several credit cards, I managed to turn things around early 2014 but not quickly enough to avoid them all defaulting. I felt pretty hard done by at the time as I was doing as much as I could to avoid that happening.

I had cards with Natwest (£?) Capital One (£2.4k), Halifax (£6k) and Barclaycard (£12k). The defaults were mostly in 2014, according to my credit file Barclaycard was the last one to default on 4 August 2015 by which time it was already with PRA - the default appears on my credit file as PRA, not Barclaycard. Natwest and Capital One have been fully paid back now, Halifax is with Moorcroft although not owned by Intrum and has a balance of £4.7k but has dropped off my credit file. Barclaycard/PRA has a balance of £6.7k and is still on my credit file for another 6 months. I'm currently paying £25 a month to Moorcroft and £61 to PRA and have been for ages. I'll post the proper format below.

I guess I'm just here for some reassurance / moral support (as well as to stick it to PRA and Moorcroft/Intrum) as I'm totally new to all this.

It seems like the general approach is to send a CCA request and then see what happens, I'm going to get them in the post in the next couple of weeks.

[ohmygosh]

Debt 1 - PRA Group

Type of account: Barclaycard Credit card
Date commenced: February 2010
Defaulted balance: £12k
Current balance: £6.7k
Status: Default Issued August 2015
Current status: £61 per month by standing order since date of default
Assigned: PRA Group - Early 2014?
Account Owner: PRA Group

History:
12/04/21 - PRA sent a letter saying the found the debt to be unenforceable
12/07/23 - PRA still send the odd email offering a discount but that’s it

[ohmygosh]

Debt 2 - Moorcroft Debt Recovery / Intrum

Type of account: Halifax Credit Card
Date commenced: 2010
Defaulted balance: £6.5k
Current balance: £4.7k
Status: Default Issued 2014
Current status: £25 per month by standing order since date of default
Purchased by Intrum: 20/11/2018
Account Owner: LBG owned by Intrum

History:
24/08/2020 - Settlement offered by Moorcroft
27/10/2020 - Settlement offered by Moorcroft (£3,297 / 70%)
09/12/2020 - Settlement offered by Moorcroft
22/01/2021 - Settlement offered by Moorcroft
May 2021 - Cancelled direct debit payment
17/06/2022 - Niddy advised debt looks UE
30/01/23 - Email received that debt has been assigned to LC Asset 2 S.a r.l. by Intrum Finance Limited on 05/01/23
06/07/23 - hard debt collection search appeared on credit file by Link Financial Outsourcing Ltd

[ca71]

Welcome!

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I'm just here for some reassurance / moral support (as well as to stick it to PRA and Moorcroft/Intrum) as I'm totally new to all this.

It seems like the general approach is to send a CCA request and then see what happens, I'm going to get them in the post in the next couple of weeks.

Hello

I'd like to take a look at everything you've posted and then comment before you send CCA Requests to anyone. It can be all about timing.

PRA took me to court and lost so don't assume they'll walk all over you >

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGNMENT PROVED”


So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Debt 2 - Moorcroft Debt Recovery / Intrum

Type of account: Halifax Credit Card
Date commenced: 2010
Defaulted balance: £6.5k
Current balance: £4.7k
Status: Default Issued 2014
Current status: £25 per month by standing order since date of default
Purchased by Intrum: ? Early 2020?
Account Owner: LBG owned by Intrum

This ex-Halifax credit card is now owned by Intrum who do not have FCA authorisation to issue legal proceedings, although that doesn't mean they won't try.

Jo explains the legal situation here >

Intrum UK Finance Limited is not authorised by the Financial Conduct Authority to exercise the rights of a lender. They rely on the para 55 FSMA 2000 servicing exemption.

We look forward to using the same legal arguments in the future against Intrum UK Finance Limited which we used against Idem Capital Securities Limited in the recent successful FCA authorisation Appeal where the Circuit Judge found that the para 55 FSMA 2000 servicing exemption did not allow the unauthorised debt purchaser to issue proceedings in the county court.

Intrum also have issues with their assignment process and documentation.

Send off CCA Requests to both PRA and Intrum and see what comes back.

Di

[Warwick65]

Hi

If you have a debt owned by Intrum who can not enforce, are you still paying and if so why?

I know its a big decision but you will not be rid of it for 15 years or longer but if you stop , 6 years later its SB

[ohmygosh]

Thanks Di, my sending of the CCA requests has been delayed but I'll be sending this week.

Warwick65 yes I have been up to now, I've only just learnt about enforceability etc. If they agree to a low settlement then the case can be closed, right? I understand that I could pay nothing and be rid of it in 6 years but tbh I'd rather pay a small premium to not have to deal with it for another 6 years.

[nightwatch]

Hi OMG.

just a word about F&F, PRA or Intrum very rarely accept a low settlement figures.

This is why you send for the CCA to see if they can legaly ask for payment.
plus an agreement for low,one off final payment has to be worded correctly, or you could find they take your money, then pass the remaining balance on to someone else to collect.
not a nice thing to do, but many people in a rush to get rid of the debt and stop the call's and letters, agree to one thing over the phone, or now online, then find out too late it wasn't quite what they thought, but they have signed and agreed to it.

slowly slowly catchy monkey

NW

[ohmygosh]

Hey Nightwatch, thanks for the info, that’s a bit of a shame.

I sent off the CCA requests on Saturday using the template, recorded delivery and with the necessary postal/money order.

I understand re everything in writing etc.

If I were to go the statute barred route which will take another 6 years, I guess I would be required to mention the outstanding liabilities if applying for a mortgage at some point in the next 6 years?

[nightwatch]

Your defaults would show up if paid off or not, all be it they may say settled OR partially settled, hence the wording of the F&F letter, more often than not many DCAs only record them as partially settled.
so a default on your Credit file will stay there for 6 years ( 5 in Scotland) from the date the creditors register it, it will then drop off debt cleared or not, anyone buying the debt can register it in their name, but the original date of default must remain the same, it cannot be registered as a new default.

If one was defaulted in 2014 then that would of been removed already. The one in 2015 will drop off around September this year. As long as they were the dates the default were showing as registered on your Credit file.

If so there should be no problem with applying for a mortgage in a couple of years as they won't show up.

NW

[ohmygosh]

An update!

I’ve received a response from PRA to say they’re looking for the info so my account is on hold for the time being.

Nothing from Intrum yet but they’ve got another couple of days.

[ohmygosh]

Another update:

Mail received from PRA - a load of copy statements but also a letter to say they have deemed the debt as unenforceable.

Presumably this is a good thing.

Still nothing from Intrum. I wrote to them directly, should I have written to Moorcroft instead? The debt is owned by Intrum and Moorcroft are engaged to do the chasing/collections.

[The Tech Clerk]

unenforceable - good, no chasing any, moorcroft only hopeful commission chasers.


any updates let us know!

[Warwick65]

Another update:

Mail received from PRA - a load of copy statements but also a letter to say they have deemed the debt as unenforceable.

Presumably this is a good thing.

Still nothing from Intrum. I wrote to them directly, should I have written to Moorcroft instead? The debt is owned by Intrum and Moorcroft are engaged to do the chasing/collections.

That's good to hear from PRA- make sure you keep that letter.
As for Intrum - you did the right thing to go to them, Moorcroft always used to say contact the creditor. Don't remind them