Alianza's Unenforceability Diary PRA debt 2

[Roger]

I have just noticed on the letter before claim that it states ' By an assignment in writing dated 20/08/2012, the creditor assigned the debt to PRA Group'. This is factually incorrect as according to all my filed letters in 2012 the people writing to me were Aktiv Kapital and the first letter I ever had from PRA was in 2015. Does this make a difference or is it not relevant. (The same phrase was used on my other letter before claim too)
Alianza

Well DONE!!

Now make certain you have a copy of that Letter Before Claim because it is very relevant!
Not something to raise or discuss with PRA!
Keep this information very safe!! DON'T correct them!!

This is what I mean about making Notes and Storing Details for your OWN Records!
Give yourself a PAT on the BACK!!!

[Warwick65]

What will be really interesting is if you respond and ask for copies of the notice and deed of assignment and they send you a 'reconstituted' one that is factually incorrect- well if it got that far, I would imagine a Judge may think- if they are mistaken about this what else are they mistaken about? Using the word lie in a civil court is a whole new ball game and one I wouldn't want to enter so terms like misremembered, mistaken, incomplete information all say the same thing but in a more polite manner.

[The Tech Clerk]

What will be really interesting is if you respond and ask for copies of the notice and deed of assignment and they send you a 'reconstituted' one that is factually incorrect- well if it got that far, I would imagine a Judge may think- if they are mistaken about this what else are they mistaken about? Using the word lie in a civil court is a whole new ball game and one I wouldn't want to enter so terms like misremembered, mistaken, incomplete information all say the same thing but in a more polite manner.

Mis-directed is the term

[Warwick65]

Mis-directed is the term

Isn’t that the term when you win an appeal- the previous judge misdirected themselves.

Not when you are calling debt purchasers a bunch or lying bar stewards

[Roger]

Lets just say Assignment chains create problems! Not least proving ownership and or the right to Sue.

"..
10th August 2012 letter from MBNA saying debt now sold to Aktiv Kapital Portfolio AS Zug Branch
16th jan 2015 letter from PRA telling me PRA Group (UK) Limited have been assigned the debt from Aktiv Kapital Portfolio, AS, Oslo, Zug branch on 31/12/2014 and also a stement of accoun that also says that Aktiv Kapital (UK) Limited changed its name to PRA Group (UK) Limited on 6th November 2014
.."

Sending a SAR to MBNA here at some point will be extremely important as to who/whom they are or have been communicating with.

All you need to do is make Notes ensure your paper work is stored and in hand!
DO NOT ENGAGE in arguments. Especially complex legal arguments over Assignments!

No need to speculate here keep correspondence simply and terse!

[The Tech Clerk]

Isn’t that the term when you win an appeal- the previous judge misdirected themselves.

Not when you are calling debt purchasers a bunch or lying bar stewards

yes or in conversation/opinion

Debt purchasers well there are other unconscionable words that a judge may/may not accept?

[The Tech Clerk]

THe old Aktiv Kapital keeps cropping up problems (wish it had a few years ago)

[Warwick65]

I have just noticed on the letter before claim that it states ' By an assignment in writing dated 20/08/2012, the creditor assigned the debt to PRA Group'. This is factually incorrect as according to all my filed letters in 2012 the people writing to me were Aktiv Kapital and the first letter I ever had from PRA was in 2015. Does this make a difference or is it not relevant. (The same phrase was used on my other letter before claim too)
Alianza

I think this is testament to the importance of keeping all letters and emails. Many of us failed to do that initially while we were playing ostrich. I was dreadful at it , if it looked nasty it went in the bin La la la de la

[alianza]

I was uncertain whether to ignore or dispute the letter i got but in the end i followed Warwick65's advice and ticked box D and listed the reasons he gave. I have received a letter back saying the account is on hold while they get further information from the original creditor etc, Alianza

[Warwick65]

I was uncertain whether to ignore or dispute the letter i got but in the end i followed Warwick65's advice and ticked box D and listed the reasons he gave. I have received a letter back saying the account is on hold while they get further information from the original creditor etc, Alianza

That is great news, at least it gives you some breathing spice, hopefully for a very long time. Did the letter come from the PRA or a solicitor - I ask because sometimes the two do not talk . If you get any more letters please post up here to see what people think.

[alianza]

they were from PRA i have had nothing to do with either of my PRA debts from a solicitor. Alianza

[PlanB]

it was a debt from an MBNA credit card originally taken out march 2002. . not sure when it defaulted probably sometime about 2012 to 2014...my paperwork from that time is not complete, i think it was with aktiv before pra

I'm pleased to see the good news (the account is on hold) especially since Niddy has already said the paperwork PRA sent you originally was unenforceable.

Even if they come up with something better this time that doesn't mean they got everything else right such as the Default Notice and/or the assignment chain to Aktiv Kapital in 2012 and then PRA.

In my case PRA v Diana Mayhew they produced two credit agreements which they claimed were enforceable but the Judge (Recorder) disagreed, and they couldn’t prove the assignment either >

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGNMENT PROVED”


So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

Di

[alianza]

Letter from PRA received. Account still on hold while they await further information.Alianza

[alianza]

Update. Letter received today from PRA. Contains a history of my account and a summary of what has gone on but ends with

'I contacted MBNA and requested all of the documentation you have asked us for on both accounts. Unfortunately MBNA are unable to provide us with the default notice for the first account. In addition, they are unable to provide the agreement containing the terms and conditions for the second account. '
then a bit of blah blah blah about how convinced they are that the debts were mine and remain outstanding but ends 'as a goodwill gesture I have made the decision to close the accounts and stop any further collection activity and cease contact with you going forward'

Wow that felt good typing that out.
Thx to all that have helped me over the last few years I love you all.
Alianza

[nightwatch]

The sky may be grey, but in here the sun is shining.