Moorcroft

[Jonesy81]

Hi, glad to see you back up again!.

since my last post I had my debt moved to Credit Security Ltd. At this time the site went down and so I messaged Facebook and Niddy kindly emailed me advice.

Since this got passed to Credit Security Ltd I had numerous letters (and missed calls) chasing, last letter including offering of a discount if I called (however didn’t say how much!).

Following this I have issued a cca letter at start of the month to them and will wait for reply.

Any previous dealings with this lot as never heard of them before?

thanks

[Night Monkey]

HSBC passed a defaulted overdraft of mine to Credit Security Ltd. in August, I've had three letters from them since so looks like DCA on a monthly routine. I'm ignoring for now to see what happens, I could do with it being sold on tbh.

[Jonesy81]

I though it said they had purchased it but not sure with the wordings on the letters. They signed for the cca letter yesterday so will find out shortly..

[nightwatch]

I had one with credit security, they didn't own it they were collecting for the original creditor, passed it back as soon as I became a problem

[Jonesy81]

Was hoping i could find out if Enforceable or not so going forwards I know if I need to worry! How many companies do they have collecting for them as this is the second?

[Timewilltell]

It is not uncommon for a debt owner to utilise the services of many Debt Collectors, as said they usually attempt to get you to pay with three monthly letters as they work on a commission basis, if you do not respond to them they will pass it back to Debt Owner as they are making no commission on it. I don’t usually serve any letters to these bottom feeders. In fact I usually wait as long as I can before sending any letters so that it eats into the 6 year Statute Barred period. Gives them less time to ‘make up’ or find the necessary papers!

Most of the Debt Purchasers will chase you for several months with empty threats before you need to send any CCA request letters to stop them in their tracks. Although as mentioned on another thread some are resorting to issuing claims during a pandemic, which I can only put down to the fact they are suffering from a loss of income during these times?? Shame!!

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Currently have over £30k debt which is being paid on various arrangements (credit cards) however one was with MBNA for £6k which went into default . . . was stopped about a year ago and now I have received a letter from moorcroft chasing the debt. I don’t know if moorcroft own the debt or working for mbna. My plan was to send the CAA letter (Using Template from Here) As card initially opened 2005 before looking into other options?
can someone advise if the debt is too recent

Hello Jonesy81

I've read back through you thread and can see you have other debts totalling over £30k which you say you are paying on various arrangements. Are you in a DMP or self-managing the situation?

Have all these debts (credit cards) been defaulted and are they still with the original creditors or assigned (sold) to a debt purchaser?

Why don't you list each of these so the forum can take a holistic look at your debt situation (see post #4).

It may (or may not) be wise to send s77-79 CCA Requests to all of them, but don't do that until the background of each debt becomes clear, so as to analyse the best way forward for you.

If this MBNA account was opened in 2005 I'd be interested to see what credit agreement is produced

Di

[Jonesy81]

Hi Diana,

I am currently self managing those debts. This one and one other (£13k now with Pra Group) were the only defaults.

Im comfortable paying what i am at the moment however happy to do diary when I get to a computer

I have received a reply from CLS (dated 7th Oct) re the CAA requested stating they will pend recovery action and refer back to their client. Will contact me further on clients instruction..

thanks

[Jonesy81]

Hi, so I have an update to my CCA request..

CSL sent letter on 26th October and I received what appears to be the original signed CCA form dated 21/09/05. They have also included various statements over last 2 years as well as transactions from the whole time so I think I don’t have much choice but to set up a plan?

they have included a current information form to fill out however it asks for my employer details as well as I’m income / expenditure - do I need to give them my employers details?? Wouldn’t they just be happy if I arranged a small payment each month?

any help appreciated!

thanks

[The Tech Clerk]

no you do not give them any detail of employer!

you state CCA 2005 received ?? send copy no redacting to:- webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk for checking if enforceable/not enforceable etc refer to this thread

if they included statement cam mean they are not too sure about it!

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

CSL sent letter on 26th October and I received what appears to be the original signed CCA form dated 21/09/05.

It may appear to be the original signed credit agreement but that doesn't mean it is!

In the case of PRA v Diana Mayhew (me ) PRA produced signed documents purporting to be the original credit agreements but the Judge (Recorder) ruled they were irredeemably unenforceable and their claim was dismissed.

Read about my case here >

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGNMENT PROVED”


So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

Di

[Timewilltell]

Don’t believe what you see, for much is just smoke and mirrors, believe in what you can prove to be fact.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Wouldn’t they just be happy if I arranged a small payment each month?

Of course they'd be happy if you just arranged a small payment each month, especially if the debt turns out to be unenforceable!

Have you emailed the credit agreement you were sent to Niddy (Never-In-Doubt forum owner) using webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk for his opinion on whether it is enforceable or not?

Di

[Jonesy81]

Hi all, thanks for the replies. I have emailed the doc received about an hour ago to see its enforceable.

I have since received a letter from CSL date 26 Nov stating that they agreed to hold the account whilst obtaining the requested info and this has now lapsed. We cannot hold account indefinitely and require payment and repayment proposal...

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Hi all, thanks for the replies. I have emailed the doc received about an hour ago to see its enforceable.

I have since received a letter from CSL date 26 Nov stating that they agreed to hold the account whilst obtaining the requested info and this has now lapsed. We cannot hold account indefinitely and require payment and repayment proposal...

What was Niddy’s opinion on whether this old MBNA credit agreement was enforceable or unenforceable?

Di