New U/E diary

[Jollyman1]

Thanks Moonmonkey. My thinking with a SAR was that it would disclose if perhaps the account had defaulted but not been notified as that to the CRAs (unlikely perhaps) and if not to ask them to backdate the default date.

This was a loan rather than a CC so I hadn't thought about interest being stopped as no further interest has been added, but I guess it was front loaded at the start. Does anyone have experience of how creditors should or do approach this where interest is front loaded? Would be great if at least some of the interest could be refubded/deducted. Thanks for making me give it some thought.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

My thinking with a SAR was that it would disclose if perhaps the account had defaulted but not been notified as that to the CRAs (unlikely perhaps) and if not to ask them to backdate the default date.

This was a loan rather than a CC so I hadn't thought about interest being stopped as no further interest has been added, but I guess it was front loaded at the start. Does anyone have experience of how creditors should or do approach this where interest is front loaded? Would be great if at least some of the interest could be refubded/deducted.

Please don't do anything about the default issue yet.

It may be to your advantage if the original creditor got it wrong.

You don't have the facts to make an informed decision (yet).

If you challenge the original creditor over potential interest issues they may decide (wrongly) to simply adjust the balance which they assigned to the debt purchaser (Cabot) if you're correct in your challenge. This wouldn't benefit you and could possible harm your situation (legally speaking).

You then have to consider whether your challenge has compromised your legal position.

Don't send a SAR yet.

Di

[Jollyman1]

Thanks Di, I'll hang fire on the SAR for now.
An alternative might be to SAR the CRAs for historical data, as all previous information for the Lowell accounts before they owned them doesn't show on any of the CRAs (except default dates for the 2 out of the 3 that have definitely defaulted.

[Jollyman1]

Thinking further about the above Di (dangerous for me lol), is the thought that I should be submitting a CCA request to Lowell to see what (if anything) they can come up with? Being a fairly recent account (opened 2016) I wasn't really holding out much hope of that they wouldn't be able to come up with it.

Not sure that I'm following on why a lack of default by the original creditor might benefit me, as surely the terms of any agreement are likely to have allowed the creditor to assign their interest?

[Timewilltell]

It’s about legality, they are legally obliged to do certain things to comply, if they fail in any of those then it is to your advantage. This includes having the correct dates/paperwork etc. So at this point you may not understand but I can assure you as you go through your journey you will gain more understanding, you are in safe hands here no one is here to trip you up.

[Jollyman1]

Hi Time and thanks for posting. I didn't think for a minute anyone was trying to trip me up; before starting my own thread I've looked at all the fab help you guys have given to other people on here. Just trying to sort in my own head what the next step is and what course my UE journey should be taking.

[Timewilltell]

Well Jolly, I shall refer you back to post #17 for your next steps.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Thinking further about the above Di (dangerous for me lol), is the thought that I should be submitting a CCA request to Lowell to see what (if anything) they can come up with? Being a fairly recent account (opened 2016) I wasn't really holding out much hope of that they wouldn't be able to come up with it.

Not sure that I'm following on why a lack of default by the original creditor might benefit me, as surely the terms of any agreement are likely to have allowed the creditor to assign their interest?

You're overthinking

There are many reasons why a debt can be unenforceable, Default Notice issues is one of them.

If the original creditor got that wrong then it doesn't matter if the credit agreement is compliant - you only have to win on one legal argument in court to defeat a claim.

Di

[Jollyman1]

CREATION LOAN
Date commenced 2010
Approx. balance £7,000
Date last DMP payment May 2020
Payment amount £47
Last Full payment approx. November 2017
Default:
Account owner: Lowell
Notes: Never appears to have defaulted, showing late markers for past 6 months or so
ACTIONS:

Thinking of SAR to Creation to establish if defaulted

Thanks Di and others for your help above. Have not yet sent CCA request for this one, but will get that off tomorrow. Meantime, letter received from Lowell asking to get in touch with proposal to bring arrears up to date or they will proceed to issue a DN for this one. Given that a DN is in fact desirable I guess I sit tight and wait to see their response to CCA request.

[Jollyman1]

Hi there,

About 2 1/2 years ago I finally admitted that the mountain of debt I had amassed was too much for me to continue to service every month, with minimum payments of over £1,000 just being unsustainable and further lines of credit not being available to me (that would have been a bad idea anyway, as I now appreciate). I didn't want to enter into a formal debt solution or to use a DMP provider, so set about entering into a self-managed DMP. I've continued with that since the start of 2018 notching up some ppi reclaiming successes which reduced some of my balances, but still left a very substantial figure outstanding and I've only been able to continue to pay relatively small sums to creditors over that time, although I've generally been able to make the agreed payments each month.

Fast forward to March this year and the current Coronavirus lockdown, which for me has meant working from home, fortunately still on my full salary. With being able to make some savings in terms of not travelling to work, trips out only for groceries etc. etc. and having come across this and other useful forums I realised that I should probably aim to start to save up so that in the future I might be able to make F&F offers and not be stuck paying off these debts for another 12 or 13 years.

Fortunately I came across this inspirational board on AAD and that set me thinking that I should think about seeing if any of my debts might be unenforceable, which could help me to get out of debt a whole lot quicker.

A lot of my debts are relatively recent, but having read through a lot of the posts on here I decided to send of CCA requests to a couple of them:-


CAPITAL ONE CREDIT CARD

Date commenced April 2000

Approx. balance £1,200

Date last DMP payment May 2020

Payment amount £21

Last Full payment approx. September 2017

Default: February 2018

Account owner: Cap 1

Notes:

ACTIONS:

CCA request sent May 2020
Response received 13 June 2020

I've another 5 debts that I am considering sending CCA requests for, although as these are all more recent I'm inclined to think that the creditors / DCAs involved will be able to come up with compliant paperwork.

Of the 2 that I've mentioned above you'll see that it is a waiting game with Cabot at the moment, and can only hope that they aren't able to come up with a compliant CCA from the original creditor. I'll keep the diary posted when there's any further response.

I have been thinking of posting for a few weeks, but what has prompted me to do it today is the letter that I've received from Cap 1 in response to my CCA request (well outside the 12 days +2, but I guess understandable in the current circumstances). The problem that I have is that they have sent a letter which says that it encloses a copy of a reconstituted agreement along with a scanned copy of the original signature page, but nothing was included, just the letter.

They go on to quote Carey v HSBC to say that resconstituted agreement is acceptable (which, thanks to you guys on here, I understand, but I also understand that as a pre-2007 CCA Cap 1 must show that a signed agreement did exist.

Curiously, they have also said that they've refunded the £1 fee as they don't require it for a s78 request. Again nothing was enclosed, but I can't tell if they have refunded it to the account as I don't have access to it. As I have been making payments until recently it wouldn't have much effect in terms of any eventual SB date, but so long as my CCA request made clear that the £1 was for the purpose of my request, can anybody confirm that my CCA request was still compliant?

The question is, what to do now? Do I respond and point out that nothing was enclosed with their letter or treat them as being in default of my CCA reequest as they've not provided the agreement?

Jollyman

Edited to put each debt in a separate post.

Re. my original point in bold above, any thoughts from anybody on whether it is a good idea to respond to say nothing was enclosed with C1's letter purporting to send the CCA?

[Timewilltell]

Write no more, they’ve sent what they consider to be accurate now leave them be, silence from you for now, they will soon come a begging from you.
I had a Debt purchaser pester me then pass me to their solicitors who threatens legal action (on more than one occasion) I rebuffed their initial response then kept quiet, they have no gone quiet themselves for over a year, which tells me that they have nothing of legal argument otherwise they would be barking at the courtroom door.

in this journey you need to know that if they threaten and don’t follow through then they really are just full of hot air dispersing into the air.

[Jollyman1]

Update on the Cap 1 CCA request. Having received only a letter saying that a reconstituted agreement was enclosed, about a week afterwards another copy of the same letter arrived, this time enclosing all that it claimed to. I'm glad to say that was before I'd paid another £2-odds to tell Cap 1 that they hadn't sent anything with their letter!

Anyway, it looks on the face of it to me that the recon agreement may be enforceable, however I think I will have to ask Niddy for his expert opinion, so will get it scanned and pinged through to him. Hopefully his experience in such matters will pick up on something that the novice me can't see.

[The Tech Clerk]

send copy:- webmaster@all-abou-debt.co.uk refer to this thread

[Jollyman1]

Niddy has kindly had a look at the recon CCA from Cap 1 and unfortunately it appears that it would be enforceable. Still with them, so don't hold out too much hope of a good F&F any time soon either until / unless they sell it on. Won't get too down about it, as it's one of my smaller debts. Onwards with the rest.

[Timewilltell]

Just because the CCA looks good doesn’t mean they haven’t failed in other areas that deem it UE.