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  • #16
    Thank you Spud - that’s very helpful

    Comment


    • #17
      Just a quick thought

      With PRA saying that they cannot accept offers as they don't have details of your income and expenditure etc - If they do ask ( or send you a income and expenditure form) - Then you are under no obligation to fill it in and neither would I suggest you do

      If these are deemed UE, And you decide to follow the UE process then I would certainly advise ( On the face of it) against making any sort of offers to PRA, at least until you have decided how you want to proceed

      I know its tempting to make offers and get this gone, But in my experience they rarely accept low offers and you would need to ensure that you do not acknowledge the debt going forward

      I do however completely take into account your circumstances and that the stress of this can and has affected your health etc. And of course, what is right for you has to come first so one course of action may suit one person and not another

      I can see that you are in the process of sending off CCA requests for some of the other debts so when you get the replies to these, You will be able to adjudge your position with a bit more clarity and make decisions on how you proceed

      Post up as and when you get any replies, Send those CCA replies to Niddy for checking and lets see where you are

      The members on here will help you explore the possible ways forward and get you back in control of these debts

      From what I can see, Its looking positive so far
      Last edited by Spud; 10 January 2020, 00:12.
      I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

      If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Qotn2011 View Post
        Debt 4: Lloyds
        • Overdraft
        • Been overdrawn for the best part of 20 years. Had the current account since 1985
        • £2,600
        • Last paid September 2019 (DMP)
        • Arrangement (DMP via Stepchange)
        • Default - date April 2015
        • Account owed by Link

        I did send a CCA request thinking this was the credit card but Link wrote back to me to tell me that it was not a credit card debt.

        Should I send a different CCA request for this debt?


        I've just spotted this post of yours

        No you don't need to send a different CCA Request for this ex-Lloyds overdraft.

        Link may tell you that your CCA Request wasn't appropriate because the account was an overdraft not a credit card, but a Judge has recently ruled different as Jo explains here >


        Originally posted by Joanna Connolly View Post
        The claim against our clients in this case was for monies owing under a personal Current Account Overdraft. We lost at first instance before a District Judge in Peterborough County Court and appealed the decision before HHJ Walden-Smith sitting at Cambridge County Court.

        The Appeal was successful yesterday. This is an important case because it confirms that consumers using the unenforceability provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 can successfully defend claims for personal Current Account Overdrafts in court. In this instant case the Appeal court found the personal Current Account Overdraft agreement to be unenforceable pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act because of lack of evidence of compliance with the requirements of the OFT determination.

        It was also accepted that Creditors must comply with S 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 requests relating to personal Current Account Overdrafts, not just credit cards and loans. In this case the Appeal court did find that MFS Portfolio Ltd had complied with the S 78 Consumer Credit Act request. If they hadn’t complied with the statutory request then the personal Current Account Overdraft would have been unenforceable pursuant to s.78 (6) (a) Consumer Credit Act , which is contrary to the position creditors normally take.

        The court also positively approved of the principle established in a European case ruling we put before the court that it is for the creditor to prove statutory compliance. The court did not appeove of the District Judge’s earlier decision in the lower court that our client not recalling something somehow reversed the burden of proof onto our clients and away from the Claimant.

        The appeal court also found that MFS Portfolio Ltd had not proved the Assignment to it from the original creditor.

        Di

        Comment


        • #19
          Debt 2: Mastercard
          • Credit card
          • c1994/95
          • £1,900
          • Last paid September 2019 (DMP)
          • Arrangement (DMP via Stepchange)
          • Default - date April 2014
          • Account owed by PRA




          I sent a CCA request 2017 (I think).

          I've had further communication with PRA who sent another copy of the agreement which Niddy has deemed to be UNENFORCEABLE!!!


          13/12/19 - email from PRA stating that “After careful consideration, I would advise that we are not willing to accept your offer at this time. The reason for this is we do not have enough information relating to your current finances to give us full picture of your circumstances.”. This case is also being looked at by the Disputes department.

          16/1/2020 - email from PRA Disputes department stating:

          "I note that on the 20 August 2018 we sent a letter, advising that as we are unable to supply a copy of the original agreement, the account it is unenforceable. My apologies as this was incorrect, as we had provided a reconstituted copy, which included Historic and Varied terms and conditions and short form cancellation, as such we deem the account enforceable. However, only a court can make this decision and at present we are not considering legal action. I have included a further copy of the reconstituted agreement for your records. Please the statement of account from Barclaycard is out of date, as payments have been made since they provided this."

          Also included Recon and Historic and Varied T&C

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Qotn2011 View Post
            Debt 2: Mastercard
            • Credit card
            • c1994/95
            • £1,900
            • Last paid September 2019 (DMP)
            • Arrangement (DMP via Stepchange)
            • Default - date April 2014
            • Account owed by PRA

            I sent a CCA request 2017 (I think).

            I've had further communication with PRA who sent another copy of the agreement which Niddy has deemed to be UNENFORCEABLE!!!


            16/1/2020 - email from PRA Disputes department stating:

            "I note that on the 20 August 2018 we sent a letter, advising that as we are unable to supply a copy of the original agreement, the account it is unenforceable. My apologies as this was incorrect, as we had provided a reconstituted copy, which included Historic and Varied terms and conditions and short form cancellation, as such we deem the account enforceable. However, only a court can make this decision and at present we are not considering legal action. I have included a further copy of the reconstituted agreement for your records. Please the statement of account from Barclaycard is out of date, as payments have been made since they provided this."


            That's good news

            Although PRA's letter only says "at present" they are not considering legal action - so sleep with one eye open!

            They had the option to close the account but chose not to.

            At least they conceded that only a court can decide whether a credit agreement is unenforceable.

            Di

            Comment


            • #21
              Thank you Di!

              I did smile when I read that paragraph in the email!


              Comment


              • #22


                Debt 1: Barclaycard
                • Credit card
                • c1994/95
                • £8,890
                • Last paid September 2019 (DMP)
                • Arrangement (DMP via Stepchange)
                • Default - date April 2014
                • Account owed by PRA



                I sent a CCA request 2017 (I think).

                I've had further communication with PRA who sent another copy of the agreement which Niddy has deemed to be UNENFORCEABLE!!!


                13/12/19 - email from PRA stating that “After careful consideration, I would advise that we are not willing to accept your offer at this time. The reason for this is we do not have enough information relating to your current finances to give us full picture of your circumstances.”. This case is also being looked at by the Disputes department.

                17/1/2020 - email from PRA

                "I refer to your dispute raised on 12 November 2019. We are currently awaiting further information to enable us to resolve the dispute. Be assured, the account continues to remain on hold during our investigation period.

                Please rest assured that we are committed to responding as soon as we can and will continue to provide you with regular updates as to our progress."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Qotn2011 View Post

                  Debt 1: Barclaycard
                  • Credit card
                  • c1994/95
                  • £8,890
                  • Last paid September 2019 (DMP)
                  • Arrangement (DMP via Stepchange)
                  • Default - date April 2014
                  • Account owed by PRA



                  I sent a CCA request 2017 (I think).

                  I've had further communication with PRA who sent another copy of the agreement which Niddy has deemed to be UNENFORCEABLE!!!


                  13/12/19 - email from PRA stating that “After careful consideration, I would advise that we are not willing to accept your offer at this time. The reason for this is we do not have enough information relating to your current finances to give us full picture of your circumstances.”. This case is also being looked at by the Disputes department.

                  17/1/2020 - email from PRA

                  "I refer to your dispute raised on 12 November 2019. We are currently awaiting further information to enable us to resolve the dispute. Be assured, the account continues to remain on hold during our investigation period.

                  What is the dispute you raised with PRA on 12th November last year?

                  Di

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Diana Mayhew View Post


                    What is the dispute you raised with PRA on 12th November last year?

                    Di
                    I tried to offer a reduced full and final settlement on the grounds of unenforceability.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Qotn2011 View Post

                      I tried to offer a reduced full and final settlement on the grounds of unenforceability.
                      Hopefully you weren’t too specific on why you felt they didn’t comply with your s77-79 CCA Request in case they endeavour to remedy the situation hence the “investigation” while they await “further information”.

                      If you made an offer to settle you may have sent out the signal that you accept that you owe them.

                      Post on your thread when you next hear from PRA who can be litigious, so maybe best not to give them any clues to work with.

                      Di

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Qotn2011 View Post
                        Debt 1: Barclaycard
                        • Credit card
                        • c1994/95
                        • £8,890
                        • Last paid September 2019 (DMP)
                        • Arrangement (DMP via Stepchange)
                        • Default - date April 2014
                        • Account owed by PRA



                        I sent a CCA request 2017 (I think).

                        I've had further communication with PRA who sent another copy of the agreement which Niddy has deemed to be UNENFORCEABLE!!!


                        13/12/19 - email from PRA stating that “After careful consideration, I would advise that we are not willing to accept your offer at this time. The reason for this is we do not have enough information relating to your current finances to give us full picture of your circumstances.”. This case is also being looked at by the Disputes department.

                        17/1/2020 - email from PRA

                        "I refer to your dispute raised on 12 November 2019. We are currently awaiting further information to enable us to resolve the dispute. Be assured, the account continues to remain on hold during our investigation period.

                        Please rest assured that we are committed to responding as soon as we can and will continue to provide you with regular updates as to our progress."

                        20/1/2020 - email from PRA Disputes Team

                        "I note that on 9 August 2018 we responded to you by providing a copy of the statements and the original agreement. After reviewing this, I would deem the account unenforceable, as the agreement is illegible and we have not provided either a reconstituted or a copy of historic or varied terms and conditions.
                        We have currently classified this debt as unenforceable, which means we are not able to take court or further enforcement action against you to recover the outstanding balance. Please be advised this does not mean that your debt has been written off, despite being unenforceable, we are still legally entitled to: • Contact you and ask you to repay what you owe; • Pass your details onto a third party collection agency; • Continue to report your account with the credit reference bureaux (as appropriate)."

                        Account to be placed on hold for 30 days.

                        20/1/2020 - a further email from PRA

                        "In my most recent response , I advised that the account will remain on hold for 30 days, at which point contact will resume. My apologies, as your account is being managed by our Customer Support Team, due to your health . They will contact you to discuss your account"
                        The latest from communications from PRA.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Qotn2011 View Post
                          Debt 1: Barclaycard
                          • Credit card
                          • c1994/95
                          • £8,890
                          • Last paid September 2019 (DMP)
                          • Arrangement (DMP via Stepchange)
                          • Default - date April 2014
                          • Account owed by PRA
                          13/12/19 - email from PRA stating that “After careful consideration, I would advise that we are not willing to accept your offer at this time.

                          20/1/2020 - email from PRA Disputes Team

                          "I note that on 9 August 2018 we responded to you by providing a copy of the statements and the original agreement.After reviewing this, I would deem the account unenforceable, as the agreement is illegible and we have not provided either a reconstituted or a copy of historic or varied terms and conditions.
                          We have currently classified this debt as unenforceable, which means we are not able to take court or further enforcement action against you to recover the outstanding balance.

                          20/1/2020 - a further email from PRA

                          "In my most recent response , I advised that the account will remain on hold for 30 days, at which point contact will resume. My apologies, as your account is being managed by our Customer Support Team, due to your health . They will contact you to discuss your account"

                          This is good news!

                          Not only have PRA admitted that the credit agreement is unenforceable (and other reasons) but they've also sent you an apology.

                          Maybe it was a good thing that they rejected your offer of a F & F offer last December. They've now missed the boat

                          I don't think you have anything more to discuss with them if they do contact you.

                          Di

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I am sat here smiling.

                            This is such great news. I think I can sleep with both eyes closed regarding this debt!

                            Thank you to Di, Spud and Niddy for all you advice, and to everyone else on here too.

                            You are the best!

                            Qotn

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Qotn2011 View Post
                              Debt 3: Lloyds
                              • Credit card
                              • c2008
                              • £2,200
                              • Last paid September 2019 (DMP)
                              • Arrangement (DMP via Stepchange)
                              • Default - date 2015
                              • Account owed by Westcot (or possibly Link)
                              3/2/2020 - CCA sent
                              CCA request send to Link who seem to be managing this debt now, not Westcots as previously thought


                              Have Link complied with your s77-79 CCA Request yet? If they can't or don't comply the debt will become unenforceable 'unless or until' they do comply.

                              Did you receive a Notice of Assignment from both Lloyds and Link when they were assigned this debt?

                              I suggest you send a Subject Access Request to Lloyds (it's free) so you get all the information that they hold on you for both this credit card and the overdraft (also assigned to Link).

                              That way you'll keep one step ahead of the debt purchaser.

                              Di

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Diana Mayhew View Post



                                Have Link complied with your s77-79 CCA Request yet? If they can't or don't comply the debt will become unenforceable 'unless or until' they do comply.

                                Did you receive a Notice of Assignment from both Lloyds and Link when they were assigned this debt?

                                I suggest you send a Subject Access Request to Lloyds (it's free) so you get all the information that they hold on you for both this credit card and the overdraft (also assigned to Link).

                                That way you'll keep one step ahead of the debt purchaser.

                                Di
                                Hi Di,

                                i have not received any communication from Link - the Royal Mail tracker hasn’t given any further information as to whether it was delivered or not. It shows that the item was received at the Post Office but nothing else.

                                Is it reasonable to assume that the item was delivered or not or should I resend to CCA request?

                                i have not received a Notice of Assignment in regards to these debts.

                                I will get and SAR sorted out for both these debts as soon as I can.

                                Thank you for your help so far!

                                Qotn
                                Last edited by Qotn2011; 3 March 2020, 14:55.

                                Comment

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