Lola girl UE diary...newbie!

[PlanB]

They have even agreed to backdate the default as they didn’t apply it for 9 months after I missed the first payment.

That's an added bonus!

What will be the new default date, and when will the entry fall off your CRA file (which will be six years after the registration date)?

Di

[Gerry Jemitus]

Potentially good news, but be careful how you tie them down with this - I seem to remember horror stories where debts are apparently settled 'F&F' but the remainder can get sold on unless the legalese in the agreement is specific.

Can anyone elaborate, or refer to a template letter with the required phraseology?

This maybe stems from a practice prevalent several years ago, where people would send the creditor a cheque, with 'in full and final settlement' handwritten on the back, or in a covering letter, in the belief that if the creditor cashed the cheque, they were bound to the condition. This is not the case. The creditor is entitled to take any payment from the debtor, as the debt is considered to be owed.

The creditor, in similar cases, argued that it was received by the "post room" staff who did not have any authority (actual or perceived) to compromise the debt.

However, if a third party makes the payment, that person does not owe the debt to the creditor, so the payment if accepted, is on the terms as laid out. Hence a full and final third party settlement is a better bet.

Having said that, if the creditor has specifically agreed to your terms in writing, there is no reason to expect them to break the terms. If they were to then it would constitute an unfair relationship act and the 'debtor' would be able to defend on the basis of promissory estoppel.

[PlanB]

Thanks Di - I didn’t expect them to accept as only 17% of balance

Which is probably more than they would get if they assigned/sold the account to a debt purchaser, and they'll write off the balance against tax.

So no need to feel sorry for HSBC's loss

Di

[Lola girl]

This sounds like good news to me.

You should feel pleased to get shot of this debt without the trauma of court proceedings etc. never mind who is/was right or wrong legally speaking.

The Bank of Mum and Dad has come to your rescue so you can now cross this stressful situation off your list.

I as a Mum (check out my signature below) would happily do the same, in fact I regularly do *sigh*

Di x

Thanks Di - I feel bad for asking them but it seems a really good opportunity to get one out of the way. I have the agreement for this loan and it’s not that old so I’m sure they do too. I didn’t expect them to accept as only 17% of balance but there we are. X

[PlanB]

had a bank loan with HSBC but have continued to pay this one £5 per month . . . they contacted me last week to review my payments and I cheekily offered them £1000 to settle this £6000 debt. They have just accepted today in writing and the bank of mum and dad are going to help me out. Pleased to get one out of the way.

This sounds like good news to me.

You should feel pleased to get shot of this debt without the trauma of court proceedings etc. never mind who is/was right or wrong legally speaking.

The Bank of Mum and Dad has come to your rescue so you can now cross this stressful situation off your list.

I as a Mum (check out my signature below) would happily do the same, in fact I regularly do *sigh*

Di x

[Warwick65]

Never-In-Doubt

Here is a link to some template letters
https://all-about-debt.co.uk/forum/d...rs#post1245202

Essentially you need it in writing from them with a condition that this will be full and final and will not be sold on to any third party . I never did F&F so can't give you personal experience but if it is right for you then go for it.

[Lola girl]

Potentially good news, but be careful how you tie them down with this - I seem to remember horror stories where debts are apparently settled 'F&F' but the remainder can get sold on unless the legalese in the agreement is specific.

Can anyone elaborate, or refer to a template letter with the required phraseology?

Thanks for this, I asked for it in writing.... They have confirmed in writing that it is in full and final settlement and that the balance will be nil, it will be marked as partially settled on credit file and will not be transferred or sold on. They have even agreed to backdate the default as they didn’t apply it for 9 months after I missed the first payment.

[Night Monkey]

I cheekily offered them £1000 to settle this £6000 debt. They have just accepted today...

Potentially good news, but be careful how you tie them down with this - I seem to remember horror stories where debts are apparently settled 'F&F' but the remainder can get sold on unless the legalese in the agreement is specific.

Can anyone elaborate, or refer to a template letter with the required phraseology?

[Lola girl]

Quick query - are bank loans covered by some kind of CCA? I had a loan with HSBC that was under my old DMP and I have carried on with the payment since going self managed and CCA my cards.
It is still with HSBC despite paying very low payments for the last year and I have a copy of the agreement (think around 2014). Would I be better waiting to see if it’s sold on?

Little update on this one.... I had a bank loan with HSBC but have continued to pay this one £5 per month since it defaulted back in March 2019 as my ex had his business account there, so I just set up the payment and they left me alone. However they contacted me last week to review my payments and I cheekily offered them £1000 to settle this £6000 debt. They have just accepted today in writing and the bank of mum and dad are going to help me out. Pleased to get one out of the way. So that leaves 1 enforceable, 3 unenforceable and one currently with a claim in!
Lola x

[Timewilltell]

I had an old (2003/4) MBNA one that has been sold to Arrow Guernsey, was pestered by their gorillas Dripsden Unfairfax but went quiet many moons ago when they couldn’t satisfy the CCA request-Shame!

[Lola girl]

Yes, just sit back and wait for their next move.

There's no knowing who they may assign it to, but if it's a debt purchaser who isn't FCA authorised then they shouldn't issue legal proceedings, but that probably won't stop them from trying!

Di

Hasn’t stopped Intrum has it!

[PlanB]

Hi Di - hope you are well.

I guess I just need to sit back and wait, see what they do next. As this is my only possibly enforceable one and also higher value I am just a little more nervous about the risk and expense of a court claim.
x

Yes, just sit back and wait for their next move.

There's no knowing who they may assign it to, but if it's a debt purchaser who isn't FCA authorised then they shouldn't issue legal proceedings, but that probably won't stop them from trying!

Di

[Lola girl]

I'm pretty sure MBNA will assign this debt soon too. Their collection process has been the usual pattern with the usual suspects (CRAs) pursuing you. When one runs out of steam (template letters) the baton is passed to another CRA.

You say the credit agreement is enforceable but I see from your post that Niddy also cast doubt on the overall validity of the response.

The credit agreement isn't the only reason for a debt to be unenforceable in court which PRA discovered when they issued a claim against me and lost as you can see from this post by Jo >





Di

Hi Di - hope you are well.

I guess I just need to sit back and wait, see what they do next. As this is my only possibly enforceable one and also higher value I am just a little more nervous about the risk and expense of a court claim. Maybe if it’s sold on now after 3 years a CCA to the new owner may bring up something entirely different!
x

[PlanB]

I am pretty sure that MBNA must be getting close to selling this one on. The agreement was deemed enforceable and it’s one of the largest ones.
Does anyone have any experience with MBNA?
lola x

I'm pretty sure MBNA will assign this debt soon too. Their collection process has been the usual pattern with the usual suspects (CRAs) pursuing you. When one runs out of steam (template letters) the baton is passed to another CRA.

You say the credit agreement is enforceable but I see from your post that Niddy also cast doubt on the overall validity of the response.

The credit agreement isn't the only reason for a debt to be unenforceable in court which PRA discovered when they issued a claim against me and lost as you can see from this post by Jo >

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGNMENT PROVED”


So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

Di

[Lola girl]

• Type of account: MBNA C/ C
• Date commenced: 9.1.14
• Approx balance: £7k
• Date last paid: Aug 2018
• Are you on arrangement: DMP
• Status: Default 25.3.19
• Account owner: O/C

CCA request 30/7/19 - no response as yet

15/8/19 - letter from Moorcroft saying they have asked the OC for the relevant documents. They advise also that they are not seeking to ‘enforce’ the agreement, they are only asking me to make an affordable repayment towards an outstanding debt. Very nice of them! Guess I just cancel the StepChange payment and wait to hear from them

28/8/19 letter received from Moorcroft with 2 years of statements and an agreement. Sent over to Niddy to be checked.

30/8/19. Enforceable....however Niddy advises that it isn’t a lawful s78 response. Advised to do nothing.

28/9/19 x5 phone calls / texts from Moorcroft this week, all ignored but they managed to catch me on the last one, I said I would not discuss anything over phone so could they please remove number and write only in future.

2/10/19 received two letters from Moorcroft. First one giving me 7 days to make arrangement to pay. The second one advising that stepchange have cancelled payments so would I contact them to discuss.

28/10/19 letter from Moorcroft stating they are concerned I’ve not been in touch. Would I like to pay the outstanding by instalments? I have 7 days to respond. Filed

12/11/19 letter from Moorcroft, concerned I have failed to set up repayment plan. Advise if I do not contact in 7 days they may continue to contact me, send a home visit or continue adverse entry on credit report. Filed
23/11/19 letter from Moorcroft - they have passed my account to the 'Home Collections Dept' and this MAY involve a local representative calling at my home to help me reconnect and establish my circumstances. If I want to avoid this I can contact them to arrange to pay by 02/12/19. Their client may be able to offer a substantial discount! Filed and ignored
06/01/20 Discount offer letter from Moorcroft - to prevent the possibility of further recovery action being taken the client may be able to offer a substantial discount, if I pay an acceptable lump sum within 14 days they will not pursue the remaining balance. Filed and ignored.
05/02/20 - Good News letter from Moorcroft - if I telephone them today I can have either an interest free repayment plan or a substantial discount! Filed and ignored
18/02/20 Statement received directly from MBNA, confirmation 22/08/19 was last payment made to them
20/01/21- annual statement received directly from MBNA
30/1/21 - letter from MBNA, account collection now passed to Wescot Credit Services Ltd.....here we go again.
9/4/21 - letter from wescot asking me to pay. Also postcard from them asking me to ring. Filed and ignored
11/4/21 - letter from wescot, enquiries show i live at this address but they haven’t heard from me. Filed
21/4/21 - letter from wescot reduced settlement on offer. Filed and ignored. Also texts arriving every few days, all deleted.
09/05/21 letter from wescot - giving me an opportunity to take control of balance. Also daily calls and texts all ignored.
21/5/21 letter from 2f ? Titled Confirmation of residency. Says that MBNA will take further steps to re-establish contact if I do not speak to them. 2f is trading name for wescot. Filed and ignored.

I am pretty sure that MBNA must be getting close to selling this one on. The agreement was deemed enforceable and it’s one of the largest ones.
Does anyone have any experience with MBNA?
lola x