HOIST FINANCE UK HOLDINGS 3 LIMITED

[NotMartinLewis]

It’s interesting isn’t it that Lowell bought Hoist but are not prepared to go with what Hoist (or RW) said. - yeah I thought something similar.... kind of why I didn't think / take advice and just sent the DSAR / CCA requests in July 2023 - lesson learnt.

Another tack might be to send a complaint to Lowell saying that Hoist had already admitted the account was UE and as such CONC clearly says they should acknowledge this CONC13.1.6 (8). Then add you will be happy to take this to the FOS. - interesting, its very clear from DSAR response that they were in possession of this information. Will get onto this first thing tomorrow.

Get this off asap as the shouldn’t issue a claim while there is a valid dispute

A lot depends on how strong you feel but if you worked in financial services I guess you are no walkover. - see below and make up your own mind )

Let us know what you decide

By the way, if a claim is issued, you defend you should be asked for mediation. Provided both sides agree you can then make an offer- maybe say you want to drawer a line under this so how about a tenner? - Did actually make a few settlement offers to Robinson Way back in 2021 I believe - all were ignored except last one were the reply asked for a lot of personal financial info so I ignored it. [Note: DSAR to LLoyds (orig creditor) uncovered evidence that I had informed them I was vulnerable and tried to settle my debt prior to them selling it on. Compensation was paid which I still have as a fund for settling (or engaging a solicitor) if necessary. Lloyds did offer to buy back the debt but baulked at my response of 'only if you write the whole lot off' as Rob Way had already declared it unenforceable by this point.]

sorry on an iPad at the moment as in a rather chilly Cracow ( or Krakow), fully of bloody tourists. - enjoy and thank you for taking the time out to reply while away

I think sometimes you just need to be a pain in the butt so they don’t want the aggravation.

comments in red above. thanks.

[NotMartinLewis]

In my opinion you should immediately send the forms back saying you intend to defend the case ( that’s tick box D) and if you like cite MFS portfolio v Phelan and West where it was held that a S78 request is valid for a current account.

Then ask for
A copy of the agreement
The default notice
The term8nation notice
The deed and notice of assignment ( all of them) it has been assigned twice now).

Hopefully that will keep them quite for a while

If they do issue a claim you can negotiate with a Tomlin order to prevent a ccj

Thanks for the reply. I'm definitely going to reply (I will email scanned copies & send paper copies recorded delivery as I've left things very late now) and will make sure the response references the MFS portfolio v Phelan and West case and that the docs you listed are requested.

In response to your other post - you are right, I don't want to end up in court. Aside from anything else its likely to be quicker, cheaper and a lot less stressful to settle the claim with Lowell than fight the case..... its just that that will feel like they won.

Thank you for the reply

[NotMartinLewis]

Hi

A few points of interest here.
Just to clarify - is this a formal Letter Before Action, which encloses a multi-page reply form? Yes, it appears to be.

It seems this is the account commented on at post #19 by JCS - "This is good news - Robinson Way (on behalf of Hoist) have admitted that the debt is unenforceable. This is particularly pleasing since it was an overdraft which some debt owners try to say are not covered by s77-79 CCA." - Yes that is correct

No doubt you still have that letter from Robinson Way ?? - Yes

Were you advised to send another CCA74 request to Lowell, notwithstanding that you already had that letter from RW? - No, I stuffed this bit up all on my own before I made my July 2023 post here (and have been kicking myself since reading the responses)

Your diary timeline doesn't say what the Lowell response to your DSAR was? - They complied with the request. Data received on 25.07.2023 including: what looks like a copy of my administration/contact record, account level data, sales file data & copies of correspondence between myself and Hoist / Robinson Way prior to the reassignment from Hoist to Lowell (including a copy of the 18.07.2020 letter from Robinson Way stating the debt was not currently enforceable). will update diary to include this now.


Regarding Lowell's comments about sections 77-78 CCA74, my understanding is that section 78 relates to running-account credit agreements, and that these include credit cards, store cards, authorized overdrafts. The provisions in section 78A include specifically an authorized non-business overdraft agreement https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...39/section/78A

It seems there could also be issues with the assignment chain from Lloyds to Hoist to Lowell. - yes this was noted in a previous response but I'm not sure I fully understand the issue (or how to use it as a defence when replying to the letter of claim) at present.

Perhaps you should have a (free) consultation with JCS, if this is a formal Letter Before Action. - I think that might be a sensible next step. Will try to make that happen tomorrow.

See responses in red - thank you.

[Dottir]

It’s interesting isn’t it that Lowell bought Hoist but are not prepared to go with what Hoist (or RW) said.

Another tack might be to send a complaint to Lowell saying that Hoist had already admitted the account was UE and as such CONC clearly says they should acknowledge this CONC13.1.6 (8). Then add you will be happy to take this to the FOS.

Get this off asap as the shouldn’t issue a claim while there is a valid dispute

A lot depends on how strong you feel but if you worked in financial services I guess you are no walkover.

Let us know what you decide

By the way, if a claim is issued, you defend you should be asked for mediation. Provided both sides agree you can then make an offer- maybe say you want to drawer a line under this so how about a tenner?

sorry on an iPad at the moment as in a rather chilly Cracow ( or Krakow), fully of bloody tourists.

I think sometimes you just need to be a pain in the butt so they don’t want the aggravation.

[Still Waving]

Hi

A few points of interest here.
Just to clarify - is this a formal Letter Before Action, which encloses a multi-page reply form?

It seems this is the account commented on at post #19 by JCS - "This is good news - Robinson Way (on behalf of Hoist) have admitted that the debt is unenforceable. This is particularly pleasing since it was an overdraft which some debt owners try to say are not covered by s77-79 CCA."

No doubt you still have that letter from Robinson Way ??

Were you advised to send another CCA74 request to Lowell, notwithstanding that you already had that letter from RW?

Your diary timeline doesn't say what the Lowell response to your DSAR was?


Regarding Lowell's comments about sections 77-78 CCA74, my understanding is that section 78 relates to running-account credit agreements, and that these include credit cards, store cards, authorized overdrafts. The provisions in section 78A include specifically an authorized non-business overdraft agreement https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...39/section/78A

It seems there could also be issues with the assignment chain from Lloyds to Hoist to Lowell.

Perhaps you should have a (free) consultation with JCS, if this is a formal Letter Before Action.

[Dottir]

Frankly you need to try and keep this out of court. Even the most winnable case can be lost by a grumpy or ill informed judge and appeals are high risk and potentially expensive if you do lose.

AAD always used to say avoid court at almost any cost.

[Dottir]

In my opinion you should immediately send the forms back saying you intend to defend the case ( that’s tick box D) and if you like cite MFS portfolio v Phelan and West where it was held that a S78 request is valid for a current account.

Then ask for
A copy of the agreement
The default notice
The term8nation notice
The deed and notice of assignment ( all of them) it has been assigned twice now).

Hopefully that will keep them quite for a while

If they do issue a claim you can negotiate with a Tomlin order to prevent a ccj

[NotMartinLewis]

Lloyds Current Account (Overdraft) à Hoist à Lowell

Original Account opened at Lloyds: 20 October 2003
Default date for original account: 15.04.2016
Debt subsequently assigned to Hoist Finance UK Holdings 3 Limited: 28.11.2019
Debt subsequently assigned to Lowell Portfolio I Limited (LPI): 03.04.2023
Current Balance: £2,117.89
Last payment made: £2 in March 2020 / £10 in April 2020.

Status: Letter of claim received from Overdale Solicitors (acting on behalf of Lowell Portfolio I Ltd). Failure to respond in 30 days will result in a County Court Claim.

03.01.2020...Letter from Hoist Finance UK – notice of assignment of debt/account to Hoist Finance UK Holdings 3 Limited and that Robinson Way are appointed to manage my debt – ignored
03.01.2020...Letter from LLoyds. – confirms debt/account transferred to Hoist Finance UK Holdings 3 Limited and that Robinson Way are appointed to manage my debt – ignored
03.01.2020...Letter from Robinson Way. Offered £1,810.41 to settle £2,129.89 debt – ignored 20.01.2020...Letter from Robinson Way. Confirming appointment / request I contact them – ignored 05.02.2020...Letter from Robinson Way. Requested I get in touch & put in place a payment plan.– ignored
11.02.2020...Letter from Robinson Way. Confirming appointment / request I contact them – ignored
06.03.2020...Letter from Robinson Way. Requested I get in touch & put in place a payment plan.– ignored
10.03.2020…Emails to Hoist Finance UK / Robinson Way. DSAR sent.
20.03.2020…Email from Robinson Way. Confirming online account set up.
20.03.2020…£2 payment made to Robinson Way (either online or over telephone)
27.03.2020…Email from hoist Finance UK. DSAR acknowledged.
29.03.2020…Email from hoist Finance UK. DSAR response received.
01.04.2020...Letter from Robinson Way. Offered £1,595.92 to settle £2,127.89 debt – ignored
14.04.2020...Email from Robinson Way. Offered £1,595.92 to settle £2,127.89 debt – ignored
30.04.2020...Letter from Robinson Way. Confirms Payment (£10) received. Requested I get in touch & put in place a payment plan. – ignored
18.05.2020...Letter sent to Robinson Way. CCA request made.
19.05.2020…Letter from Robinson Way. Acknowledgement of CCA request
18.06.2020…Letter from Robinson Way. Update on CCA request – still awaiting response from original creditor
18.07.2020...Letter from Robinson Way. Unable to fulfil my information request thereat this time my account is currently unenforceable. Credit file entries in relation to this account will be removed. Reminds me that the balance remains outstanding and request that I get in touch to agree a repayment plan – ignored
13.05.2021…Email to Robinson Way. Offered £100 to settle debt. – No response received
05.06.2021…Email to Robinson Way. Chase response to 13.05.2021 settlement offer. – No response received
06.07.2021…Email to Robinson Way. Chase response to 13.05.2021 settlement offer. – No response received
29.07.2021…Email to Robinson Way. Offered £90 to settle debt. – No response received
13.09.2021…Email to Robinson Way. Offered £80 to settle debt. – No response received
23.09.2021…Letter from Hoist. Response to my recent offer for a reduced settlement requesting I complete their customer financial statement – ignored
14.04.2022...Letter from Hoist. Offered £1440.07 to settle £2,117.89 debt if accepted by 26.05.2022 – ignored
09.05.2022...Letter from Hoist. Offered £1440.07 to settle £2,117.89 debt if accepted by 26.05.2022 – ignored
28.04.2023...Letter from Hoist Finance UK – confirms debt/account transferred to Lowell Portfolio I Ltd and that Lowell Financial Ltd are appointed to manage my debt – ignored
28.04.2023...Letter from Lowell - confirms debt/account transferred to Lowell Portfolio I Ltd and that Lowell Financial Ltd are appointed to manage my debt – ignored
09.05.2023…Email from Lowell ‘We’re not what you’d expect’ – ignored
18.05.2023…Email from Lowell ‘We’ve been trying to connect with you’ – ignored
23.05.2023…Email from Lowell ‘let us know how we can help’ – ignored
30.05.2023...Letter from Lowell ‘set up an interest free payment plan’ – ignored
02.06.2023…Email from Lowell ‘We’re here to make things easier’ – ignored
07.06.2023…Email from Lowell ‘We’ve been trying to connect with you’ – ignored
13.06.2023...Letter from Lowell ‘you have not contacted us’ – ignored
21.06.2023…Letters to Lowell – DSAR / CCA request letters
23.06.2023…Email from Lowell ‘We’re here to make things easier’ – ignored
27.06.2023...Letter from Lowell – Acknowledgement of CCA request – ignored
25.07.2023…Letter from Lowell – Response to DSAR providing copy of my administration/contact record, account level data, sales file data & copies of correspondence between myself and Hoist / Rob way prior to the assignment of the debt from Hoist to Lowell (including a copy of the 18.07.2020 letter from Robinson Way stating the debt was not currently enforceable).
20.10.2023…Letter from Lowell – Response to CCA request stating there was no requirement to supply a copy of the agreement for current bank accounts under sections 77 & 78 of the CCA1974. Provided basic account information and a statement of account covering 07.02.2012 to 12.04.2016. Letter states ‘we understand the balance outstanding is valid and owing.’ (interesting wording there) – ignored
01.12.2023…Email from Lowell ‘you’ve not responded’ (legal action threatened) – ignored
04.12.2023...Letter from Lowell ‘we’re considering legal action’ – ignored
08.12.2023…Email from Lowell ‘our next steps’ (legal action threatened) – ignored
01.12.2023…Email from Lowell ‘we are considering taking legal action’ – ignored
19.12.2023...Letter from Lowell outlining ‘what legal action means’ – ignored
28.12.2023…Email from Lowell ‘what legal action means’ – ignored
29.12.2023…Email from Lowell ‘it’s not too late to avoid legal action’ – ignored
04.01.2024...Letter from Lowell outlining ‘the impact of legal action’ – ignored
25.02.2024...Letter from Lowell dated 15.02.2024. We’ve passed your account to Overdales Legal Ltd
25.02.2024...Letter from Overdales Solicitors dated 15.02.2024. Notice of acting for Lowell Portfolio I Ltd
05.03.2024...Letter of claim dated 26.02.2024 received from Overdale Solicitors (on behalf of Lowell Portfolio I Ltd). No action taken so far. Letter states that failure to respond within 30 days of the date of letter will result in a county court claim.

[NotMartinLewis]

Hello everyone.

Please can I ask (once more) for your help/advice.

I have received a letter of claim from Overdales Solicitors acting on behalf of Lowell Portfolio 1 Ltd. The letter of claim was dated 26.02.2024 (but I didn't receive it until 05.03.2024) - I need to respond by 27.03.2024.

I will post an undated diary entry after this post as requested in response to my last post.

Also looking back at the July 2023 posts and responses I have to confess that I had sent a s78 CCA request to Lowell at the same time I sent the DSAR (see my 1 July 2023 post) - someone subsequently advised against this on 3 July 2023. Lowells response stated there was no requirement to supply a copy of the agreement for current bank accounts under sections 77 & 78 of the CCA1974. Provided basic account information and a statement of account covering 07.02.2012 to 12.04.2016. Letter stated ‘we understand the balance outstanding is valid and owing.’) This was the only contact I have had with Lowell thus far. All subsequent letters / emails from them were ignored by me.

Unsure at present how to proceed - my financial situation is not great (lost my carers benefit last week following the death of the person I cared for in January. Had been doing that 8 years and as yet have not managed to secure paid work).

Ideally I would like to go to court but to lose and have a CCJ go against my name at this point could be really difficult for me (worked previously in financial services so CCJs can prevent me getting jobs).

Any help or advice anyone has you be appreciated.

Thanks

[Roger]

I have copies of everything, including SAR responses from LLoyds / Hoist & Robinson Way from May 2020. I guess part of why I sent the SAR to Lowell was to see if they had a copy of that letter but still threatened me with court action regardless.

But
https://all-about-debt.co.uk/forum/d...18#post1536118
"..
"..
31 July 2020, 08:00
Originally posted by NotMartinLewis View Post
I sent off a s77-79 request to Robinson Way back in May and eventually got a letter back confirming they could not provide the information requested and as such my debt is currently unenforceable.
The letter reminded me that despite the debt being unenforceable it remains outstanding and requests that I get in touch to set up a payment plan or agree a settlement.
.."
This is good news - Robinson Way (on behalf of Hoist) have admitted that the debt is unenforceable. This is particularly pleasing since it was an overdraft which some debt owners try to say are not covered by s77-79 CCA.

In some ways that letter is asking you to make voluntary payments towards an unenforceable debt.

It's up to you what you do next, but since they can't enforce the debt there's not much they can do to you except write more letters.

If they eventually source the credit agreement then reconsider your stance but from what you've said this may be a 'pigs will fly' situation

Di
.."

In the Past we would have sent Lowell a Sold whilst in dispute Letter!
DO NOT SEND a s.78 request to Lowell
You have this Assignment Chain from Hoist Finance UK Holdings 3 Limited (Not on FCA Register to Lowell Lowell Portfolio I Ltd (are Authorised)
If Hoist Finance UK Holdings 3 Limited were NOT Authorised they can't pass a Good Title to Lowell!

The Advice in the last few years is SILENCE !
Lowell have to send you a Letter Before Claim before they can Sue

In the meantime please update your Diary entry as this helps you and AAD without having to trawl back through 24 entries.

[NotMartinLewis]

I have copies of everything, including SAR responses from LLoyds / Hoist & Robinson Way from May 2020. I guess part of why I sent the SAR to Lowell was to see if they had a copy of that letter but still threatened me with court action regardless.

[Pat]

Do you have the letter from RW?

You might, depending on what it says, want to send a copy to Lowell

[Still Waving]

Hi

Well I would not have sent a SAR to Lowell, I would have sent it to Lloyds. I doubt Lowell had any knowledge concerning your individual account when they bought it as part of a job lot of under-performing debts from Hoist.

Only a court can rule definitively that a debt is unenforceable, though a creditor can admit that they don't have the relevant compliant documentation. Is this only a threat of court action at the present time, eg we are considering taking out court proceedings?

[NotMartinLewis]

Hi everyone. Its been a while.... I hope everyone is good.

The debt that I first opened this post about was assigned to Lowell Portfolio I Ltd on 28/04/2023.

The letters (from Lowell Financial Ltd who now manage my account) have been arriving thick and fast since then. I was doing a good job of ignoring them until the last one threatened me with court action. I found this a little odd given that Robinson Way had (on behalf of Hoist) admitted that my debt was unenforceable back in May 2020.

Could anyone please help / advise me as to whether the sale reassignment of my debt from Hoist to Lowell would make any difference to the 'unenforceable' status of my debt?

I've sent a DSAR to Lowell to see what information they were provided by Hoist. In particular, whether they had awareness that the Hoist debt was 'unenforceable' when they purchased it and then threatened legal action. If they did, does this count as harassment

Do I need to send another CCA s77-79 request to Lowell Portfolio I Ltd and get the debt declared as unenforceable again?

Any other help or advice gratefully appreciated.

Thanks

[nightwatch]

HI NML, Hope you are well as you can see we are back. jut a quick check in to see if you have any updates?