What to do when your account is Assigned?

[bobogosing]

Re: What to do when your account is Assigned?

Thank you garlok!!

Another thing that's been baffling me.

For eg, the account no (the 16 nos on cc) with MBNA, in early days when they were pursuing the balance , it matches to the cc statements. Then, when they passed it to AIC and Arrow, the 16 nos is different.

I just wondered, would they know its still the same account even though the account no is different?

Thanks again in advance. bobo x

[PlanB]

Re: What to do when your account is Assigned?

TAnother thing that's been baffling me.

For eg, the account no (the 16 nos on cc) with MBNA, in early days when they were pursuing the balance , it matches to the cc statements. Then, when they passed it to AIC and Arrow, the 16 nos is different.

I just wondered, would they know its still the same account even though the account no is different?

Oscar used to work for MBNA and he's posted that they usually assign a new number to your account when they sell it - or indeed give it away to be more precise

[PlanB]

Re: What to do when your account is Assigned?

There does not have to be any "legal" declaration to you. Either party to the sale can just notify you. There is NO prescribed format for a NoA. Thats it done deal they have told you. You will not get a sight of the Deed of Assignment in this day and age probbaly only under the CPR if it goes to court.

Garlok am I right in thinking that although the seller/purchaser of the account doesn't have to provide the debtor with a formal NOA, that document still has to exist otherwise the new 'owner' doesn't have the right to enforce? Paul hinted at that on Fribourg's thread in the protected section

[garlok]

Re: What to do when your account is Assigned?

There has to be a "Deed of Assignment" and a "Deed of Sale" in existance but you are very unlikely to get sight of it or indeed a copy of it. Thats why I passed comment about trying to get sight via CPR if it ever comes to that.

And you are right about the account numbers game. Niddy and I had a discussion on here a while back, maybe in my diaries about this. It is basically irrelevant he says as they all do it. Both of the ones of ours which have been sold now bear different account numbers. On the first one that came through we got the sols to give the purchaser a rollicking and make a clear and unequivocal statement as to the origin. They came back as did BC to them stating that the new numbered account equated to the original number we had had for about 25 years.

I think its an underhand ploy actually to try to fool you and get you to acknowledge the debt by mistake. But thats just me.

regards
Garlok

[alland]

Re: What to do when your account is Assigned?

I have also received notifice of Assignment from Arrows Global today in respect of two of my MBNA accounts
1. Sony Mastercard Card
2. Alliance & Leicester Mastercard Card

In both cases following my CCA requests in 2010, I received copies of my signed application forms and a set of T&C, But along with them, I also received letters from MBNA regarding both accounts stating that as they had been unable to supply complete agreements, they would not be issuing court proceedings to recover the amount owed. But - I was still liable for the debts, and they would still pursue for payment.

Since then the accounts have been passed around various DCA's, who I have successfully seen off up to now with "account in dispute letters", including Fredricksons International.
However the Arrows assignment letters inform me that it is Fredricksons who they have appointed to manage the accounts.

So it looks like I will have to begin the whole fending off process again with Fredricksons.

I was looking at the Arrows Global letters with a view of writing directly to them with the "Account sold while in Dispute" template. But all I can see by way of an address for them is in Guernsey, (their Registered Office address), which I doubt will be their admin address, but likely to just be their accountants address.

Edit: Oh and as Garlok discusses in his post above, both my accounts have brand new account numbers as well ....The Arrows letters point this out - "To use for future payments"....

[garlok]

Re: What to do when your account is Assigned?

I'm sure someone posted it up recently AllanD. But i can't remeber where at the moment. I think that most folks contact the Guernsey address.

regards
Garlok

[alland]

Re: What to do when your account is Assigned?

I'm sure someone posted it up recently AllanD. But i can't remeber where at the moment. I think that most folks contact the Guernsey address.

regards
Garlok

Cheers mate, I will do a bit of digging around.

[garlok]

Re: What to do when your account is Assigned?

Hi allanD,

Just had a look around my system and I don't have their details in my DCA Hall of Shame. However something I thought I had a copy of from 2009 was a list prpeared by the dreaded CAG. They ran a "Naming and Shaming" thread of any DCA you came across. Perhaps one of the remaining members like Shep or P1 might be able to pop back and get the details.

regards
Garlok

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: What to do when your account is Assigned?

I was looking at the Arrows Global letters with a view of writing directly to them with the "Account sold while in Dispute" template. But all I can see by way of an address for them is in Guernsey, (their Registered Office address), which I doubt will be their admin address, but likely to just be their accountants address.

Why mate?

See it's threads like this that really piss me off cos they not only confuse matters but it causes a whole host of panic that is totally unnecessary.

You already have confirmation of no CCA so IF and WHEN the new DCA writes to you chasing payment it is at that point, and no sooner, that you then send a photocopy of the letter from last time round confirming they cannot and will not take action and you send it with one of these: ---> Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | CCA Query - Letter Previously Confirming No CCA

What the hell is going on here? WE NEVER EVER RESPOND TO UNSOLICITED MAIL from DCA's. Thus until the new DCA (arrow or whoever) writes you do not respond.

How difficult is this to understand?

[PlanB]

Re: What to do when your account is Assigned?

I knew that

[garlok]

Re: What to do when your account is Assigned?

Hi Niddy,

I think your post above is a little strong and I obviously WRONGLY thought the matter was still under discussion following Paul's input over recent days. There is another thread where legal discussion to all intents and purposes has been summarily closed down with the removal of a post and now this.

My certain knowledge of Arrow is that their European operations are head-quartered in Guernsey and a number of people actually respond to an address in Guernsey. They have used an agent here on the UK mainland by the name of Apex to "manage" their affairs in the past. To respond to them initially after a debt sale I would see as a waste because they are in effect just a DCA with no legal standing whatsoever. Hence it is my argument that when the time comes it is the concern that DOES have legal status and authority in the matter that receives the initial explanation of the situation, NOT their agents with NO legal status.

This is the procedural material that will provide a proper trail of evidence, should heaven forbid, it be needed.

regards
Garlok

[alland]

Re: bobogosing's UE diary

#1

Fair enough. Thanks Paul for taking the time to explain this point. Based on the fact you're right and you're who we refer people to, I'll agree and suggest we start sending a sold in dispute or other relevant acknowledgement letter, in such instances. We can adapt for future cases, and I'll encourage it.

* I'll add a new acknowledgement template later in the week *

#2

See it's threads like this that really piss me off cos they not only confuse matters but it causes a whole host of panic that is totally unnecessary.

What the hell is going on here? WE NEVER EVER RESPOND TO UNSOLICITED MAIL from DCA's. Thus until the new DCA (arrow or whoever) writes you do not respond.

How difficult is this to understand?

Sorry for getting your bood pressure up Niddy, but after reading your post (#1 quote above), I understood it to believe we should now acknowledge a "sold on debt" with the new owner.

However your post (#2 quote above) appears that your stance has now changed back to your original view that we ignore until such time the new owner makes their intensions known ?

[mk_chatham]

Re: What to do when your account is Assigned?

Hi

Hope that this doesn't confuse anyone , and is not meant as criticism of anyone's views but is just a record of what I did when my debt was assigned.

The account was a Marbles credit card. I had a letter from Marbles confirming that they did not have a copy of the CCA aka "the golden letter".

Letter received from Marbles - account has been sold to Capquest Investments.

Letter received from Capquest Investments who stated they had bought the debt from Marbles and that all correspondence and payments should be sent to Capquest Debt Recovery, obviously their in house DCA.

Letter received from Capquest Debt Recovery - "pay up or else"

Sent "Letter Previously Confirming No CCA" with a copy of the Marbles golden letter - to the DCA, Capquest Debt Recovery, by return.

After a couple more letters, "we bought the debt in good faith" , "looking into your complaint", "we will respond in 28 days"

Received a letter apologising, stating that account is now closed, will not be pursuing recovery. Upon checking with the CRAs the account has now gone from all three reports.

At no time did I write to the new owners of the debt - Capquest Investments.

As to whether Capquest Investments will eventually sell this on, who knows ? If they do I will follow what I did before as it worked for me last time.

As I said earlier, this is what I did. I waited until the new DCA wrote to me, replied with the appropriate template, by return, and eventually got the result that I think we all want.

Hopefully all those with debts recently assigned will be lucky and get similar results.

Good luck

MK

[PlanB]

Re: bobogosing's UE diary

#1 #2

Sorry for getting your bood pressure up Niddy, but after reading your post (#1 quote above), I understood it to believe we should now acknowledge a "sold on debt" with the new owner.

However your post (#2 quote above) appears that your stance has now changed back to your original view that we ignore until such time the new owner makes their intensions known ?

^^^^ Alland, wasn't Niddy's quote #1 in relation to bobogosings' MBNA account which is where it may be unwise to steer too close to the wind with a creditor who already knows that and so has already won the argument effectively

The mantra on this site is *one size doesn't fit all* which has to be taken on board before deciding when to speak up and when to shut up in response to a letter


PS would a kind mod tidy up my post to put that quote at the top in a grey box because the embarassment of not being able to do this myself and the ensuing public humiliation is killing me

[nightwatch]

Re: bobogosing's UE diary

Wow that's all good news for you MK

You won't find my UE diary because I didn't start one. I have 23 creditors and that is enough to drive Niddy and the mods crazy so I've been going it alone following the template letters and generally stalking Paul with his posts here there and everywhere. Actually it's been quite empowering to DIY it I'm coming up to my first birthday of UE so maybe I'll start a thread then but I'm a bit embarrassed at the magnitude of my debts and (believe it or not) I'm a really rather shy person so may remain under the radar for now

PlanB

you should see my diary list, took me ages to type up, and will cost a fortune to send all CCA's
but i live in hope, where at the moment the sun is shining
NW xx