Northern Rock v UltimateWorrie

[Riz]

Re: Northern Rock v UltimateWorrier

(2)
Regulations may make provision about the form and content of statementsunder this section

The Consumer Credit (Information Requirements and Duration of Licences and Charges) Regulations 2007

[gravytrain]

Re: Northern Rock v UltimateWorrier

The Consumer Credit (Information Requirements and Duration of Licences and Charges) Regulations 2007

Well done that man, I couldn't find them.

From what ihave read it seems that this was the problem ?

3. Information specific to the agreement—

(a)a description of the agreement sufficient to identify it;

(b)the amount of credit provided and, where applicable, to be provided under the agreement (shown as one figure);

[ken100464]

Re: Northern Rock v UltimateWorrier

You would have thought they should be able to get that right.

Wonder if this will help the OP

[gravytrain]

Re: Northern Rock v UltimateWorrier

It depends if it applies to his account, if it does it should be credited to his account.

Also I believe they are not allowed to enforce whilst in breach of the requirement.

[UltimateWorrie]

Re: Northern Rock v UltimateWorrier

I do feel slight guilt with the guys who play fair, but that lasts for all of 10 minutes lol

I don't know if this may be of interest.

BBC News - Northern Rock will repay £270m to loan customers

yeah, that was well weird, as I just read about that shortly after starting thread. i've requested CCA today and gonna request SAR too to check I fit or not. I have kept some decent records for these but can't see any statements until Feb 2009 (but they maybe around the house though).

I believe the rebates are due to none compliance with the new(ish) regulations in the CCA 2006.

Section 77A states that certain information should be included within the annual agreements, and furthermore that if this is not then the creditor cannot claim interest for the period of none compliance.

If true, his is an interesting development in my opinion and i wonder how many other loans this applies to

does that mean it only applies to loans taken out after April 2007

It would be brilliant if this applied to them all. Seen it a few times where no statements but still wanting interest.

However and this is the big however. The taxpayer you me and everyone who keeps baling these shysters out will have to cough up as usual.

Can you see any of the leeches that we deal with day in day out having the same eureka moment that actually they are going to do the right thing for a change even if the bottom line is dented?????

They tend to believe themselves above the law so why comply with the law

I wasn't aware that there were regulations relating to the form and content of annual statements, I was under the impression that the sanction only applied if the statements were not sent.

I don't suppose anyone knows where they are, I certainly would like to examine my own statements to see if they comply.

me too

It would be interesting to know what NRAM have found.

You can bet your last dollar if it was NR private company they wouldnt be so forthcoming.

And like you its the non sending of annual statements and the charging of interest I was alluding to in my post.

you never received any either than, maybe my annual statements aren't somewhere round the house and they never sent them.

Hmmm

“77A
Statements to be provided in relation to fixed-sum credit agreements
(1)
The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed-sum credit—
(a)
shall, within the period of one year beginning with the day after theday on which the agreement is made, give the debtor a statement underthis section; and
(b)
after the giving of that statement, shall give the debtor furtherstatements under this section at intervals of not more than one year.
(2)
Regulations may make provision about the form and content of statementsunder this section

Thanks

What the hell does that mean?

More to the point how the hell did NRAM jump from having normal accounts to having accounts they must pay the interest back on??????

I know they did a lot of changing over round that time as I kept the company restructuring letters they sent me. I don't know if during the changeover things went missing or lost etc,..hence my CCA to them today.

The Consumer Credit (Information Requirements and Duration of Licences and Charges) Regulations 2007

good stuff buddy, saves my own research time, I'll have a look into that.

Well done that man, I couldn't find them.

From what ihave read it seems that this was the problem ?

3. Information specific to the agreement—

(a)a description of the agreement sufficient to identify it;

(b)the amount of credit provided and, where applicable, to be provided under the agreement (shown as one figure);

can't say that applies to me with the info I do have but then there's statements for 2007 and 2008 missing

You would have thought they should be able to get that right.

Wonder if this will help the OP

looking into it Ken

It depends if it applies to his account, if it does it should be credited to his account.

Also I believe they are not allowed to enforce whilst in breach of the requirement.

yep, gonna look into it but may take some time. Cheers.

I'm interested in my token payment being accepted at £1 too, without expiry date.

Cheers all
UW

[gravytrain]

Re: Northern Rock v UltimateWorrier

It applies to all agreements if they are current,( i think also if they are defaulted and terminated(arguable)), as long as they are regulated which is why the ones executed before 2008 would have to be below 25K.

I believe that this only applies to NR accounts where the account number is not in a 16 digit format, if that helps.

[UltimateWorrie]

Re: Northern Rock v UltimateWorrier

It applies to all agreements if they are current,( i think also if they are defaulted and terminated(arguable)), as long as they are regulated which is why the ones executed before 2008 would have to be below 25K.

I believe that this only applies to NR accounts where the account number is not in a 16 digit format, if that helps.

Cheers GT, My is current and regulated under cca 1974 and under £10k and executed before 2008 but it does have a 16 digit number, so I'm unsure really if it applies.

looks like the correct wording only came into effect 01.10.08 so unsure if applies to executed agreements prior or not.

Looking at my statements from Feb 09 to date the wording is wrong and has the words below added or missing:

The Consumer Credit (Information Requirements and Duration of Licences and Charges) Regulations 2007

PART 2 FORMS OF WORDING TO BE INCLUDED IN STATEMENTS RELATING TO FIXED-SUM CREDIT AGREEMENTS
4. Each of the following forms of wording shall be contained in a statement under this Part:
“Settling your credit agreement early
You can settle this agreement at any time by giving us notice in writing and paying off the amount you owe. If you wish to settle early you should contact us for a final settlement figure.”;
“Dispute resolution
If you have a problem with your agreement, please try to resolve it with us in the first instance. If you are not happy with the way in which we handled your complaint or the result, you may be able to complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If you do not take up your problem with us first you will not be entitled to complain to the Ombudsman. We can provide you with details of how to contact the Ombudsman.”;
“Paying less than the agreed sum:
If you pay less than your agreed payment in most cases it is likely to take you longer and may cost you more to pay off the debt under the agreement.
If you have difficulties in making payments under your credit agreement please contact us if you have not already done so to discuss terms for the rest of the agreement. You may also want to seek advice on what to do from an independent free advice agency such as the Citizens Advice Bureau.”.

Don't know where I stand with that really...

[gravytrain]

Re: Northern Rock v UltimateWorrier

As far as the NRAM are concerned 16 digit account statements are compliant unfortunately(see below)

The need for compliant statements will only apply after 2008 it seems.( whenever executed)

This is virgin territory so it may be that there are other areas open to compliance challenges regarding the regulations.


"Please note - if you hold an unsecured personal loan with a 16 digit account number, we can confirm you are NOT affected by this issue. Our review has determined that the communications sent to you during the term of your loan did follow the exact format set out in the CCA."

Important information about NRAM CCA regulated loans - NRAM

[UltimateWorrie]

Re: Northern Rock v UltimateWorrier

As far as the NRAM are concerned 16 digit account statements are compliant unfortunately(see below)

The need for compliant statements will only apply after 2008 it seems.( whenever executed)

This is virgin territory so it may be that there are other areas open to compliance challenges regarding the regulations.


"Please note - if you hold an unsecured personal loan with a 16 digit account number, we can confirm you are NOT affected by this issue. Our review has determined that the communications sent to you during the term of your loan did follow the exact format set out in the CCA."

Important information about NRAM CCA regulated loans - NRAM

Cheers GT. Just reading the link now. I'm not convinced what they're saying is correct tbh. I have a 16 digit number, it is covered by the CCA and was taken out prior to April 2008 and I have received statements with incorrect wording. So they are contradicting themselves.

It's ambiguous as they say: "In the case of loans taken out before 6 April 2008, it only applies where the amount we agreed to lend you (the amount of credit) was £25,000 or less." yes

then they say: "If your loan is CCA regulated, this does not necessarily mean that you will be affected by this issue. This will depend on whether you have been sent any communications that did not comply with all the requirements prescribed by the CCA."

and then:
"Please note - if you hold an unsecured personal loan with a 16 digit account number, we can confirm you are NOT affected by this issue. Our review has determined that the communications sent to you during the term of your loan did follow the exact format set out in the CCA." no see above

As I pointed out on all my statements the correct wording pursuant to The Consumer Credit (Information Requirements and Duration of Licences and Charges) Regulations 2007 Schedule 1 PART 1 is bob on correct But Schedule 1 PART 2 doesn't have the correct wording as shown above on ALL my statements to date.

I'm just not sure whether I'm covered by this act, or how relevant it really is. I really need to find "all the requirements prescribed by the CCA" but would this be the 1974 act only?? (and not updated ones?? as it the regulation above) . don't think there's much mileage in it only might save a bit of interest.

[UltimateWorrie]

Re: Northern Rock v UltimateWorrier

For those interested, been meaning to say: received a MH chaser over Xmas stating a new o/s balance (reduced by just over £2200), not bad eh? Doesn't actually help me much and received absolutely no letter or explanations about it either, but worth saying. Didn't do anything to request it and apparently I wasn't "supposed" to fit in with the errors, but I ain't complaining.

Still waiting for by CCA response too.

[UltimateWorrie]

Re: Northern Rock v UltimateWorrier

So received my CCA response. It is 1 sheet of a copy of the CCA. I was wondering if there was anything else that is supposed to be supplied or is that it. It's a Fixed Term Loan. (Niddy's already confirmed it's enforceable, although it does state £30-35 fees would be payable)...

Also cover letter states here's a copy of your agreement as requested. payment must be received in 7 days (and goes on to say different methods of paying). i just find that rather strange, no threats or "or elses" just that. Also the amount is back to the amount outstanding as if my above post didn't happen.

I'm gonna reply but just not too sure what I'm gonna say, still been paying my £1 as agreed, still have the letters saying so.

[gravytrain]

Re: Northern Rock v UltimateWorrier

Cheers GT. Just reading the link now. I'm not convinced what they're saying is correct tbh. I have a 16 digit number, it is covered by the CCA and was taken out prior to April 2008 and I have received statements with incorrect wording. So they are contradicting themselves.

It's ambiguous as they say: "In the case of loans taken out before 6 April 2008, it only applies where the amount we agreed to lend you (the amount of credit) was £25,000 or less." yes

then they say: "If your loan is CCA regulated, this does not necessarily mean that you will be affected by this issue. This will depend on whether you have been sent any communications that did not comply with all the requirements prescribed by the CCA."

and then:
"Please note - if you hold an unsecured personal loan with a 16 digit account number, we can confirm you are NOT affected by this issue. Our review has determined that the communications sent to you during the term of your loan did follow the exact format set out in the CCA." no see above

As I pointed out on all my statements the correct wording pursuant to The Consumer Credit (Information Requirements and Duration of Licences and Charges) Regulations 2007 Schedule 1 PART 1 is bob on correct But Schedule 1 PART 2 doesn't have the correct wording as shown above on ALL my statements to date.

I'm just not sure whether I'm covered by this act, or how relevant it really is. I really need to find "all the requirements prescribed by the CCA" but would this be the 1974 act only?? (and not updated ones?? as it the regulation above) . don't think there's much mileage in it only might save a bit of interest.

Basically all they are saying is that only CCA agreements are covered by the new regulations regarding statements and that any agreements taken out before April 6 2008 and above £25k are not regulated by the CCA, so the refunds are not applicable.

Shame about you agreement being enforceable, if there are fees they should be included within the TCC of course and the APR should reflect this, I am sure that Niddy would have checked the figures for you.
I think they should also give an up-to date statement of account along with your agreement on a copy request although would have to look it up to be sure.

[UltimateWorrie]

Re: Northern Rock v UltimateWorrier

Basically all they are saying is that only CCA agreements are covered by the new regulations regarding statements and that any agreements taken out before April 6 2008 and above £25k are not regulated by the CCA, so the refunds are not applicable.

Shame about you agreement being enforceable, if there are fees they should be included within the TCC of course and the APR should reflect this, I am sure that Niddy would have checked the figures for you.
I think they should also give an up-to date statement of account along with your agreement on a copy request although would have to look it up to be sure.

Hi GT, Yes mine was pre-april 2008 but below £25k. Having said that it doesn't really change anything.

yeah is a shame it's enforceable.

Not too sure how to play this one yet. All my concentrations have been on credit cards and not fixed term loans. I think I'm gonna reply with something along the lines of "thanks for that, comments & payment details noted, as I already pay the agreed monthly amount directly to NR then I don't think they're necessary" see where that gets me! At the moment they are requesting the full amount and haven't even suggested a new monthly payment (only for me to call them to discuss, where I've already said writing only please..)..then keep negotiating until I'm in a position to offer them a decent F&F.

Does anyone know what happens when the end of the term arrives? (2016 for me).

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Northern Rock v UltimateWorrier

Not sure if this helps you or not but useful information besides.....

NR were the ONLY company I have contacted regularly by phone when I fell into arrears as I didn't want to play silly buggers with the mortgage. It paid off as the woman I spoke to let something slip that perhaps she shouldn't........

When I went through my I/E to discuss how I was going to pay my arrears the woman at NR initially rejected my payment plan as it didn't fit their 'criteria'. When I asked her what these criteria she explained that they are only allowed to authorize a payment plan where arrears are repaid withing 24 months.

Now as it happened my payment plan was £0.84 (I kid you not) short per month. There was no common sense applied at this point, just 'computer says no'. So I asked the woman to put the figures through again increasing the payment by £1/month and it was accepted.

So if you have arrears try dividing it by 24 and then rounding up a little if you want to propose a payment plan.

Otherwise your account will go through to their collections department, who, by all accounts, aren't quite as reasonable (!)

Best
SnV

[UltimateWorrie]

Re: Northern Rock v UltimateWorrier

Not sure if this helps you or not but useful information besides.....

NR were the ONLY company I have contacted regularly by phone when I fell into arrears as I didn't want to play silly buggers with the mortgage. It paid off as the woman I spoke to let something slip that perhaps she shouldn't........

When I went through my I/E to discuss how I was going to pay my arrears the woman at NR initially rejected my payment plan as it didn't fit their 'criteria'. When I asked her what these criteria she explained that they are only allowed to authorize a payment plan where arrears are repaid withing 24 months.

Now as it happened my payment plan was £0.84 (I kid you not) short per month. There was no common sense applied at this point, just 'computer says no'. So I asked the woman to put the figures through again increasing the payment by £1/month and it was accepted.

So if you have arrears try dividing it by 24 and then rounding up a little if you want to propose a payment plan.

Otherwise your account will go through to their collections department, who, by all accounts, aren't quite as reasonable (!)

Best
SnV

Cheers SnV, good to know that. It isn't linked to my mortgage or property in any way. I also couldn't afford the arrears/24mths payment. I guess you'd have to pay the normal monthly payment too on top otherwise you'd be forever in arrears.
Cheers pal