PRA for Barclaycard

[Floridajen]

Thank you

[Roger]

Thank you

Terse and minimal NOTHING that might be taken to admit the DEBT!

WRITE IN BOLD WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Retain scanned copies of anything you enter into any form! If you can't scan then use your MOB to take photo of each page!

Report back anything from PRA to AAD!

[Timewilltell]

Sounds as though PRA have a faulty printer and are sending these out like Christmas cards, apparently I have received one or something similar, won’t find out until tomorrow when I finally get home for a few days.
but rest assured if it looks remotely serious then I’ll be calling upon the experts to cast an eye for reassurance/guidance.

[PlanB]

I have received a follow up letter today. This is with forms asking how I’m going to pay etc also with an expenditure form.
the agreement date is 08.05.2001 this was passed to PRA in August 2015.

Any advice on which part of the form I should tick ?

I've found the history of this debt on your Diary thread which I've quoted below.

It's a Barclaycard from 2001 which has an unenforceable reconstituted credit agreement.

I see that as a good reason to tick Box D on the 'Letter of Claim' Reply Form to state that you dispute the debt, but don't tell them why in any detail.

Definitely don't fill in the Income & Expenditure section.

Original post here >

be gentle with me I am a newbie to this site

Debt 1

• Type of account (credit card/loan) Barclaycard
• Date commenced (ideally before Apr 2007) ???
• Approx balance. Approx 7000
• Date last paid (approximate date you last made a FULL payment) 2013
• Are you on arrangement or not paying. Was paying Stepchange till June 2018
• Status (default/in arrears/up-to-date) Default
• Account owner (who is writing to you, a DCA or the lender. DCA. PRA group

2013
statement received paid minimum payment
statement received nil paid
letter received stating they didn't receive payment

2014
statement received stating payment received via Stepchange
same every month for rest of year
letter sent advising situation not changed
letter received saying thank you for letter payments will stay same

2015
statement
statement
letter received section 87 (1)

2016
statement from PRA

2018
Stopped payments via Stepchange want to go Self managed
May CCA request made
postal order sent back with letter stating account on hold
?????? letter from PRA stating unenforceable
letter received stating enclosed copy docs as requested. Received reconstituted copy, terms and conditions and a copy statement.


I emailed Niddy who advises unenforceable

I can also see that although you stopped making contractual payments in 2013, you weren't sent a Default Notice until 2015 so that may cause them a problem too.

If you ignore the 'Letter of Claim' they will issue legal proceedings.


Di

[Floridajen]

Thanks Di, what do you recommend I do

[Warwick65]

I realise you don’t know me from Adam and by the looks of it know Di much better.However the ‘stock answer’ is to tick box D - I dispute the debt and ask for the agreement, the default notice, the notice of assignment, the deed of assignment and finally a full statement of account.

The idea is to give you the choices if they do or do not come up with the goods.

I had a claim for 5k and did this, it took them a year to issue the claim but if I’d not taken my eye off the ball it might never have happened. They never did provide the default notice or deed of assignment.

[Floridajen]

Sorry what do you mean I don’t know you from Adam or Di ?

[The Tech Clerk]

figure of speech i.e.: you may not know me but you can trust me type (Lingo) :-

??????If you say that you don't know someone from Adam, you mean that you don't know them at all and don't know who they are. We can use this phrase for men and women, though for a woman we might say something like don't know someone from Eve/Adam's wife: Why would I let him stay in my house?

[Floridajen]

Ah no worries thanks

[Warwick65]

Thanks Tech Clerk.
I was saying you don’t know me but you can trust me. Also having read your thread you have spoken to Di (Plan B) quite lot.

[Roger]

..However the ‘stock answer’ is to tick box D - I dispute the debt and ask for the agreement, the default notice, the notice of assignment, the deed of assignment and finally a full statement of account.

I notice you omit the
Termination Notice
from the documents you ask for!

Now my own experience here is this is the Termination Notice has proven to be crucially important! The classic mistake is assigning a debt before the final date included in the default notice. Terminating before the remedial date!
DCA's cannot open closed accounts! They don't issue credit cards do they, provide current accounts etc.. They are NOT Bankers

The other experience is issuing a Default Notice after the account has already been Terminated!

[Warwick65]

Good point. I think I was using the docs asked for in the LBA template.

Interesting when you look at some DCA permissions these days, it does look as if they have the rights to run accounts but I would need to look into that more closely.

[Roger]

Good point. I think I was using the docs asked for in the LBA template.

Interesting when you look at some DCA permissions these days, it does look as if they have the rights to run accounts but I would need to look into that more closely.

Just to add to what is an interest discussion that is also helpful to AAD.
Now BANKERS report to Central Banks and hence we know the Money supply, Deposits, Debts and indeed whether the Banks are being properly run. Consider this Debts are written OFF in other words no longer exist as far as the Central Banks / Governments are concerned. Remember they are given Tax relief on Bad Debts. Which raises the question as to what legal loophole is permitting DCA's for claiming the whole face value of Debts without presumably reporting this to Central Banks/ Governments.

Bad Debts are a Banking Risk! For which Banks are expected to act responsibly.
DCA's their Assets are Bad Debts BUT these on paper values no longer exist!

Remember the Consumer Debtor currently is penalised for 5/6 years, in some cases Bankrupted. Being Un Creditworthy is a very harsh in a increasingly cashless Society!

Sometimes the Debtor is to blame but other times sic Banking Crisis they are victims of bad lending.

[PlanB]

Thanks Di, what do you recommend I do

My personal suggestion is the same as my original suggestion in post #34, which is tick Box D to say you dispute the debt, but don't say why you dispute it, and definitely don't include any documents such as that letter from PRA admitting the debt is unenforceable. Keep that diamond up your sleeve for a later date in case you need it (hopefully not).

Then go to Box I and ask for the documents which other posters have suggested in posts #23 and #41

Don't complete and send back the I & E pages since that information can be used for them to decide 'what you're worth' and whether it's worth their while issuing legal proceedings to get their money.

Less is more at this stage.

If Aktiv Kapital were part of the assignment chain then PRA may have a problem which was one of the reasons why they lost there claim against me explained here >

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGNMENT PROVED”


So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

Di