Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

[Angry Cat]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

Bill, gave me a 'heads up' about your claim Tuttsi!

I too, am also in the process of attempting to reclaim the premiums + that I was mis-sold by Sentinel/Tesco Personal Finance (TPF) in 1999.

Recently, I received two communications from Sentinel:

1.
"I have received a response from Sentinel passing the buck to Tesco!

"We are setting up a compensation scheme to cover the sale and renewal of policies since 14 January 2005:
www.aischeme.co.uk

However, your complaint relates to the sale and renewal of a product prior to 14 January 2005, which is not a part of the compensation scheme. As a result, the product is not covered by the scheme and the complaint will be forwarded to Tesco to investigate. This is the company you bought the product from, or who introduced you to Al."

2.
Another letter today (Friday) dated 25 February 2015. But this time from:
Mark Andrews, A1 Scheme Limited.
Letter is the same as above;
YOUR COMPLAINT REGARDING THE AFFINION COMPENSATION SCHEME;
my complaint has been sent to Tesco.

Note, my Tesco Card at the time of sale was part of RBS; an affinity Card.
RBS did subscribe to both the ABI and GISC codes of conduct re: the selling of General Insurance.
IMHO though, it is Affinion who was responsible as they were paid the moula and TPF were paid a commission by Affinion..."

My feeling is that Sentinel should be repaying the monies, as they were paid the money; Tesco were just the intermediary/agent.
And the A1 scheme has not even been set up yet; it doesn't yet exist!

Looks like this may go the same way as the MBNA PPI fiasco:
hundreds of thousands of consumers cheated out of monies owed...wake up FCA.

[Tuttsi]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

AC I fully agree with you, but it was in our cases the credit card companies which took the money from our accounts and therefore they did not just act as the middle man taking their cut of the commission no doubt, I never had any direct contact with Sentinel. What's more I do not remember agreeing to this extra insurance, if I was as savvy as we are today with our computer technologies I would have known that what was on offer was covered by the credit card in any event. Other items that were covered we have on our home insurance and travel insurance. So basically, I /we have been paying for no apparent reason.

I know the scheme has not yet been set up but the principle of the fact that this insurance was fraudulently taken from our accounts and I am working to find a way to get it all back with Compound interest if I can.

It would be good to work together on this one with Bill AC.
Tutts xx

Bill, gave me a 'heads up' about your claim Tuttsi!

I too, am also in the process of attempting to reclaim the premiums + that I was mis-sold by Sentinel/Tesco Personal Finance (TPF) in 1999.

Recently, I received two communications from Sentinel:

1.
"I have received a response from Sentinel passing the buck to Tesco!

"We are setting up a compensation scheme to cover the sale and renewal of policies since 14 January 2005:
www.aischeme.co.uk

However, your complaint relates to the sale and renewal of a product prior to 14 January 2005, which is not a part of the compensation scheme. As a result, the product is not covered by the scheme and the complaint will be forwarded to Tesco to investigate. This is the company you bought the product from, or who introduced you to Al."

2.
Another letter today (Friday) dated 25 February 2015. But this time from:
Mark Andrews, A1 Scheme Limited.
Letter is the same as above;
YOUR COMPLAINT REGARDING THE AFFINION COMPENSATION SCHEME;
my complaint has been sent to Tesco.

Note, my Tesco Card at the time of sale was part of RBS; an affinity Card.
RBS did subscribe to both the ABI and GISC codes of conduct re: the selling of General Insurance.
IMHO though, it is Affinion who was responsible as they were paid the moula and TPF were paid a commission by Affinion..."

My feeling is that Sentinel should be repaying the monies, as they were paid the money; Tesco were just the intermediary/agent.
And the A1 scheme has not even been set up yet; it doesn't yet exist!

Looks like this may go the same way as the MBNA PPI fiasco:
hundreds of thousands of consumers cheated out of monies owed...wake up FCA.

[nanna58]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

Thank you Bill

[Bill-K]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

As regards the CPP refunds, I believe the principle is the same for both Tuttsi and AC, as the premiums were both charged to their credit cards, and then passed to the insurers (eg. Sentinel). These premiums increased the credit card balance owing each month, so account interest was charged by the lenders on this increasing portion of the balance. This interest was not passed to the insurers, and was retained by the lenders - so it has to be reclaimed from them in a similar way to PPI and/or default fees being reclaimed with interest. There are slight differences - but the principle is the same.

If you do start a claim (or claims) Tuttsi, don't forget to start a new thread for each claim, and post links to them here in this thread.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

AC I fully agree with you, but it was in our cases the credit card companies which took the money from our accounts and therefore they did not just act as the middle man taking their cut of the commission no doubt, I never had any direct contact with Sentinel. What's more I do not remember agreeing to this extra insurance, if I was as savvy as we are today with our computer technologies I would have known that what was on offer was covered by the credit card in any event. Other items that were covered we have on our home insurance and travel insurance. So basically, I /we have been paying for no apparent reason.

I know the scheme has not yet been set up but the principle of the fact that this insurance was fraudulently taken from our accounts and I am working to find a way to get it all back with Compound interest if I can.

It would be good to work together on this one with Bill AC.
Tutts xx

This matter is extremely interesting and I do hold all the original documents, including the Sentinel Card Protection policy issue 2000/2001, reminder of benefits and the TPF flyer promoting same...

All these years later one finds it difficult to comprehend how we all fell for this 'con' product!

Also, at the base of the 'Reminder of Benefits' is stated:

"We act on your behalf in arranging card insurance. One quarter of your subscription will be payable to the insurers as premium (inclusive of insurance premium tax), we retain the remainder for arranging this insurance for you."
The insurer was Cornhill Insurance PLC...

My Sentinel was paid to both Tesco and Morgan Stanley Dean Witter. Plus my OH was paying another Bank for same and I would have been covered under his. But factually, both were unnecessary and useless;
Good Game for the Banks et al

[Tuttsi]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

Will do Bill no probs xx

As regards the CPP refunds, I believe the principle is the same for both Tuttsi and AC, as the premiums were both charged to their credit cards, and then passed to the insurers (eg. Sentinel). These premiums increased the credit card balance owing each month, so account interest was charged by the lenders on this increasing portion of the balance. This interest was not passed to the insurers, and was retained by the lenders - so it has to be reclaimed from them in a similar way to PPI and/or default fees being reclaimed with interest. There are slight differences - but the principle is the same.

If you do start a claim (or claims) Tuttsi, don't forget to start a new thread for each claim, and post links to them here in this thread.

[Bill-K]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

This matter is extremely interesting and I do hold all the original documents, including the Sentinel Card Protection policy issue 2000/2001, reminder of benefits and the TPF flyer promoting same...
"Well done that man" - AC !!! Your filing system and abilities never seem to fail.
All these years later one finds it difficult to comprehend how we all fell for this 'con' product!
I think back then - we actually dared to put some trust in the finance industry, when they advertised themselves as "The Bank Manager in the Cupboard." The beast in the cellar is more like it - and it was finally discovered circa 2005, when us poor villagers stormed the castle with our pitchforks.
Also, at the base of the 'Reminder of Benefits' is stated:

"We act on your behalf in arranging card insurance. One quarter of your subscription will be payable to the insurers as premium (inclusive of insurance premium tax), we retain the remainder for arranging this insurance for you."
The insurer was Cornhill Insurance PLC...
That is an interesting bit of info, AC - and thank you for sharing it. So, it appears that the likes of CPP & Sentinel et al were effectively taking a 75% commission for selling us a product which wasn't even worth the measly 25% that was actually paid to the insurers eventually. Del Boy would have been well impressed ("We're in here, Trig - just play it cool...") - and I reckon even Boycie would have raised an eyebrow.
My Sentinel was paid to both Tesco and Morgan Stanley Dean Witter. Plus my OH was paying another Bank for same and I would have been covered under his. But factually, both were unnecessary and useless;
Good Game for the Banks et al
Yes indeedy, AC - "Good Game, Good Game" - with plenty of "Brucie Bonuses" !!!

I don't want to say too much at this stage, but the current indication I have is that the lenders are going to resist any claims for CPP-associated account interest tooth and claw (as if we ever thought otherwise !) - The jungle drums are saying that the lenders are likely to hide behind these 'Schemes of Arrangement,' and will attempt to use the 'Limitation Clauses' within these schemes to avoid their responsibilities.

We only have the CPP scheme to go on, as yet, but as I read it, these 'Schemes' are nothing whatsoever to do with the lenders - to the point where they are quite deliberately excluded from the whole process. There is NO mention of them in the Scheme T&C's, and there is NO mention of CPP-associated account interest either - and this is the central point of the scam, as I see it. They have clearly tried to exclude this CPP-associated account interest from the redress process by ignoring it completely - and have therefore totally excluded it from being mentioned anywhere within the Scheme T&C's. Therefore, any claim for a refund of associated account interest which has been charged on an unlawfully-missold product is not subject to the Scheme's T&C's, and it is not made under the Scheme. They can't have it both ways - but they are trying to, I reckon.

[Tuttsi]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

That does not surprise me at all Bill, look how the bank charges claims went belli up. I am pretty sure if we pitch it right and before the gold rush AC and I might have a head start at trying to break the ice.

I agree that the banks/credit card companies have been very greedy and sold a worthless piece of insurance, it covered their arses only and it was not for protection to the consumer. Yes you are right about us believing that everything they sold was for our own good, who knew that they were really scamming us.

I don't want to say too much at this stage, but the current indication I have is that the lenders are going to resist any claims for CPP-associated account interest tooth and claw (as if we ever thought otherwise !) - The jungle drums are saying that the lenders are likely to hide behind these 'Schemes of Arrangement,' and will attempt to use the 'Limitation Clauses' within these schemes to avoid their responsibilities.

We only have the CPP scheme to go on, as yet, but as I read it, these 'Schemes' are nothing whatsoever to do with the lenders - to the point where they are quite deliberately excluded from the whole process. There is NO mention of them in the Scheme T&C's, and there is NO mention of CPP-associated account interest either - and this is the central point of the scam, as I see it. They have clearly tried to exclude this CPP-associated account interest from the redress process by ignoring it completely - and have therefore totally excluded it from being mentioned anywhere within the Scheme T&C's. Therefore, any claim for a refund of associated account interest which has been charged on an unlawfully-missold product is not subject to the Scheme's T&C's, and it is not made under the Scheme. They can't have it both ways - but they are trying to, I reckon.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

Also, let us not lose sight of the fact that most people (in the early days) thought that they had to have the PPI and the Card Protection, or they would not be granted the credit!
In the case of the TPF credit card, an RBS affiliate card, both Card Protection and PPI were advertised on the application form pamphlet:

Card Protection covers you and your partner for your Tesco Visa Card and any other cards you may have. So if they're lost or stolen, you'll be protected against misuse...see box 7 of your application form.

The TPF/RBS PPI was advertised as: Cardholder Payment Protection (CPP): how confusing is that...
To apply, see box 7 of your application form.

We were mostly all like sheep when completing these application forms; there were no keys facts.
In reality we just went along with purchasing the PPI and the Card Protection. Because we thought that was what one should do.

[Tuttsi]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

Exactly that and we definitely did not have access to consumer forums in those days and believed if that's what we needed, as the banks told us we accepted the situation.


There must still be millions out there who do not use the computers and would not have a clue about these type of mis-sold ridiculous insurance products.

Also, let us not lose sight of the fact that most people (in the early days) thought that they had to have the PPI and the Card Protection, or they would not be granted the credit!
In the case of the TPF credit card, an RBS affiliate card, both Card Protection and PPI were advertised on the application form pamphlet:

Card Protection covers you and your partner for your Tesco Visa Card and any other cards you may have. So if they're lost or stolen, you'll be protected against misuse...see box 7 of your application form.

The TPF/RBS PPI was advertised as: Cardholder Payment Protection (CPP): how confusing is that...
To apply, see box 7 of your application form.

We were mostly all like sheep when completing these application forms; there were no keys facts.
In reality we just went along with purchasing the PPI and the Card Protection. Because we thought that was what one should do.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

Just for peeps information, I have just checked another Sentinel Card Protection policy, which is an earlier issue:1998/01

"This is a summary of the policy cover...
We act on your behalf in arranging card insurance. One quarter will be payable to the insurers as premium (inclusive of insurance premium tax), we retail the remainder for retaining the insurance for you.
This policy has been issued by Royal Sun Alliance Insurance plc (Registered Number #13792;
SW Broughton, Managing Director, Corporate Partnership Division."

So in short, Sentinel were paid the money, it is Sentinel who should be repaying same plus interest;
Not forgetting the the Bank involved; TPF/RBS in my case!

[Angry Cat]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

Exactly that and we definitely did not have access to consumer forums in those days and believed if that's what we needed, as the banks told us we accepted the situation.


There must still be millions out there who do not use the computers and would not have a clue about these type of mis-sold ridiculous insurance products.

Exactly my point!!!

[Tuttsi]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

As Bill stated in an earlier post the interest which accrued on the account for the amount taken would have attracted compounded interest, so as I see it although Sentinel will be responsible for paying back their portion plus 8%/ compounded interest and the bank are fully responsible I guess for the balance plus compounded interest as they benefited most out of this. The A1 scheme seems to just be featuring on Sentinel but there is definitely a larger picture emerging and the banks will have to take responsibility for fraudulently miss selling these unnecessary insurances.

AC you are amazing to have found the information which you have kept for a very long time. I am not sure if I can find my original documents, so I may send an SAR to the bank for they hold on me from inception including the insurance document T&C's. Before I do I will wait for Bill to confirm if this is the right course to take.


.

Just for peeps information, I have just checked another Sentinel Card Protection policy, which is an earlier issue:1998/01

"This is a summary of the policy cover...
We act on your behalf in arranging card insurance. One quarter will be payable to the insurers as premium (inclusive of insurance premium tax), we retail the remainder for retaining the insurance for you.
This policy has been issued by Royal Sun Alliance Insurance plc (Registered Number #13792;
SW Broughton, Managing Director, Corporate Partnership Division."

So in short, Sentinel were paid the money, it is Sentinel who should be repaying same plus interest;
Not forgetting the the Bank involved; TPF/RBS in my case!

[Bill-K]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

Indeed - as Tuttsi has said - those of us who use these forums have a chance of getting proper redress, but we are probably a tiny fraction of the huge number of people who have been ripped off and left without any idea how badly. With CPP, the mis-selling is undeniable - so there should be no need to have to prove this as we often had to do with PPI claims.

As AC has identified, it appears that the likes of Sentinel were acting as brokers, and the lenders were the sellers. In that case, it is the lenders who are most likely to have mis-sold the product, but the profits from this mis-selling are manifold !!!

The lender gets to charge account interest (at the contractual rate) on the accruing premiums - even though the premiums themselves are passed to the broker (Sentinel.)
The broker takes 75% of the premiums as their commission, and they then pass the remaining 25% to the underwriters.

This aspect seems to have been dealt with (citing the CPP Ltd. 'Scheme') - where these premiums are being refunded, along with 8% simple interest (not compound, Tuttsi !!!)
But the 'Scheme' does not mention the Associated Account Interest charged by the lenders - and this is where CPP claimants are being ripped off, IMO.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

As AC has identified, it appears that the likes of Sentinel were acting as brokers, and the lenders were the sellers. In that case, it is the lenders who are most likely to have mis-sold the product, but the profits from this mis-selling are manifold !!!

The lender gets to charge account interest (at the contractual rate) on the accruing premiums - even though the premiums themselves are passed to the broker (Sentinel.)
The broker takes 75% of the premiums as their commission, and they then pass the remaining 25% to the underwriters.

Absolutely shameful and I bet that not many people realise this...
In fact, I was talking to a colleague who was a Building Society Manager some years ago and told me the following:

It was standard industry practice that Banks & Building Societies made huge profits on this type of insurance and in many cases this covered the whole salary bill for the employees of these Banks & Building Societies!!!
Hundreds of thousands of consumers are being left out of pocket...