Help with Hoist Finance and Pre-Legal Assessment letter

[Night Monkey]

...your account is currently unenforceable, and we will proceed to remove entries regarding this account on your credit file.

I've never seen this reported here before, anyone know what's happening or different?

[The Tech Clerk]

yes sure there was a directive? stating if not proven by buyer they remove entry or similar words> try and find the ruling??

[Still Waving]

yes sure there was a directive? stating if not proven by buyer they remove entry or similar words> try and find the ruling??

This may have some relevance -
https://www.mortgagefinancegazette.c...le-10-11-2014/

[Roger]

This may have some relevance -
https://www.mortgagefinancegazette.c...le-10-11-2014/

Well a can of worms!
".. Blackhorse not only recorded a default on his credit file, but also added the costs of the failed court action onto the (now unenforceable) debt. .."
".. District Judge Newman (Grace & Anor v Blackhorse: Chester County Court) ruled a credit agreement ‘irredeemably unenforceable’ .."

I see also the argument of temporary unenforceability - while a CCA S.78 request remains unfulfilled.

[The Tech Clerk]

Well a can of worms!
".. Blackhorse not only recorded a default on his credit file, but also added the costs of the failed court action onto the (now unenforceable) debt. .."
".. District Judge Newman (Grace & Anor v Blackhorse: Chester County Court) ruled a credit agreement ‘irredeemably unenforceable’ .."

I see also the argument of temporary unenforceability - while a CCA S.78 request remains unfulfilled.

It has some binding then, ?

[The Tech Clerk]

Colin G Quinn may be able to give some opinion?

[Night Monkey]

I see also the argument of temporary unenforceability

Indeed. Presumably all the parasites will dig their heels in and say that ‘the documents may not be available now, but they might turn up...'

...or where the parties accept the agreement is unenforceable

I can't see that being an easy win . If only it was a case of writing one stroppy letter, but apart from anything else that would possibly restart the SB clock.

The last paragraph is interesting:

“This ruling may also open the door to challenge defaults recorded under credit agreements which are subject to temporary unenforceability such as through a failure to comply with s78 Consumer Credit Act 1974.”

I have been taken to court by PRA, who lost, so I think that is the one of my alleged debts most likely affected by this. However nice it would be for this to disappear now though it will anyway in a couple of years; it would be good to see a normal part of winning in court having a debt buyer forced to expunge the CRA record.

All very interesting though, and it does appear to turn the tide slightly in our favour.

[Still Waving]

Incredibly, this occurred around 2014 yet still seems largely unknown (to the consumers).

[Night Monkey]

...this occurred around 2014 yet still seems largely unknown (to the consumers).

Which is why it jumped out at me in the comment above; the standard advice has always been that while a debt is unenforceable it still exists and will continue to be reported to the CRAs. Unless things have changed since 2014 it does at least allow for the possibility of a bit of wiggle room if somebody were to push it.

[Roger]

@Colin G Quinn

See here
https://all-about-debt.co.uk/forum/d...87#post1544187

There is a UK Supreme Court authority Judgment which provides that a 'creditor' has a duty to ensure a credit agreement remains enforceable before continuing to report a default to the credit reference agencies.

So if they deem the agreement unenforceable, which it is in law as they can't comply with a statutory request, then they should not be reporting a default on your credit file until such a time that they believe the agreement to be enforceable.

[leaflet101]

I felt a quick update was required as I have received, in the last couple of days, a letter containing a note from both Hoist Finance and from Lowell. Essentially it is to say that "Hoist Finance UK Holdings 3 Limited" was acquired by the Lowell group and that my account was transferred to Lowell Portfolio I Ltd (LPI). The letter headed by Hoist Finance states that my legal rights will not be affected by this transfer, and it restates the same wording as the Hoist letter, that they have acquired Hoist, etc. The letter on the Lowell header also goes on to tell me "you're in control", "get in touch", "take the first step", the usual sort of thing. So it looks like Hoist have been bought out by Lowell. Interestingly, the Lowell letter now states that the "original company name" is Lloyds Banking Group PLC, where Hoist used to state the "previous creditor name" was Halifax. I believe Halifax are part of the Lloyds Banking Group so I guess that makes sense and doesn't change anything?

I'm sure that the onus is on them to pass on the relevant information about the debt being unenforceable up to this point, and that my CCA request was never fulfilled, etc., AND I am aware of the advice given a while back to simply maintain radio silence...

...but I just wanted to check, do I need to reply to Lowell to point out that the debt has an outstanding, unfulfilled CCA request and is unenforceable at the current time (I don't think I should, but I'm just checking). Do I need to let them know anything (I don't think I do) or is it for them to read the previous correspondence and get themselves updated on where the account is at? If they choose not to do so are they breaching any legal routes?

I'm just thinking they might call my bluff and pretend to not know anything about the unfulfilled CCA request with Hoist - although I am guessing that, as this was a legal process that was followed correctly and resulted in confirmation of the debt being (currently) unenforceable, they'd be very naughty if they did pretend not to know anything about it??

I think I already know the answers here - to ignore and maintain silence - but thought it was worth updating and asking. I am not familiar with the etiquette of a (currently) unenforceable debt being part of a debt company's sale and acquisition and if I have a duty to inform them of where we got up to previously (I don't think I do).

Many thanks


Type of account - HALIFAX current account
Date commenced - Account opened in Nov 2009
Approx balance - £5000 (around £4500 was authorised overdraft, the rest was unauthorised and was the spiralling that caused the situation at the time)
Date last paid - default recorded December 2017, no payments made since default
Are you on arrangement or not paying - not paying
Account owner - Lowell Portfolio I Ltd (LPI) (formerly Hoist Finance UK Holdings 3 Limited)

History
-------

10/08/2017 - Halifax: from Collections Centre stating that if I pay £130 the account will be up to date (amount is approx.)
04/09/2017 - Halifax: from Collections Centre stating that a payment of £460 is due on the account (amount is approx.)
07/09/2017 - Halifax: from Collections Centre stating that I haven't been in touch and asking to make contact, with note stating they have "stopped adding overdraft charges" as a concession to help me
13/09/2017 - Halifax: from Collections Centre, "formal demand" to pay off overdraft balance on current account
31/10/2017 - Halifax: warning that account will be closed in 30 days and transferred to recovery team
01/11/2017 - Halifax: warning that account will be closed in 30 days and transferred to recovery team (same as above - not sure why same letter was sent again the next day)
23/12/2017 - Halifax: we've instructed Wescot Credit Services Limited to arrange collection
30/12/2017 - Wescot Credit Services Limited: set up a payment plan
09/01/2018 - Wescot Credit Services Limited: "we know where you live", will continue to undertake activity
19/01/2018 - Wescot Credit Services Limited: discount offered (no amount specified)
28/04/2018 - Halifax: we've instructed Moorcroft Group to arrange collection
02/05/2018 - Moorcroft Debt Recovery Limited: asking to make contact
14/05/2018 - Moorcroft Debt Recovery Limited: warning of possible further action and asking to make contact
28/05/2018 - Moorcroft Debt Recovery Limited: monthly instalment offer (no amount specified)
11/06/2018 - Moorcroft Debt Recovery Limited: failed to make any payment, will return account to client
25/06/2018 - Moorcroft Debt Recovery Limited: failed to make any payment, will pass to our "Home Collections Division"
20/08/2018 - Moorcroft Debt Recovery Limited: discount offered (no amount specified)
03/09/2018 - Halifax: we've instructed Credit Security Limited to arrange collection
03/09/2018 - Credit Security Limited: notice of instruction, asking to make contact
11/09/2018 - Credit Security Limited: notice of further action, asking to make contact, set up a payment plan
21/09/2018 - Credit Security Limited: discount offered (no amount specified)
02/11/2018 - Halifax: statement of account
03/12/2018 - Credit Security Limited: final notice, will return account to client
07/03/2019 - Halifax: we've instructed Robinson Way to arrange collection
07/03/2019 - Robinson Way: asking to make contact
21/03/2019 - Robinson Way: set up a payment plan
06/04/2019 - Robinson Way: settlement available (no amount specified)
01/10/2019 - Halifax: statement of account
03/01/2020 - Halifax: notification that Bank of Scotland plc has assigned all rights, title and interest to Hoist Finance UK Holdings 3 Limited (HFUKH3L), stating "effective 28/11/2019"
03/01/2020 - Hoist Finance UK Holdings 3 Limited: same info as letter above from Halifax
03/01/2020 - Robinson Way: welcome letter confirming offer of 15% discount, stating they are "managing the account" for Hoist Finance UK Holdings 3 Limited
01/04/2020 - Robinson Way: discount offered (no amount specified, receive an "instant decision")
14/07/2020 - Robinson Way: asking to make contact
30/03/2021 - Hoist Finance UK: set up a payment plan
10/06/2021 - Hoist Finance UK: discount offered (approx 19% discounted)
21/07/2021 - Hoist Finance UK: warning that the debt is being reported on credit file, set up a payment plan
08/10/2021 - Hoist Finance UK: set up a payment plan
16/12/2021 - Hoist Finance UK: set up a payment plan
15/02/2022 - Hoist Finance UK: discount offered (20% discounted)
17/06/2022 - Hoist Finance UK: pre legal assessment, after 10 days your account may be transferred to Howard Cohen & Co. Solicitors without further notice, action may be started, could result in legal fees and costs being added
25/06/2022 - CCA request sent to Hoist Finance UK Holdings 3 Limited, along with £1 PO.
01/07/2022 - Reply from Hoist Finance UK (dated 29 June 2022) returning £1 PO as it's "no longer required" and confirming my CCA request. Account is on hold whilst they request the required documents.
06/07/2022 - Letter from The Hoist Finance Team (dated 1st July 2022) stating they may need to ask original lender for information to help them respond fully, and that they will contact with their response within 90 days from the letter date.
20/07/2022 - Letter from The Hoist Finance Team (dated 15th July 2022) enclosed with a pile of printed bank statements. Letter states they are still waiting for original creditor to send them credit agreement, and account is on hold until they receive a response from them.
06/08/2022 - Letter from The Hoist Finance Team (dated 1st August 2022) stating they have not received response from original creditor, they will continue seeking an update, and that all action on the account is on hold while they await a resolution.
10/08/2022 - Hoist Finance UK: set up a payment plan (dated 5th August 2022)
17/08/2022 - Hoist Finance UK: discount available on your account (dated 11th August 2022)
05/10/2022 - Hoist Finance UK: confirmation of unenforceable debt as they have not received required information from original creditor (dated 29th September 2022)
19/12/2022 - Letter from The Hoist Finance Team (dated 12th December 2022) stating that Hoist Finance UK Holdings 3 Limited was acquired by the Lowell group and the account was transferred to Lowell Portfolio I Ltd (LPI).
19/12/2022 - Letter from Lowell Portfolio I Ltd (dated 12th December 2022) stating that Hoist Finance UK Holdings 3 Limited was acquired by the Lowell group and the account was transferred to Lowell Portfolio I Ltd (LPI). Also inviting me to "take control", "take the first step", "manage my account online", etc.

[Pat]

I think at this point say nowt. Why tell them what’s wrong. If I’ve read this correctly you are in the final 12 months to SB. Drag it out, only respond if you have to.

[Still Waving]

I think I already know the answers here - to ignore and maintain silence - but thought it was worth updating and asking. I am not familiar with the etiquette of a (currently) unenforceable debt being part of a debt company's sale and acquisition and if I have a duty to inform them of where we got up to previously (I don't think I do).

Yes, you already know the answers. Just file and nothing more. There is no onus on you to do anything regarding their inter-company arrangements. Remain silent.

You are correct in updating your diary though, as this is pertinent info.

[Roger]

Well for your own records and purposes. Make a note of the following!
1/ Your CCA 78 plus £1 was with ".. Hoist Finance UK Holdings 3 Limited .." I do not know whether this company is or isn't FCA Compliant!
But any Assignment CHAIN creates potential problems!!!!

2/ But be aware of this (SWID ) Sold While In Dispute (because the prior Owner hasn't fulfilled your legal S.78 request!!!) It has been sold whilst in DISPUTE!
This automatically makes this now a DISPUTED ACCOUNT!

In the past AAD would have suggested send a SWID AAD Template Letter BUT I am not sure at this moment whether this is appropriate!
FOR the moment simply file BUT MAKE NOTE of this for your purposes!
DO NOT SEND A NEW S.78 request to the NEW Owner!

[leaflet101]

All advice is appreciated, many thanks.

I won't send anything to them, no new request, no SWID letter, nothing. If I get anything further that suggests they are playing games or trying to pretend they didn't know about the current unfulfilled CCA request or currently unenforceable status, I will update here